Life in Prison or Execution?

[policerevolvercollector]

I voted for life without parole. Killing this guy won't change ANYTHING except to diminish us as a society making us no better than he is. Earlier posters nailed it. Prison is not a happy place for a child molestor. I won't go into to vivid details.

On the side issue, do not get me started on "social services". Most of the cases I work now involve elder abuse or exploitation. This can be physical, financial or both. I can testify that every social service agency I regularly deal with is beyond useless. Most times you have to make referrals via email and don't even talk to a person. Then, you'll get bounced around between offices and so on and so on...... Some of the individual folks want to help. The system is just too broken. I often get calls from people in these agencies that start " I'm not supposed to tell you this. But....." They had rather break their internal confidentiality rules (anonymously of course) in an attempt to stop the problem. The law requires them to report physical abuse not necessarily financial abuse. I can write a book about the vulnerability of our seniors. Sorry about the thread hijack.....

 

[Gamecock]

I voted for life without parole. Killing this guy won't change ANYTHING except to diminish us as a society making us no better than he is.

No. It will actually make us a society.

 

[Old TexMex]

The death penalty is less a punishment than it is a method of protecting others from an individual who is not only capable, but willing to murder.
Those families who have lost a loved one to a paroled, escaped or rioting prisoner that was convicted of capital murder and incarcerated rather than executed know truth. Painful, senseless truth.
If I'm prepared to use deadly force to protect myself and/or an innocent person, and support the use of deadly force to wage war against an army driven by an ideology, how different is the will of a jury?

Perhaps capital murder juries should be made up of those who have had family members murdered by "reformed" murderers.

(Disclaimer: I have, since the early seventies, been excused from jury duty, not for a crime I committed, but for crimes commited against my family)

 

[the ringo kid]

Everybody on both sides of this issue has made great points.I cant vote so will not. However,I do support the death penalty in many cases but--take the recent one about the vet who killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. I didnt and still do not--support a death penalty in that case--and yes I know--they never went for one.Had they done so? I would not have supported it in that case. To me its a case by case basis.

Like many have said--the way he was raised isnt an excuse. I wasnt raised with loads of love in our household, but,ive never robbed or killed anyone.

 

[Rastoff]

We have to keep in mind that social services agencies have a vested interest in maintaining as many cases as possible, and for as long as possible. If a solution is found and effectively achieved there is no longer a need for social services. Come budget time it helps to be able to present a huge, even overwhelming case load to justify higher budgets, more employees, more administrative and supervisory positions, etc.

Do you honestly believe that there is a shortage of social service cases? No, I don't agree with this at all. If they busted their behinds and solved every case they have open today within the next week, they would again be swamped by the end of the week after.

I've heard that some police departments have quotas for moving violations. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, people don't like that kind of thinking. Even so, they should not be concerned by this kind of quota. It cannot be set high enough to catch all those who violate the law. At least around here, a policeman could write 6 tickets an hour and not run out of legitimate tickets. It's the same with any social services office.

Throughout the 20th Century the United States moved steadily away from a focus on punishment toward a focus on rehabilitation,...

This is an interesting statistic, where did you hear it? I was watching a show the other day that said the exact opposite. It said that the "system" has decided that rehabilitation doesn't work and they have given up on it completely at the state and federal level. There are still some private organizations that are trying to rehabilitate though. At least that's what they said.

 

[Rastoff]

I have given this much thought and tried hard to come to a conclusion. Alas, without seeing the guy in question in person, I cannot decide. Therefore, I will abstain.

However, let me put forth a philosophical question; what is the difference between life in prison and death? Some have said that there is the chance for escape or parole. That's certainly true, but those are very small chances.

 

[LouisianaJoe]

The first thing that I noticed was the the second choice in the poll was "Kill him", not "Death Penalty" "Kill him" becomes a more emotional choice. Not unusual for a defense attorney.

Today, "Death Penalty" really means that the court hearings will now go on for 10-20 years as the defense will keep throwing appeals at the court hoping that something will stick and either free the defendant or get life w/o parole after all. In many cases, appeals do not have to have any real bearing on the case, just delay the final sentence.

 

[cowart]

without seeing the guy in question in person, I cannot decide.

Thats very interesting. It implies that if you *could* see them, you *could* decide. What aspect of the subject's physical appearance would prompt you to recommend the death sentence?

 

[CajunBass]

However, let me put forth a philosophical question; what is the difference between life in prison and death? Some have said that there is the chance for escape or parole. That's certainly true, but those are very small chances.

I can't answer this question, without getting into a religious discussion that would probably be frowned on my those who make the rules.

If you're interested, drop me a PM.

 

[Kanewpadle]

For all those who voted kill him, read below and let us know if the vote changes, be honest with yourself.

In my latter years of with the NYSP I instructed at two colleges - the course "Ethics in Criminal Justice." Here is the questions I posed; Do you believe in the death penalty, most of the class did (I had those who said yes raise their hands, next question was, if it was a friend who was on death row, do you still believe in the death penalty, a few more hands came down, then I asked if it was a relative on death row do you still believe in the death penalty, more hands came down. I finally asked if it was your son or daughter on death row, etc, even more hands came down.

For these reasons I do not believe in it, lock the killer up and throw the key away.

Again, here we are considering the welfare of the killer.

It goes both ways. What if it were your son or daughter that this guy murdered? Does your hand go up or down?

We have overwhelming proof that incarceration and rehabilitation does not work. Our jails are proof enough.

 

[okiegtrider]

Some have said that there is the chance for escape or parole. That's certainly true, but those are very small chances.

Rast, they must have much better prisons in your part of the country. Here in OK the doors at our penal institutions have been thrown wide open. The ones they don't parole out way early are walking out the gates on their own with frightening regularity. Seriously, escapes are commonplace here. The most recent one I heard of was this morning.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

In my experience while people want the death penalty, very few have the stomach to actually DO IT. That results in years of appeals which is not fair to the victims. Instead of closure and allowing the wound to heal, the incessant appeals and court proceedings are like picking at a scab thus never allowing a wound to heal. It is not fair but it is what it is.

A life in prison sentence while not granting the visceral relief of retribution does offer one thing-CLOSURE. The defendant no longer remains the center of attention surrounded by all the groups that cluster around to help right a wrong (cause everyone knows that if a death penalty is actually imposed it's because somebody didn't do their job ). The victims can get on with their life unburdened by continual court happenings reliving the crime over and over again. To those of you who say THAT is the problem, I cannot disagree, but the fact remains that it is going to happen.

Upon getting a life sentence the defendant is shuttled off to (in Louisiana's case) Angola where he will live out the rest of his life; his memory slowly fading from conscience as life goes on and people heal. He will live in a miserable condition (believe me on this one-no prison rodeo for murderers-no they stay back in lock up) dying slowly one day at a time both mentally and physically- being forgotten more and more as his family dies off and the victim's family heals and moves on until one day he dies totally alone and nobody really gives a damn anymore-except the trustee that has to go dig the hole on the prison grounds to dump him because nobody wants to bear the expense of bring him back to whatever home he once had for a burial. The trustee's divy up whatever belongings he had and then it's over-with a whimper.

And then the convict rots away in an unmarked grave until the final judgment.

Is that a worse way to go than in a blaze of glory in an execution chamber surrounded by Sister Prejean and all your supporters some 30 years earlier and then buried in a donated grave with honors befitting a hero while the victim's family is reviled somehow as the reason why he is being put to death? Because believe me, I've been through an execution and that is how it happens Witness the Sonnier case.

Anyway I'm going walking now

 

[Rastoff]

Thats very interesting. It implies that if you *could* see them, you *could* decide. What aspect of the subject's physical appearance would prompt you to recommend the death sentence?

It's a reasonable question. Allow me to clarify...

It's not that I want to see him, like in a picture. I would want to observe him and witness his reactions to questions. Maybe get some further insight into his character. Kind of like, "OK, you admit you killed the girl, tell me why we should let you live?" Just typing the words wouldn't be sufficient. I would want to be present to see how he answered, including mannerisms. It makes a difference.

In my experience while people want the death penalty, very few have the stomach to actually DO IT.

This is an astute observation. I wonder how people would choose differently if they were the ones who had to do the deed?

It's easy when you have the "keyboard filter" of the internet. Not so easy when it's in front of you, live.

 

[ATF]

This is an astute observation. I wonder how people would choose differently if they were the ones who had to do the deed?

It's easy when you have the "keyboard filter" of the internet. Not so easy when it's in front of you, live.

Some people would pay to do it, but isn't that the reason the firing squad was used? One or two real bullets and the rest blanks. I agree with CL's statement on the media attention of the execution in these high profile cases so why don't they take him to a quiet part of the prison, shoot him, take a pic and off to the incinerator. No funeral and dump the ashes. Maybe that's too easy but no one could make a buck out of that.

 

[Kanewpadle]

In my experience while people want the death penalty, very few have the stomach to actually DO IT. That results in years of appeals which is not fair to the victims. Instead of closure and allowing the wound to heal, the incessant appeals and court proceedings are like picking at a scab thus never allowing a wound to heal. It is not fair but it is what it is.

A life in prison sentence while not granting the visceral relief of retribution does offer one thing-CLOSURE. The defendant no longer remains the center of attention surrounded by all the groups that cluster around to help right a wrong (cause everyone knows that if a death penalty is actually imposed it's because somebody didn't do their job ). The victims can get on with their life unburdened by continual court happenings reliving the crime over and over again. To those of you who say THAT is the problem, I cannot disagree, but the fact remains that it is going to happen.

Upon getting a life sentence the defendant is shuttled off to (in Louisiana's case) Angola where he will live out the rest of his life; his memory slowly fading from conscience as life goes on and people heal. He will live in a miserable condition (believe me on this one-no prison rodeo for murderers-no they stay back in lock up) dying slowly one day at a time both mentally and physically- being forgotten more and more as his family dies off and the victim's family heals and moves on until one day he dies totally alone and nobody really gives a damn anymore-except the trustee that has to go dig the hole on the prison grounds to dump him because nobody wants to bear the expense of bring him back to whatever home he once had for a burial. The trustee's divy up whatever belongings he had and then it's over-with a whimper.

And then the convict rots away in an unmarked grave until the final judgment.

Is that a worse way to go than in a blaze of glory in an execution chamber surrounded by Sister Prejean and all your supporters some 30 years earlier and then buried in a donated grave with honors befitting a hero while the victim's family is reviled somehow as the reason why he is being put to death? Because believe me, I've been through an execution and that is how it happens Witness the Sonnier case.

Anyway I'm going walking now

Caj, I don't have your experience in this matter. But I think I know myself well enough to say that I wouldn't have a problem with condemning someone to death. Especially in the murder of a child.

If someone murdered my child, I would be highly pissed knowing that he was still breathing and my child wasn't.

 

[shouldazagged]

GatorFarmer beat me to a crucial point. I've worked with prisoners in my profession. They do not like child molesters, much less child killers. And that's putting it mildly. If Holly ever gets into general population the chances of his avoiding being shanked are fairly slim. Very slim, in some prisons. Until that happens, gang rape will be an early feature of his miserable existence.

I'm not in favor of general application of the death penalty. There have been too many cases in which DNA proved someone was inncocent after all. We need to do better with the technology at hand.

Manson should have been executed, but California law ruled it out. Dahmer should have received death, but another inmate eventually took care of that monster. I have no problem with Tsarnaev being put down.

But Holly? Tough call. If we could be sure that execution would not be endlessly delayed by appeals--which of course we can't--an early death might be more merciful.

I'm really sorry about his hideous upbringing, but I've known lots of people who were horribly mistreated as children but didn't grow up to rape and murder little kids.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I will only make two points.
Someone put to death will NOT kill again.
How bad has Charles Manson and Mumia Abu-Jamal(Wesley Cook)
Have it since there sentences were changed to life?

 

[finesse_r]

It really does not matter how a rabid dog got rabies; Once he has it he has to be put down. No doubt many of the criminal psychopaths and sociopath that do so much carnage to society were abused and mistreated as part of their journey to their criminal end. As sad as that is, it does not change what they have become, and it does not alter the fact that they will not change over time.

 

[transit]

A general statement, since it's come up multiple times here, and one hears it all the time elsewhere:

I find it genuinely interesting how often, in making the case against capital punishment, it is argued that society should expect and accept that an inmate will be certainly raped and likely murdered, and therefore imprisonment is sufficient.

Execution is the ultimate punishment society can impose on an offender. It is a punishment, but is never intended under our system to be accomplished through torture, etc. We don't need gory ways to take a capital convict's life, we simply need to take it.

I accept that citizens may, in good faith, oppose the death penalty.

However, I see hypocrisy when people in opposition say that, "We don't need to execute, because the convict will be sodomized and otherwise brutalized in prison."

If an offender commits a capital crime, I believe society may decide to execute him, or not; however I do not believe that hoping he'll experience a tortured incarceration is an "American" alternative. Society doesn't need to see an offender suffer, it just needs to see him pay.

 

[Kanewpadle]

A general statement, since it's come up multiple times here, and one hears it all the time elsewhere:

I find it genuinely interesting how often, in making the case against capital punishment, it is argued that society should expect and accept that an inmate will be certainly raped and likely murdered, and therefore imprisonment is sufficient.

Execution is the ultimate punishment society can impose on an offender. It is a punishment, but is never intended under our system to be accomplished through torture, etc. We don't need gory ways to take a capital convict's life, we simply need to take it.

I accept that citizens may, in good faith, oppose the death penalty.

However, I see hypocrisy when people in opposition say that, "We don't need to execute, because the convict will be sodomized and otherwise brutalized in prison."

If an offender commits a capital crime, I believe society may decide to execute him, or not; however I do not believe that hoping he'll experience a tortured incarceration is an "American" alternative. Society doesn't need to see an offender suffer, it just needs to see him pay.

I don't understand this. Where was his compassion when he took a child's life? How much did the child suffer? Why are we worried about how the murderer is treated after he gets a fair trial?

I see no hypocrisy in an eye for an eye no matter how much the dirt bag suffers.