Life in Prison or Execution?

[dennis2146]

I worked on Death Row and Administrative Segregation in the early 90's in Canon City, CO. At the time we had 4 inmates on Death Row and one, Gary Davis, was put to death. I knew him for a few years, we both had been in the USMC so had something in common. We got along great on a professional level. Having said that if the Governor of Colorado had given me permission to shoot Davis behind the ear with a 38 I would have done so and had mentioned that to the convict on one occasion. He said he did not blame me one bit.

I feel the same about the person we are discussing here. All of us in life go through varying stages of problems and yet are able to get above them at some point and get on with our lives without killing, raping, molesting children, robbery and burglary etc. I do understand the person in question had a bad childhood but many other men and women have also suffered just as bad and have gotten on with their lives. I feel sympathetic that he suffered a bad childhood but there is also reason to feel sympathetic for the little girl he murdered.

My vote would be to put him to death as I have seen inmates in the system that were sentenced to life in prison without parole or a number of unrealistic years such as 400 years. But then some of those inmates have killed other inmates or staff while incarcerated for the 400 years. The judge in the new murder trial basically gave them another 400 years. It always gave me pause to ask, anybody, How many people do you really have to kill before we start to get serious here?

I am still sympathetic to inmates and how they suffered before getting into a life of crime but there are also victims to consider as well.

Dennis

 

[Gamecock]

THANK YOU, CAJUNLAWYER!!!

Very informative.

Question:

Could we reduce times if we hired more judges, and operated more courts, or whatever to reduce time-to-hearing?

 

[Absalom]

I did not read through all the posts in detail, so if someone already referenced this, I apologize.

In a column a few days ago, George F. Will stated very convincingly the conservative case against the death penalty:

1. Since an execution is not reversible, applying the death penalty requires extreme competence from the justice system which imposes it.

2. Our justice system is a government program.

3. Since 1973, over 140 people have been released from death row because they were convicted based on bad evidence or were plain innocent. Apparently, from what I've read elsewhere, for quite some years the FBI crime lab was run more like Animal House.

4. This isn't a question of justice, but of having a fail-safe justice system.

I certainly believe that there are people who deserve to be executed. I just don't think that we could ever devise a justice system that can be entrusted with the power over life and death. When the "Oops!" moment comes, the guy should at least still be alive to be released. Remember that recent case where the guy was cleared of a rape charge just after he had finished serving his 24-year sentence? As Clint Eastwood famously said, a man's got to know his limitations; so do we as a society.

 

[Gamecock]

Truth be told there have been people put to death who were innocent. Is it worth saving that money putting innocent people to death? People have rights and innocent people get incarcerated. I guaranty many of you would be all for the long judicial process if you had been wrongly accused.

We punish people with execution. We punish people with incarceration. You say we shouldn't execute people because they might be innocent. It follows that we shouldn't incarcerate people because they might be innocent.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

THANK YOU, CAJUNLAWYER!!!

Very informative.

Question:

Could we reduce times if we hired more judges, and operated more courts, or whatever to reduce time-to-hearing?

Based on my 30 plus yeas I don't think so. All you'll have is more judges doing less work in more time to justify their existence.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Never been the least bit interested in psychoanalyzing the "why" on stuff like this. If he did it, he earned the needle.

 

[ClayCow]

We punish people with execution. We punish people with incarceration. You say we should execute people because they might be innocent. It follows that we shouldn't incarcerate people because they might be innocent.

I never said we shouldnt execute. I said we shouldnt deny them due process which ends up being costly

 

[Rastoff]

The fact is they killed children.

I disagree. It doesn't matter to me if it's a child or a senior or anyone in between. Murder is murder.

Some people would pay to do it,[kill a person convicted of murder]

I'm sure they would. Those people frighten me. In my opinion, anyone who will rush to kill anyone, regardless of the reason, is not far from being the same as the murderer. They're just looking for a legal reason to satisfy that urge.

I am against the death penalty for personal reasons, believing that no man is beyond redemption.

This is exactly my problem with this case and many of the comments I heard about the biker situation in Texas. The question is, how do you know when they are redeemed?

 

[the ringo kid]

I used to be for the death penalty. However i helped build a prison while i was deployed.

I cannot imagine being stuck in a prison for the rest of my life, id rather choose death. To some people theyd be happy living in confinement for the rest of their life over death to a crime they committed. Not me.

If.you want true punishment, solitary confinement is where its at. I believe due to death penalty appeals, lifetime confinement or solitary confinement is cheaper.

No its not. Solitary confinement isnt cheaper--its at least two to three times more expensive per inmate. I know--I worked at two facilities that had it. As of fifeteen :::hey my "F" key worked::: years ago--on average here in Texas and in a STATE facility--the cost to house and feed each inmate in GP--was then---one hundred thousand dollars. I have no clue what the cost is now since ive been out of the game since July that time period. The cost to house someone in solitary--three times the GP cost factor.

 

[Rastoff]

Not really anything one can do to speed it up other than suspend the Habeas writ in death penalty cases at both the state and federal level.

No, I don't believe that for one second. I have a lot of training and experience in process improvement. I was on a full time process improvement team. In every situation where we were given the authority to actually make changes, we reduced process time by at least 75%.

The problem is that most people hate the word "change" more than they hate their clumsy system or having to wait. Everyone wants the court system to move faster. No one is willing to take on the system to improve it. Further, even when the potential change shows massive savings, in one case $13M, they still don't want to change it.

Our team offered to work free of charge. Our salaries would be solely based on the savings we brought to the organization. We were willing to accept payment of 10% of the actual savings for our pay. They wouldn't let us do that. Even so, at the end of a year, had we been allowed to actually do the salary deal, we would have received a raise so high we could all have retired because we saved so much money. The sad part is we weren't allowed to implement any of it. In the end, it was a waste of time.

I guarantee that I could take that 15-20 year process and cut it down to less than 7 years. I'm 90% sure I could cut it to less than 5 years, but would have to analyze the process first.

One more guarantee; once I made my proposed improvements, 99% of the people involved in the process wouldn't like it at first. If allowed to actually implement it, 80% would eventually see the value and embrace it. The rest will grumble no matter what.

 

[Rastoff]

Rast, they must have much better prisons in your part of the country. Here in OK the doors at our penal institutions have been thrown wide open. The ones they don't parole out way early are walking out the gates on their own with frightening regularity. Seriously, escapes are commonplace here. The most recent one I heard of was this morning.

Well, I can't speak to parole, but as far as escapes are concerned, they don't happen here.

I live within 5 miles (as the crow flies) of a level 4 prison. They have all the other levels as well. I live within 50 miles of two other prisons and several jails. In the 20 years I've lived in this proximity I've only heard of one escape and he was caught the next day.

 

[Ranger514]

Impossible to fix that badly broken a person. If it were a mad dog or suffering animal we would put it down. His humanity is gone. I say put him out of his misery and protect society in doing so. His mother and her boyfriend should have to pay a price as well. They created a monster.

 

[Imissedagain]

This might make me sound like a hardass and cheap but..... Anyone found guilty, without any doubts, and is given life in prison.... those who voted that way should dig deep into their pockets and pay all the bills.

 

[don5]

I was discussing something along these lines with a college intern one day at work. She had a really interesting take on the deathy penalty and life in prison.
Her idea was that there would only be life in prison. No death penalty would be applied. However the following conditions would be imposed.

The inmate stays in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day for the rest of their life.
No outside contact whatsoever. No TV. The only person they would see would be the guard delivering their food.
There would be a cyanide pill placed on every tray along with the food. It would be the prisoner's decision to take the pill or not.

Now I have to admit when you think about it, that is a pretty smart idea. When a guy realizes that, after 10 or 20 years, his life consists of the same boring routine. It will never get any better and there will be no change. He might realize that it is over and take the pill.

 

[Comrad]

Boo hoo, a crappy childhood, what kind of childhood did the kid he killed have. Obviously I voted to save the taxpayers some room and board.

 

[Fishinfool]

Just as a side note when contemplating life in prison for killers, we should consider the threat these violent inmates present to staff working the various prisons and penitentiaries that house them. The latest Federal Bureau Of Prisons statistics I could find indicate 25 FBOP staff have been murdered by inmates. I am sure the number is much higher when you include state and county correctional facilities. No facts to back it up, but I would bet most of the inmates involved in these killings are not in for minor crimes.... Someone has to handle and deal with these violent folks on a daily basis.

Larry

 

[Gamecock]

Great thread, Cajunlawyer. Thanks for posting, and for your comments.

 

[ClayCow]

This might make me sound like a hardass and cheap but..... Anyone found guilty, without any doubts, and is given life in prison.... those who voted that way should dig deep into their pockets and pay all the bills.

Thats the only way someone gets convicted. So it doesnt always work especially with poor representation.

No its not. Solitary confinement isnt cheaper--its at least two to three times more expensive per inmate. I know--I worked at two facilities that had it. As of fifeteen :::hey my "F" key worked::: years ago--on average here in Texas and in a STATE facility--the cost to house and feed each inmate in GP--was then---one hundred thousand dollars. I have no clue what the cost is now since ive been out of the game since July that time period. The cost to house someone in solitary--three times the GP cost factor.

I know death is more expensive than gen pop. But i cant find any numbers on solitary vs death.

 

[ClayCow]

Just as a side note when contemplating life in prison for killers, we should consider the threat these violent inmates present to staff working the various prisons and penitentiaries that house them. The latest Federal Bureau Of Prisons statistics I could find indicate 25 FBOP staff have been murdered by inmates. I am sure the number is much higher when you include state and county correctional facilities. No facts to back it up, but I would bet most of the inmates involved in these killings are not in for minor crimes.... Someone has to handle and deal with these violent folks on a daily basis.

Larry

Interesting point. Here is an article which yalks about it.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/us/rethinking-solitary-confinement.html?referrer=

As much as you all would hate it. It may be more cost effective and safer to treat inmates nicer.

 

[Rastoff]

Obviously I voted to save the taxpayers some room and board.

Interesting way to put it considering the many posts in this thread that demonstrate it is more expensive to sentence a person to death.

Unless of course you meant you voted for life in prison.