Lil Gun , Not in my guns

[Luke Duke]

Bought a bunch of different powders from a guy. He had a brand new sealed pound of Lil' Gun . Thought Id use it up before I dug into the powders I like ( waste not, want not) .
All the bad things I read about this powder seem right . Flame thrower powder , Hot ! Start Loads were making my .44, .357 to hot to empty my brass comfortably out of my single actions after 18 rounds. No pressure signs Brass just fell out of the cylinders. Shoot over sand bags with my grip hand supported. Had burn marks on the hood of my Suburban at the barrel cylinder gap and end of barrel. NEVER had this problem with any powders I've ever used. Think I will shelf this powder for a rainy day when every thing else is used up!
Unfortunate because all the start loads were pretty accurate. I would think with some load development, could be a good powder. But, no way

 

[lihpster]

Try trading it for primers.

 

[biku324]

I've been using it for nearly 20 years. It's my go-to powder for both 357 and 41 mag full power loads. No troubles of any kind with Ruger revolvers and rifles, Smith revolvers, Henry and Marlin rifles. Accuracy is excellent, pressures low for velocities achieved. I keep reading how none of this can be true....

 

[scooter123]

I shoot Skeet and it's a popular powder for loading 410 shotshells. It's also known to be a hot burning powder that will reduce the number of reloads you can get from a hull but is notable for being clean burning and good for velocities above 1300 fps.

Personally I've tried it and found it did produce a good 410 target load but the crimp was dished and 410 hulls are currently difficult to come by. As a result I have 2 lbs. that may get used for competition loads but my primary goto for 410 is 410. I've also tried using some in 300 Blackout loads and found the accuracy with a 125 grain bullet was quite poor, so my goto for the 300 BLK is H110.

If you want to sell that powder you purchased my tip is to head for a Shotgun Range where Skeet is popular. There you will find a group of very intelligent and interesting people who will gladly teach you to shoot Skeet and will also purchase your stock of Lil Gun.

 

[stansdds]

Some people swear by Lil' Gun, others swear at it. I have no experience with it, but it is my understanding that its burning rate is a little slower than that of H-110/W-296. I can see short barrels and light weight bullets being an issue with Lil' Gun producing a flame thrower effect, it certainly happens with H-110/W-296 in my experience. The best advice with Lil' Gun, same goes for H-110/W-296, is to use it with longer barrels and heavier bullets. So with 357 Magnum, bullets of 158 to 180 grains, and in 44 Magnum, bullets of 240 to 300 grains, and a barrel of at least 6 inches, longer barrels would be even better.

 

[Patrick L]

I use Lil Gun exclusively in my . 410 skeet loads, thats it. I do not use it in metallic loads

 

[Fishinfool]

I think it was Freedom Arms that issued a warning not to use this powder in their revolvers because of it's erosive effects. It does have a reputation for high velocities with low pressure in handgun and some rifle loads. I have always stuck with H-110 / 296 for my magnum handgun loads mainly because that is what I started with, liked, and never really experimented with further.

Larry

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, it's THE powder for the 410.

I noticed the extreme heat generated by it when I first tried it. It's too bad because it's very accurate and generates lower pressures than most, if not all magnum class powders. It also delivers higher velocities than most magnum class powders too.

That said, I will not use Lil'Gun in my handguns but in a 357 Magnum levergun with heavy bullets, it's tops in my opinion. I get crazy velocities with a 170gr or 180gr bullet.
I did send a bunch of bullets over the chrono shot from the Marlin Levergun. It seems Lil'Gun adds ~100 fps to each load.
Here are the numbers: (you will be surprised!)

Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps

Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps

I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps

Remember, these numbers were attained from a Marlin 1894C Levergun Carbine.

 

[CH4]

Because of the apparent rapid erosion it causes in the forcing cone, I use it sparingly in my 4" 500. That said, after 50 full power rounds I haven't noticed any erosion.

 

[jcelect]

Lil Gun!

Like the names implies, use it in "Lil Guns"....... Look at Hodgdon's loading book in 22 Hornet, 22 K Hornet, & I use it in my .224 Harvey K chuk round. These rounds are shot in a revolver and rifle. The pressures are much lower than H110 or H4227 in any of the above cals.! I'm in the process of trying it in the 22 Rem Jet and the .256 Win Mag. I do use H110 in ALL my 44 Mag jacketed rounds, and they are hot! I shoot a Silhouette 29 w/10 5/8" barrel. No flames, but in a shorter barrel the load becomes a flame thrower! Frivolous use of any powder!
jcelect

 

[Luke Duke]

My loads were Start loads for heavy 158 and 240 gr ,long barrel revolvers . I was shooting 240gr GC . 44's and my barrel was leaded so bad it took me an hour to clean it out. I have never had this problem with any loads other than this Lil Gun. Maybe it was this particular lot of powder, but that lead was cooked on bad.

 

[biku324]

I think it was Freedom Arms that issued a warning not to use this powder in their revolvers because of it's erosive effects. It does have a reputation for high velocities with low pressure in handgun and some rifle loads. I have always stuck with H-110 / 296 for my magnum handgun loads mainly because that is what I started with, liked, and never really experimented with further.

Larry

Indeed, it was Freedom Arms that issued the 'no Lil Gun' advisory. My suspicion is that the very heavy charges and very high pressures that are the norm for rounds like the Linebaugh and Casull are a different animal than my go-to loads of 16.2 grains behind any 158 grain bullets in 357 and 19.5 grains behind 210-220 grain bullets and likely aren't comparable. I've burned thousands of rounds in 9 guns with no damage of any kind.

 

[TXBryan]

'Lil-Gun is my "go-to" for .22 Hornet. Didn't take long to figure out it works best with flat-base jacketed projectiles. Used it once with some reasonably hard-cast lead bullets without gas checks. Didn't shoot that many of them and then spent a much longer period of time scrapping lead residue from the barrel. The stuff is hot.

I think it's an extremely useful powder but it has some limitations - pretty much like every other powder.

 

[biku324]

Like said above, it's THE powder for the 410.

I noticed the extreme heat generated by it when I first tried it. It's too bad because it's very accurate and generates lower pressures than most, if not all magnum class powders. It also delivers higher velocities than most magnum class powders too.

That said, I will not use Lil'Gun in my handguns but in a 357 Magnum levergun with heavy bullets, it's tops in my opinion. I get crazy velocities with a 170gr or 180gr bullet.
I did send a bunch of bullets over the chrono shot from the Marlin Levergun. It seems Lil'Gun adds ~100 fps to each load.
Here are the numbers: (you will be surprised!)

Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps

Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps

I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps

Remember, these numbers were attained from a Marlin 1894C Levergun Carbine.

Your loads look excellent!

Some years ago Brian Pearce published an article in which he used 20.0 grains behind 158 grain bullets for just over 2,000 fps in a (Marlin?) carbine. I'll pass on exceeding maximum published loads by 10-15%.

 

[Oldfrt]

It's my preferred powder for 12.7 x 42's, mostly because it has the most load data for that round.

 

[Sevens]

I also toyed with Lil'Gun for a while and got some very impressive velocities in .357 Magnum but when Freedom Arms made their statements about it, I decided that with a million options for powder, I didn't need this one.

The one bit that seems to be worth mentioning is that nearly every gun maker rolls out the standard line about their guns not being used with handloads or reloads. Freedom is exactly opposite of that. Freedom has in past years (and maybe still now) sold brass on their site and offered load data also.

These guys are a gunmaker but honestly, they aren't just any gunmaker. They make the finest single action production revolver on the market and they are the evolution of the creation of the first commercial big bore hyper magnum in the .454 Casull. The point is that they absolutely know what they are doing and they also know what they have replaced (free of charge) to their customers and they know from where the damage came.

I keep and use some 30 powders at my bench. Lil'Gun was shown the exit maybe 6 or 7 years ago. It's not welcome back.

 

[SS336]

I have never used Lil'Gun in anything other than my .22 Hornet.
It is the go to powder for that cartridge. Very accurate and a pound goes a long way.
I think there are a few small cased rifle cartridges that it will work very well in as well as small gauge shot shells. Do not know anyone that uses it in handgun cartridges but I'm pretty sure it would work for some, at least for special purposes.
I have to say I would be lost without in my Hornet. I have a few pounds stocked because of the accuracy.

 

[Paul105]

I've used Lil'Gun a bit. Never used it to shoot more than a few test rounds. Here are some chrono results for the .357 Mag

Beartooth 185gr LFNGC (yes 185gr not 158gr)
New WW Cases
Fed 200 Mag
14.7gr Lil'Gun
1.595 OAL
Chron 4 Paces fr Muzzle
Temp 75 Deg


Marlin 18" ------------- 1,713 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" ------- 1,388 fps
Ruger SP101 3+" --- 1,161 fps
S&W M60 3" -------- 1,175 fps
S&W M66-8 2.75" --- 1,226 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1 7/8" 1,023 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1 7/8" 1,007 fps

Have a fresh jug for use in the 38 super if I ever get around to it.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[Drm50]

I've got a pound of little gun and one of H-110. I've never used either. Have used 2400 in magnums since I started loading in 60s. I get gun tuned in I've never been interested with changing loads. Sometimes forced into change when they discontinue a powder or bullet.

 

[fordson]

I use Lil'Gun for my go to 38SUPER loads with no ill effects. A 135 grain JHP on top of 12.5 grains of Lil'Gun gives me 1230 - 1250 fps. Very accurate load.