LGS won't show take down on a gun?

[RobzGuns]

My LGSs and FFLs pretty much expect me to do a Field Strip before handing over my money/Accepting transfer, but they also know that it's pretty much a done deal and that I'm looking for defects before taking ownership of that particular firearm... Not just playing with it.

If it Field Strips differently from other pistols, I want to know how it works before I leave the shop, as I don't want to post a message on forums saying "I can't get my new {Fill In The Blank} Back together".
(Especially when I got my Ruger MKIII)

 

[N4KVE]

This why I don't buy display new guns unless there is a 10% discount for wear and tear.

This might be a problem for you, as the store didn't get a 10% discount on that gun. We always have plenty of inventory in stock, so it's rare that we sell the last of anything, but should I have to tell the customer that's the last of a particular model, there is no discount on it. Simple supply & demand. But it brings up an interesting story. A while back we got a shipment of Rock Island pistols. I opened a bunch to set out for display, & a particular 45 ACP compact felt ULTRA smooth when racking the slide. Over the next few weeks when people were interested in a compact 45, I would encourage them to rack the slide on this gun. It got quite a few sales. Finally after 3 weeks, I couldn't stand it any longer, & had to have it. My boss said to take one from inventory that was untouched, but I wanted THAT one which felt really good. So I grabbed the one from inventory, & guess what. It felt good, but not as good as the display model. So I took the gun that a hundred people handled over the 3 week period. It's not like anybody dripped ice cream on it, or took it apart. I shot it the next day, & couldn't be happier. It's smoother than any Kimber at 3 times the price. However, our store will allow a customer to dry fire a gun up to 2 times, they will allow the manager to take apart a used gun to check it out, they will not take apart a new gun as it has a warranty, and they will not discount a new floor model 10% as that's our profit margin on many guns. We barely make 8% profit on a Glock, so you won't get a 10% discount on the floor model. Sorry. GARY

 

[vipermd]

Tron: I guess I do not understand your problem/question? You are taking a Full size M&P 22 into trade for a Compact M&P 22-( You told this to the second clerk?), or that you were in earlier? What did you think he meant by standard M&P take down? Did you tell him that you never did take down on yours? Did you let him know that you wanted to trade/buy or did he believe you had never seen one, wanted to see it come apart and go back together for your amusement?
Any one who wants to purchase or purchases a firearm from me is instructed in operation,take down, cleaning whether they want it or not. You could have done 3 tours in the sandbox yet never used, fired a Sigma/M&P or you may do it faster and more efficiently than myself.
So back to the original question and post: If you walk in and ask me to field strip a {------}, my first question would be why? If you just want to know and I have a demo there and no customers, 9/10 times I will tear something down for you. So did he know why you were there? What were the exact words you said? Need more INFO Be Safe,

 

[ScrapmasterFlex]

"Avoid that guy [and place] like the plague" is pretty much the line of the day in this thread.

 

[ch3no2]

First off I don't believe that a field strip will make a gun used. Using that logic racking the slide, pulling the trigger or dry firing it will also make a new gun used used.

On your part you should check out some YouTube videos on how to field strip and clean it before you make the trade. I know it's not hands on experience but it should help you become knowledgeable about the process. Then go discuss it with the salesman. Make sure he/she understands you are a serious buyer. If he/she won't let you do it have them at least describe the process and question them on any issues/problems you might incur. Could also let you know their knowledge vs BS level. They also might not know how but hopefully they would tell you that.

Not familiar with the handgun being discussed but as others have stated there are guns that can be broken down and reassembled in a minute and there are others that take an act of God to get back together. That is a definite factor to consider.

Really, the bottom line is your comfort level. Is this the person/store you trust and want to do business with. If so, go for it. If not, keep looking.

BTW, I learned that gun stores are really playgrounds for many adults. I've seen them do bizarre things with the display models. The chain stores especially rarely say anything so they don't offend the customer and lose any future business. For a new gun I will not take a display model. If they don't have one New In Box I'll have them order one, go somewhere else or just wait. But that's me personally.

As far a used gun I would not even consider a purchase without a look at its internals for integrity (rust, broken/bent parts, idiot with a Dremel tool who polished the feed ramp to death, ect). You can bet money on the fact that that they are going to take your trade-in apart to check it out before they commit to taking it so shouldn't you have the same opportunity if you are buying used. If not, walk away.

 

[Muss Muggins]

First off I don't believe that a field strip will make a gun used. Using that logic racking the slide, pulling the trigger or dry firing it will also make a new gun used used.

On your part you should check out some YouTube videos on how to field strip and clean it before you make the trade. I know it's not hands on experience but it should help you become knowledgeable about the process. Then go discuss it with the salesman. Make sure he/she understands you are a serious buyer. If he/she won't let you do it have them at least describe the process and question them on any issues/problems you might incur. Could also let you know their knowledge vs BS level. They also might not know how but hopefully they would tell you that.

Not familiar with the handgun being discussed but as others have stated there are guns that can be broken down and reassembled in a minute and there are others that take an act of God to get back together. That is a definite factor to consider.

Really, the bottom line is your comfort level. Is this the person/store you trust and want to do business with. If so, go for it. If not, keep looking.

BTW, I learned that gun stores are really playgrounds for many adults. I've seen them do bizarre things with the display models. The chain stores especially rarely say anything so they don't offend the customer and lose any future business. For a new gun I will not take a display model. If they don't have one New In Box I'll have them order one, go somewhere else or just wait. But that's me personally.

As far a used gun I would not even consider a purchase without a look at its internals for integrity (rust, broken/bent parts, idiot with a Dremel tool who polished the feed ramp to death, ect). You can bet money on the fact that that they are going to take your trade-in apart to check it out before they commit to taking it so shouldn't you have the same opportunity if you are buying used. If not, walk away.

SSSSooooooo . . . You won't take a display model, but you're okay with screwing with a gun that somebody is trying to sell . . . Have you considered that if a LGS or other seller has to have a real gun available for everybody to play with for every model that they're trying to sell, prices might be a little higher than you're used to?

Here's the conversation that goes with your line of thinking for a new gun. I understand looking at a used gun with a higher degree of scrutiny, because that's the only one . . . I'd like to screw with this new gun on your shelf as much as I want. I won't buy this gun, but I want to work the action, pull the trigger, and take it apart. I want one that nobody has screwed with, because you should sell me a new gun, even though the one on the shelf is new. I don't understand why you need to have two guns in stock to sell me one, and I don't care. Why is this gun so expensive?

 

[Rastoff]

I recently picked up a rugher 22/45 and asked to see the take down, and the guy said no.

While the Mark I, II, III guns are notoriously difficult to field strip, they're not that hard. If the instructions in the manual are followed, it's fairly easy. If you're like most guys and deign to read the manual, it's easy to get wrong. Still, if it were my store, I'd take it down for you.


Many comments have been made like, "I'd never shop in that store!" Y'all have no clue what it takes to run a gun store.

Here's why gun stores won't allow a customer to field strip a gun:

Would you buy a gun with this scratch on it? No, you wouldn't. Or you'd ask for a discount. If a customer put a scratch on it, the store just lost pretty much all their profit on that gun.

You see, gun stores make very little on guns. Most stores make their money on accessories. So, before you bash a store for a particular policy, understand what the consequences are of what you're asking.

 

[Trons]

First off I don't believe that a field strip will make a gun used. Using that logic racking the slide, pulling the trigger or dry firing it will also make a new gun used used.

On your part you should check out some YouTube videos on how to field strip and clean it before you make the trade. I know it's not hands on experience but it should help you become knowledgeable about the process. Then go discuss it with the salesman. Make sure he/she understands you are a serious buyer. If he/she won't let you do it have them at least describe the process and question them on any issues/problems you might incur. Could also let you know their knowledge vs BS level. They also might not know how but hopefully they would tell you that.

Not familiar with the handgun being discussed but as others have stated there are guns that can be broken down and reassembled in a minute and there are others that take an act of God to get back together. That is a definite factor to consider.

Really, the bottom line is your comfort level. Is this the person/store you trust and want to do business with. If so, go for it. If not, keep looking.

BTW, I learned that gun stores are really playgrounds for many adults. I've seen them do bizarre things with the display models. The chain stores especially rarely say anything so they don't offend the customer and lose any future business. For a new gun I will not take a display model. If they don't have one New In Box I'll have them order one, go somewhere else or just wait. But that's me personally.

As far a used gun I would not even consider a purchase without a look at its internals for integrity (rust, broken/bent parts, idiot with a Dremel tool who polished the feed ramp to death, ect). You can bet money on the fact that that they are going to take your trade-in apart to check it out before they commit to taking it so shouldn't you have the same opportunity if you are buying used. If not, walk away.

Interesting concept, however, because this is a new gun, there have not been a lot of video's posted on it. There is one, that I found, that has the take down, which is not "standard" for an M&P because you have to flip the lever down, then lift the rear of the slide up and bring it forward. It is "similar" to the current M&P .22 (FS) but in that one, you have to pull the take down lever out, and apparently, on the compact, you don't.

My point, to be succinct, was, does field stripping a new weapon make it used. the consensus seems to be that it does not, with respect to a few instances where they weren't able to put it back together. regardless, my LGS lost this sale based on that and I'll never go back there. IMO, there is no reason he shouldn't have just said "it's like this." and did the 10 sec demonstration.

 

[N4KVE]

And possibly scratch the gun like the 1911 shown above. You can strip it all you want when you take it home. GARY

 

[Ranger17]

as someone still newer to handguns; while i can fully understand a store not allowing every single person at the counter to take down a particular gun, if i was not familiar with a model i truly was interested in purchasing at that store i would ask for and "expect" at minimum them to show me how it all works.

That said, i wouldn't expect anything if my intention was already set at buying something online and i was only window shopping to use a dealer for some in-hand time. And if i have friends/family who can show me around something and make any needed recommendations then i'm fine with getting something i didn't get a full walk-thru on beforehand.

 

[78Staff]

It's interesting, both LGS's I frequent - when I ask if I can take down a gun, both state "as long as you know how to re-assemble it". I thought it was odd, especially two different stores. I infer from that if the customer does not know how, then they won't let them take it down, nor will they show them - although they don't explicitly say that. Anyway, last time at each shop - I bought one of the guns, one I didn't, if that's relevant.

I don't know that I feel the need to take down a new gun - usually I've researched something thoroughly before heading into and LGS, but for sure I would want to for a used one. Come to think of it, both of these were used guns, so maybe it's a used gun policy - they may not let you take down new ones at all. Next time I'm in I might test the theory .

 

[blujax01]

How many times have I read a thread in this forum, or the revolver forum, or the rifle forum where the poster has taken micro photos of his weapon showing minute scratches and received a chorus of "make them take it back - new means unmolested."

If you have purchased the gun, then we will show you how to break it down. But we're not disassembling new pistols any more than the Ford dealer will show you how to do an oil change on the new Mustang sitting in the showroom.

 

[hoc9sw]

78Staff,

From your comment, I suspect you are a known patron of your LGS. I am as well a frequent customer of my LGS. They have a NO DIS-ASSEMBLY rule, but they let me go in the classroom to do that. But they know I can figure it out, and that if I broke it, I would buy it.

 

[Kanewpadle]

How many times have I read a thread in this forum, or the revolver forum, or the rifle forum where the poster has taken micro photos of his weapon showing minute scratches and received a chorus of "make them take it back - new means unmolested."

If you have purchased the gun, then we will show you how to break it down. But we're not disassembling new pistols any more than the Ford dealer will show you how to do an oil change on the new Mustang sitting in the showroom.

My sentiments exactly. Every new firearm has a manual which illustrates how to disassemble a gun. To me, this is a non issue. Buy the gun and get over it.

 

[ch3no2]

SSSSooooooo . . . You won't take a display model, but you're okay with screwing with a gun that somebody is trying to sell . . . Have you considered that if a LGS or other seller has to have a real gun available for everybody to play with for every model that they're trying to sell, prices might be a little higher than you're used to?

I understand your point and I do agree with it. I browse the gun cases from time to time but only look at guns when I am serious about buying, and then only after research and review online. I don't have them them take every gun out of the case for me to play with, only the one I am interested in. I check it out for fit, check out the sighting system, control setup (visually and feel) and with permission (yes I do ask permission) will rack it once, maybe twice, to get a feel for the action. Beyond that I discuss tear down, maintenance and whatever else with the salesman.

The point I was hoping to make was I have watched multiple people abuse display guns on many occasions. I like to know that what I am paying full price for has not been dropped on the floor, stuck in someones pocket along with their keys, slid across the glass counter top, taken apart and put together wrong while they figure it out what their doing, stacked on other guns, etc.

As I said I feel that gun stores seem to be like a playground to some people and depending on the store and the salesmen the display units can have a hard life and sometimes take a terrible beating.

I try to treat the few guns I look at with respect but I have no idea or control how any of the previous people have handled it. I actually just purchased a new gun a few weeks back at my LGS. All they had was the display model which had a couple a decent sized scratches and had some of the finish missing from the back of the rear sight. Even my 20+ year old Taurus with several thousand rounds was in better shape cosmetically. I paid an extra fee to get a new one shipped in. I don't expect that type of service for free. I am realistic.

I may seem like an a-hole for wanting a non-display gun but I do like to know its history and that it hasn't been abused. I guess this stems from having to deal with a display unit I bought that required multiple trips to the vendor who could never get it to work correctly. Don't know if this was actually related to it being a display model or not but it was really frustrating, time consuming, irritating, and wasted a lot of range time and ammo. Don't want to do that again. I'd rather pay a bit extra and have 1 less potential issue that might need to be addressed.

 

[Rastoff]

If the gun is new, I don't need to see it field stripped. If it's used, I wouldn't buy it if I couldn't do a field strip.

 

[fdw]

I've never had a problem with any gun shop taking one down.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Do any of you guys ask a car dealer to show you how to use the jack and change a tire, put it up on the rack and check the fluids and lube fittings when buying a new car?

If you are buying a new power tool at Lowes or Home Depot do you take it out of the box and inspect it. (granted they have display models for you to "play with")


I've asked for and been given the opportunity to read the manual that comes with a new gun.... which usually covers field stripping and cleaning.

 

[uncleted327]

Sorry but all the car dealer references don't hold water. Do you buy a car without taking it for a test drive first? No, you don't. If you test drive a car and then don't buy it does it become a used car? No, it doesn't, no more than taking the slide off a new gun somehow makes it into a used gun. If I want to examine the underside of a slide or the inside of a frame before I pay out potentially a $1000+ then I should be able to. If you don't allow that at your shop that's fine, it's your prerogative, it's also mine to not give you my business.

 

[MichiganScott]

Funny. Having owned a fairly large number of guns over the years, it has never occurred to me to field strip one prior to buying. I do ask to check the trigger, and look down the barrel, but you can verify function without field stripping.

The three guns I've purchased that were defective were taken care of by the shop. One rifle had a oval chamber, one rifle went full auto, and a 642 would not lock up correctly. None of these defects could have been found by stripping the guns.