Loading up some 38 Special….

[nksmfamjp]

I have a pretty good 38 Spcl load. It is 148gr plated wadcutters seated a tad long to a cannelure ring. It is loaded with Titegrouo to about 700 fps. Shoots like a 22 out of my 6" K38!

I'm trying to put together some +p 38 158's for snubbie practice. Titegroup is only going 760fps. I was hoping for a bit more. For this load, I'm developing in the S&W 19-3.

The whole goal is practice ammo to build up to SD 38+p and 357mag loads. What powders should I be testing with. Trying AA#5 next.

What else should I be trying. I'm hoping to see 800fps or more from the snub…possible?

I'll have to look at SD ammo velocities to see what to match to.

 

[DWalt]

For a snubby, I'd try using faster powders like Bullseye, 700-X, or similar. For 158 grain lead SWC bullets in .38 Special cases, 4 to 4.5 grains should get you where you want to be. That's what I use.

 

[.38SuperMan]

I use faster powders for my snubbies. I'm not trying to make +P, just come up with a mild recoil load that reasonably accurate. I'm shooting out of a 2" model 10 and pre 10, 640 no dash, Detective Special and new model Colt Cobra. I'm out of town and don't have chrono data at the moment.

My precious stock of Buljseye is down to the last bottle and I couldn't find any so I started experimenting. I'd always been curious about Accurate powders so after a little research I bough some Nitro100NF and Accurate #2. N100NF is faster than Bullseye and works very well with 125 and 158 polymer coated and Berrys plated flat nose. Both are well suited for snubbies since they're both very fast. Other things I like are they're economical and burn completely and are very clean even in minimum loads. Recoil is minimal too and it's consistent, meters very well and isn't position sensitive. The only thing some might complain about is the charge for N100NF is small and you could double or triple charge a case and the the amount used for a standard charge is in a pretty small range often with a .5 grain range from minimum to maximum load.

If I could only have one of these two powders I'd probably pick #2. I think it's a bit more versatile although I've used N100NF in 9mm, 380 and 45LC with excellent results. Number 2 though works well for lower power 357 magnum loads which are in the range of 38+P velocities.

Good luck!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For jacketed bullets in the .38 Special +P and a 158gr bullet AA#5 will do fine. So will Power Pistol or HS-6.

 

[gwpercle]

For a snubby, I'd try using faster powders like Bullseye, 700-X, or similar. For 158 grain lead SWC bullets in .38 Special cases, 4 to 4.5 grains should get you where you want to be. That's what I use.

Good Post !
I'm loading 3.3 grs. 700X as a practice load
158 gr. cast SWC @ 750 fps ( 4" bbl.)

4.4 grs. 700X (158 gr. cast SWC)
In a 38 Special +P loading
gives 980 fps in a 4" bbl.
this is darn close to 1000 fps and not a bad load for any +P need .
A nice cast Hollow Point bullet would do just the trick .

AA#5 will be better for the 357 Magnum but is a tad slow for the short barrel 38 Special loads . I have found it to be a little slower than Unique and it also has a min. pressure required to burn completely and clean ... like Unique does .
Gary

 

[mikerjf]

I've been using Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol, and 2400. Unique is my choice for 38+P. You will occasionally see 2400 data for 38 +P, it definitely has a kick.

The next one I'd try, based on recipes I see, is W231. Seems to cover the calibers I shoot real well.

 

[.38SuperMan]

I don't have any experience with #5 but have a great deal of experience with HS-6 which is the same as Winchester 540. HS-6 is a good mid range 357 powder but gives quite a bit of flash especially out of shorter barrels. When I was shooting USPSA thirty years ago I used 540 to make major in 38 super. Since then I've backed away from using much HS-6 other than mid range 357 magnum loads for may lever action rifle.

Just my opinion, slow powders aren't as efficient in a short barrel. They don't completely burn before the bullet exits the barrel causing a lot of flash. Faster powders burn more completely and efficiently resulting in less flash. I used to use 231 in 38 special but find it much dirtier and more position sensitive than N100NF and No 2 and less consistent in milder loads. In heavier loads 231 might work well but not minimum loads.

 

[Green Frog]

OK, speaking of loads for 38 snubbies, I would like a good load for my Baby Chiefs Spl based on cast or swaged 156 gr SWCs and W231. Can I get an all purpose (range and defense) load with that combo? I'll probably also use these same loads in my Model 60-4, but I figure that will not be stressed at all by my Baby loads.

Froggie

 

[GypsmJim]

I spent years trying to develop a snubby load. Read books, talked to friends, etc. Nothing satisfied me.

Then, I came up with a formula all by myself that works awesome. 158 Grain Kieth's over IMR 4227. It works in my 6 inchers as well.

 

[John Patrick]

OK, speaking of loads for 38 snubbies, I would like a good load for my Baby Chiefs Spl based on cast or swaged 156 gr SWCs and W231. Can I get an all purpose (range and defense) load with that combo? I'll probably also use these same loads in my Model 60-4, but I figure that will not be stressed at all by my Baby loads.

Froggie

Hogdon shows 3.1 gr for a starting load for 158gr lead SWC at 782fps - barrel length not given.

3.7gr max load at 834fps - barrel length not given.

 

[Forrest r]

Several years ago I did 38spl p+ testing using a 2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver. Did things a little different & was mainly interested in what a powder could do. So I used 10 different bullets in the test and 5 different powders. I loaded 5 rounds using each bullets and all 5 powders. The end result was I ran 50 rounds of each powder/load over the chronograph.

This gave me a general idea of what to expect from a powder using 140gr to 160gr cast/coated/jacketed bullets in the 2" bbl'd snubnosed 38spl.

These where all hot p+/max loads.

bullseye 801fps
unique 833fps
be-86 845fps
2400 887fps
power pistol 950fps

 

[Hasbeen1945]

A powder burn rate chart is your friend. Powders that are neighbors on the chart work pretty munch the same. The difference sometimes is how they flow through a powder measure.
When I was shooting a lot of center fire rifle. I found H 414 or 760, a ball powder ran through a powder measure like water. Burn rate is real close to IMR 4350. A great powder but not so powder measure friendly.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/burn-rate-color.pdf
You will also find Unique and Power Pistol are friends on the chart.

 

[alwslate]

Hogdon shows 3.1 gr for a starting load for 158gr lead SWC at 782fps - barrel length not given.

3.7gr max load at 834fps - barrel length not given.

Ridiculous misinformation of 231 in the .38 spl. Typical from Hodgdon. In my 4'' mod 10-5 4.0 grs of 231 chronos at 800 fps with a 158 gr cast SWC. 5.1 grs, maybe barely +P chronos at 1003 fps from the same 4" 10-5.

 

[DWalt]

My experience with the Hodgdon-supplied loading data is that it is not to be believed. Muzzle velocity information they supply is wildly optimistic vs. what I measure with my own Chrono.

 

[rockquarry]

Hogdon shows 3.1 gr for a starting load for 158gr lead SWC at 782fps - barrel length not given.

3.7gr max load at 834fps - barrel length not given.

Use this data if you wish, but look at Lyman and several other paper published sources for 158 grain cast 231 loads. Hodgdon has been publishing these figures for a while now and they really don't correspond with numbers from other reputable data.

 

[rosewood]

My experience with the Hodgdon-supplied loading data is that it is not to be believed. Muzzle velocity information they supply is wildly optimistic vs. what I measure with my own Chrono.

I think their data is with a 7.7" barrel. I mean, who totes that?

Rosewood

 

[DWalt]

Difficult to say what Hodgdon uses as they do not specify. I pretty much consider Hodgdon's data as being useless. My most-used recipes come from various Lyman handbooks. Information from the bullet manufacturers' manuals, such as Sierra, Hornady, and Speer, seems more realistic.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Since you are using plated bullets, using a heavy crimp to get more fps is out of the question
due to coating and lead damage.

You will need to find another powder to add fps to your loads if your
Tightgroup power is maxed out.

 

[DWalt]

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/burn-rate-color.pdf
You will also find Unique and Power Pistol are friends on the chart.

I consider Red Dot, Bullseye, 700-X, Titegroup, and Clays as performing nearly identically in the fast burn family. I might even stretch things a bit and include AA #2. I favor those for use in the .38 Special and .45 ACP using lead bullets. Am currently using mainly Clays as I have more of it than any of the others in that group.

 

[WR Moore]

All the powder manufacturers seem to use specially made test barrels (tight bore/groove/chamber) in a universal receiver. This tends to show higher velocities per given charge along with higher pressures. I've got an older Winchester data book, the max charge generally produces a velocity more like that of the minimum charge.

Power Pistol does better for velocity than Unique, if you don't mind the flash.

 

[.38SuperMan]

I think their data is with a 7.7" barrel. I mean, who totes that?

Rosewood

I've noticed several of the manufacturers derive their data from long barrels and still publish data for bullets like Ranier that have been out of business for twenty or thirty years. Why not use a standard 4" 686 or Python to generate chrono data and use polymer coated and popular bullets rather than discontinued profiles.

Another gripe with Hogdons, they'll take several types of bullets and develop loads for several WW and Hodgdon powders then select a totally different selection for Accurate powders. One will be cast lead and the other plated and jacketed. If they're going to test a bullet give data for Hodgdon and Accurate not one or the other.

 

[Cdog]

I'm a fan of Accurate #5. I've used it in a variety applications with excellent results.

Regardless of tube length I like slower powders and higher load density.

I've also had really good results using CFE Pistol.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Hogdon shows 3.1 gr for a starting load for 158gr lead SWC at 782fps - barrel length not given.

3.7gr max load at 834fps - barrel length not given.

Hodgdon data is usually a 7.7" barrel.

I'm seeing I don't need over 800fps for a 158 +p load.

Powder choices are Longshot, AA#5, Titegroup, or 231. I'm using Nosler's data which says AA#5 may be most accurate.

 

[alwslate]

5.5 grs of Longshot with a 158 gr cast SWC chronos at 955 fps out of my 4" model 10-5 and should be right at the upper limit for std pressure at 17,000 psi. According to articles in Handloader magazine by Brian Pearce 6.0 grs with a 158 gr cast SWC will chrono at over 1,000 fps from a 4" barrel without exceeding the 20,000 psi limit for +P loads. Longshot and Power Pistol are ideal for +P loads in the .38 spl and have very similar ballistics.

 

[jimbo728]

231 works great for me in.38 spl.
I save my A5 for .357.
Jim

 

[ArchAngelCD]

One of my 3 favorite .38 Special loads is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 4.0gr W231 with a CCI-500 primer.

I mentioned a few powders above for the .38 Special +P and forgot to mention W572. I really like that fairly new powder and I might even use it to replace W540/HS-6 in the near future. ( I still have 3 or so pounds of HS-6 to burn up)

 

[Cdog]

One of my 3 favorite .38 Special loads is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 4.0gr W231 with a CCI-500 primer.

I mentioned a few powders above for the .38 Special +P and forgot to mention W572. I really like that fairly new powder and I might even use it to replace W540/HS-6 in the near future. ( I still have 3 or so pounds of HS-6 to burn up)

I like W572 too. It meters great, clean, and versatile. It has yet to be effective, but I've been lobbying Hodgdon for expanded load data.

Early in the plandemic I stumbled into a 4lb bottle for $60 and change. After taking a quick look at where it fell on the burn rate chart I snapped it up.

 

[Nevada Ed]

You said you were testing in a K frame.

When you work up a load for the little 148 gr bullet out of a J frame 2".
you will find that a maximum load of Bullseye or w231 at around 800fps
is not very pleasant to shoot and has a lot of recoil and "Bark" .

I find that 745fps is plenty for a full target load, if you need high velocity
and that 630fps is even easier on the wallet.

 

[rockquarry]

You said you were testing in a K frame.

When you work up a load for the little 148 gr bullet out of a J frame 2".
you will find that a maximum load of Bullseye or w231 at around 800fps
is not very pleasant to shoot and has a lot of recoil and "Bark" .

I find that 745fps is plenty for a full target load, if you need high velocity
and that 630fps is even easier on the wallet.

I'm in agreement. I also use Bullseye and 231 in J-frame snub nose .38s, but I load a 160 grain H&G #51 SWC. At around 750 fps with either powder, it's accurate and about as much as I care to shoot on a regular basis.

I only load a 148 gr. wadcutter (H&G #50) with 2.7 Bullseye. I don't recall if I've ever chronographed these in a 2" gun, but your 630 fps figure is probably about right for my loads also. Pleasant to shoot.