LGS/303SMLE

[BAM-BAM]

LGS has a nice SMLE .303 for sale on consignment for $325 IIRC.... only had a quick look Sat. so not sure on details.... but think it might be a No.4

May go back tomorrow

Thoughts......input welcome......

 

[M1Garandy]

IMO, more details are needed. That could be a bad deal, a fair price or a great deal depending on what is actually for sale.

 

[Stevie]

A No.4 MkI will have a barrel that protrudes a couple inches from the front of the stock and will have a bit of a barrel lug for bayonet attachment. Has a peep rear sight on the rear of receiver.

A No.1 MkIII will have a barrel that's about flush with the end of stock/front sight/front band assembly. Rear sight will be on the barrel.

A jungle carbine(No.5 MkI) of course is carbine length...shorter stock with cone flash-hider/bayo-lug...peep rear sight like a No.4 and is pretty much a carbine version of the No.4 MkI rifle.

Those are your most common Lee Enfields unless you're looking at something like a P14 or US M1917 rifle??

 

[BAM-BAM]

A No.4 MkI will have a barrel that protrudes a couple inches from the front of the stock and will have a bit of a barrel lug for bayonet attachment. Has a peep rear sight on the rear of receiver.

Looks like this one^^^^^^^ for sure on rear sight.... and barrel length.

On my way and only had a couple of minutes....... didn't really think on it till later..... thought I'd gather more info before going back......

 

[LVSteve]

The serial number on the back of the bolt handle should match the number on the receiver flat or on the "wrist". A truly matching gun will have the same serial on the underside of the stock towards the muzzle.

From the description it could be a:-

No4 Mk1
No4 Mk1* (same as a No4 Mk1 but has no bolt release device)
No4 Mk2 (same as a No4 Mk1 but trigger hinged on receiver, not the trigger guard)
No4 Mk1/2 (No4 Mk1 upgraded to Mk2 standard)
No4 Mk1/3 (No4 Mk1* upgraded to Mk2 standard)

Enfield No4 rifles were made in :-

UK factories:-
Fazakerley
Maltby
Birmingham Small Arms (BSA)

US Savage factory at Chicopee Falls.

Canadian factory at Long Branch

In Pakistan at Wah.

Barrel can have 2, 4, 5 or 6 groove rifling depending on original build state, date when produced and refurb history. 2-groove and 5-groove are the most common.

I think that covers it.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Thanks....... what about value....... I know tough question w/o pics and more details........ but some ideas of where to start! The gun looked really clean....

Know the shop pretty well so will be able to work with them..... but Know so little about SMLEs ......any and all guidance appreciated..

 

[shottist]

Price really depends on condition but $325 for a decent piece is not out of line in todays market. These rifles can be well used and abused veterans of several wars in several different countries or, occasionally an unissued, "mummy wrapped" No 4. Bore diameters can vary greatly with the most consistent usually found in the later production No 4s. These are fine old Battle Rifles many consider the best of both WW1 and WW2. Short range, (up to 500 yds.) accuracy is usually mediocre but acceptable. Long range accuracy, (800-1,000 yds.) can be superb. To paraphrase Napoleon "Condition, condition, tout la condition". The Jungle Carbines are handy and look cool but usually have problems holding zero. They are still capable of "minute of Deer" so long as you can tolerate the recoil and the sudden and inexplicable fliers. They are fun rifles, enjoy!

 

[LVSteve]

Values are all over the map depending on factory and condition. Savage rifles, even in mediocre condition, demand a premium as they are US made. Long Branch guns are very nice and the late UF 55 serialed Mk2 rifles are very well finished and can be mint. I have one still in the mummy wrap and they can be worth over $650. A worn/poorly finished 1943/44 Fazakerley with the simple two position flip sight and a 2-groove barrel is worth much less, maybe $175 to me.

Then there is the history aspect. I have a plain Jane looking Mk1 that was built in one UK factory and refurbished twice, once at each of the other factories. Don't see that every day.

 

[alwslate]

With any milsurp the bore condition is very important if you expect
to actually shoot it. Many people seem to buy a rifle based on the
external condition without even looking through the barrel. All of the
original ammo for these rifles had corrosive primers and it's hard to
find any milsurp with a nice bore unless they have been through an
arsenal rebuild. The Enfields that have been reconditioned will have
FTR stamped somewhere on the left side near the other markings.
FTR stands for Factory Through Repair. I had a Long Branch rifle with
the two groove barrel that keyholed with new noncorrosive military
ammo. I didn't keep it long.

 

[101Voodoo]

Here's a Faz No. 4 Mk2 and Lithgow No. 1 MkIII. And a BSA No.5 just for the heck of it.

 

[Arik]

With any milsurp the bore condition is very important if you expect
to actually shoot it. Many people seem to buy a rifle based on the
external condition without even looking through the barrel. All of the
original ammo for these rifles had corrosive primers and it's hard to
find any milsurp with a nice bore unless they have been through an
arsenal rebuild. The Enfields that have been reconditioned will have
FTR stamped somewhere on the left side near the other markings.
FTR stands for Factory Through Repair. I had a Long Branch rifle with
the two groove barrel that keyholed with new noncorrosive military
ammo. I didn't keep it long.

None of these guns are target bench rifles and you'd be surprised how much those barrels can handle. Half my surplus rifles have dark, dirty, pitted barrels that have fought in ww1, ww2, and many conflicts in between and after and still hit the target

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

MY SMLE with some of its safe mates:



An excellent all purpose rifle

 

[alwslate]

None of these guns are target bench rifles and you'd be surprised how much those barrels can handle. Half my surplus rifles have dark, dirty, pitted barrels that have fought in ww1, ww2, and many conflicts in between and after and still hit the target

Yeah and you'd be surprised just how poorly one can shoot
when it's finally given up the ghost. I bought an FN 98 Mauser
in 8mm from a friend for cheap several years ago because it
was in fairly poor condition. The bore was pitted, rusty and
worn so I put up a target on a piece of cardboard that was
about 2 ft square and fired a few rounds from about 20 yds to
see how it would group. I got a few random keyholes. It
wouldn't keep all shots on the 2 ft square at 20 yds. There
are lots of rifles for sale out there and I won't buy any with
pitted bores or barrels that have been counterbored. I have
a couple of 98 mausers with slight roughness in the grooves
that shoot pretty well but slight roughness is my limit for
buying.

 

[Arik]

Yeah and you'd be surprised just how poorly one can shoot
when it's finally given up the ghost. I bought an FN 98 Mauser
in 8mm from a friend for cheap several years ago because it
was in fairly poor condition. The bore was pitted, rusty and
worn so I put up a target on a piece of cardboard that was
about 2 ft square and fired a few rounds from about 20 yds to
see how it would group. I got a few random keyholes. It
wouldn't keep all shots on the 2 ft square at 20 yds. There
are lots of rifles for sale out there and I won't buy any with
pitted bores or barrels that have been counterbored. I have
a couple of 98 mausers with slight roughness in the grooves
that shoot pretty well but slight roughness is my limit for
buying.

I have 3 Enfields. 1899 falling block, 1918 SMLE and a No5. All 3 have perfect bores which I was surprised to find. They all shoot really well using PPU commercial ammo.

Also have 8 Mosins dating from 1897 to 1944. In different configurations. Carbines, M91, 91/30. Only 2 of those have mint barrels. Both Fin. All the M91 are Fin capture bit these 2 are Fin barreled. All other M91 are counter bored and dark. Aside from being used in ww1, they were captured by the Austrians, sold to the Fins, captured back by the Soviets probably around ww2. One was later sold to kingdom of Serbia and another one went to Bulgaria. These rifles were used....a lot. No doubt about that and yet they can still keep a solid center mass shot at 150 yards using PPU ammo. Reason for the PPU is its a control group. I have tons of 7.62x54 surplus but it's all different countries, different years of production and different lots. Even the same batch can have large variations and it's not always easy to tell if it's the rifle or the ammo. I'm not too concerned about them "giving up the ghost". Heavy used 100 year old rifles ......well I don't expect them to last forever. Besides, I shoot them once or twice a year, 50 - 100 rounds (i have emptied spam cans in an afternoon but thats rare). If they are still shooting center mass they'll be fine for a long time.

Of course there is nothing wrong with having a like new surplus rifle and I would love a none Bubba'd Gustav Mauser in 6.5x55 but the heavily used, dark, pitted, counter bored Mosins do just fine