Life in Prison or Execution?

[Rastoff]

I used to be opposed to the death penalty.

Then, somebody asked me if I would go back in time and execute Hitler, given the opportunity.

Of course I would. Wouldn't you?

It's not a reasonable comparison. Hitler was the cause of millions of deaths. If we knew in advance what he was going to cause, we all would have taken steps to prevent it.

However, since you brought it up, did he ever personally kill anyone? Sure, through association, just like Manson, but did he pull the trigger himself? Would that change anything?

 

[ClayCow]

Well if i had it my way. Hitler would live in solitary confinement the rest if his life. I truly see it more torturous than death.

 

[Gamecock]

Interesting way to put it considering the many posts in this thread that demonstrate it is more expensive to sentence a person to death.

Unless of course you meant you voted for life in prison.

"More expensive" numbers are phony. Produced by advocates. As I said earlier, they include cost of incarceration during appeal, when obviously they would have incarceration cost if the perp were just sentenced to prison.

Someone above said it costs a hundred grand a year to lock 'em up. Using that number, it would cost $4 million to lock 'em up for 40 years. Perhaps we should execute those under 65 only. If it's just about the money.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

No, I don't believe that for one second. I have a lot of training and experience in process improvement. I was on a full time process improvement team. In every situation where we were given the authority to actually make changes, we reduced process time by at least 75%.

The problem is that most people hate the word "change" more than they hate their clumsy system or having to wait. Everyone wants the court system to move faster. No one is willing to take on the system to improve it. Further, even when the potential change shows massive savings, in one case $13M, they still don't want to change it.

Our team offered to work free of charge. Our salaries would be solely based on the savings we brought to the organization. We were willing to accept payment of 10% of the actual savings for our pay. They wouldn't let us do that. Even so, at the end of a year, had we been allowed to actually do the salary deal, we would have received a raise so high we could all have retired because we saved so much money. The sad part is we weren't allowed to implement any of it. In the end, it was a waste of time.

I guarantee that I could take that 15-20 year process and cut it down to less than 7 years. I'm 90% sure I could cut it to less than 5 years, but would have to analyze the process first.

One more guarantee; once I made my proposed improvements, 99% of the people involved in the process wouldn't like it at first. If allowed to actually implement it, 80% would eventually see the value and embrace it. The rest will grumble no matter what.

I could do that as well if not for those pesky little "Due Process" amendments that keep getting in the way It is NOT a purely mechanical process. But I'd love to know how you'd propose doing it.

 

[ClayCow]

"More expensive" numbers are phony. Produced by advocates. As I said earlier, they include cost of incarceration during appeal, when obviously they would have incarceration cost if the perp were just sentenced to prison.

Someone above said it costs a hundred grand a year to lock 'em up. Using that number, it would cost $4 million to lock 'em up for 40 years. Perhaps we should execute those under 65 only. If it's just about the money.

Im not sure how you can separate the incarceration costs from the total cost. It wouldnt make sense. If you did that you would only have the difference in how much more it would cost for death row. Still costs more just different number to show it

 

[Comrad]

Interesting way to put it considering the many posts in this thread that demonstrate it is more expensive to sentence a person to death.

Unless of course you meant you voted for life in prison.

I didn't take into account the endless appeals. I don't think the death penalty intended a life spent on death row. In this country we're all entitled to a speedy trial and as far as I am concerned a speedy execution as well.

There's no doubt that the Boston Marathon bomber is guilty and sentenced to death. What's to appeal here, he should have not lasted a week after sentencing but will probably clog up the courts for decades.

 

[Shark Bait]

I prefer to think of the death penalty as retroactive abortion. They had their chance to make something of themselves and blew it. I've known plenty of people who had bad childhoods and they prevailed. The "bad childhood" excuse is just another attempt to avoid accountability.

 

[ClayCow]

I didn't take into account the endless appeals. I don't think the death penalty intended a life spent on death row. In this country we're all entitled to a speedy trial and as far as I am concerned a speedy execution as well.

There's no doubt that the Boston Marathon bomber is guilty and sentenced to death. What's to appeal here, he should have not lasted a week after sentencing but will probably clog up the courts for decades.

Im pretty sure all americans can agree. But by circumventing due process here will create precedence for future cases and whats to stop it from trickling all the way down to every case? Its the price of our innocent until proven guilty

 

[Gamecock]

Im pretty sure all americans can agree. But by circumventing due process here will create precedence for future cases and whats to stop it from trickling all the way down to every case? Its the price of our innocent until proven guilty

15 years isn't due process.

 

[ClayCow]

15 years isn't due process.

Youre looking at it wrong gamecock. The length of time isnt the due process, its the process. And the process takes 15 years.

 

[Gamecock]

Youre looking at it wrong gamecock. The length of time isnt the due process, its the process. And the process takes 15 years.

The process takes 15 years because we allow it to take 15 years.

It costs millions because we allow it to cost millions.

It is a sign of our decadence.

 

[ClayCow]

The process takes 15 years because we allow it to take 15 years.

It costs millions because we allow it to cost millions.

It is a sign of our decadence.

Tell me how to speed up the process and make it cost less without infringing on due process.

 

[Rastoff]

Tell me how to speed up the process and make it cost less without infringing on due process.

Yes, it can be done and I guarantee at least a 50% reduction in time. I'm 90% sure we could cut the time by 75%.

The problem is not due process, but bureaucracy. There are too many hands in the process. Documents spend too much time just sitting waiting for someone, anyone, to look at them.

More than that, there are too many people saying, "It can't be done" and not enough saying it can.

 

[ClayCow]

Rastoff. Bureaucracy is always the problem and always would be, its the government. I mean i guess if your solution is to improve government process, then yes i guess id have to agree with yoh and gamecock. Its just not feasible to enact because, well, its our government.

 

[Rastoff]

Wrong! It can be done and I've done it.

I work for the USAF. I have actually sped up a few processes. Unfortunately, it takes some people in high places. For me it took a full bird colonel telling a few of his underlings to shut up and color. Once we showed them how easy it would be, they got on board quickly.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Not familiar with the law in Louisiana. If he gets life without parole, what's the soonest he can get out? If he kills again (in or out), what happens to the people who let him do it?

 

[ClayCow]

Wrong! It can be done and I've done it.

I work for the USAF. I have actually sped up a few processes. Unfortunately, it takes some people in high places. For me it took a full bird colonel telling a few of his underlings to shut up and color. Once we showed them how easy it would be, they got on board quickly.

But the death appeal process would have to come from directors, multiple ones at that who would not onyl mandate, but enforce.

Full Bird Colonel and their level of responsibilith is nothing compared to what i figure youd have to deal with to speed up death sentence. Hence in my opinion unfeasible.

 

[finesse_r]

Even if he never gets out of prison, he is still a threat to other prisoners and to his guards. People forget that murders have access to other prisoners who are not deserving of death, and they have to be guarded which can be a very dangerous job. Plus in this day and age there is no telling when some politician or judge will decide the prison is over crowed, and order a mass release and sometimes people like that slip through the cracks. it is a sad commentary, but life in prison rarely means being in prison for life.

 

[Rastoff]

Full Bird Colonel and their level of responsibilith is nothing compared to what i figure youd have to deal with to speed up death sentence. Hence in my opinion unfeasible.

As long as people think it's unfeasible, it will continue to be.

You are correct though. It would take a lot of convincing people who are highly placed. If what CAJ says about the DAs and their lack of love for death penalty cases, I think the power is there. They just have to be convinced.

Seriously, this is something I would take on. The only problem is money. I have to feed my family first. Once I retire, this may be a subject I try to tackle. Not just for death penalty cases, but for the justice system in general. God knows it could use the help.

 

[ClayCow]

Im just wondering if you would get pushback from.democrats. you know how easily they could twist your acts into something bad? Rastoff wants to make the government an efficient killing machine