Loads for 38 snubbies

5.1 grains of Unique (5.4 grains if you feel adventurous) under a 158 grain bullet gives excellent, hard-hitting snub performance in a way that the fast burning powders can't achieve.

For the ultimate in .38 Special performance with a "listed" or published handload, try the minimum charge weight of SR 4756 powder (no way anyone would want to attempt the maximum listed charge weight) for a 158 grain cast lead bullet as published in the Speer No. 8 manual from 1970. Performance is astounding, even from snub barrels. We're talking well over 1000 fps. Of course there's no telling the actually pressures at which this load operates.

Or, just purchase Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain ammunition for the same exact level of performance.

I'm personally uninterested in either any lightweight 110-125 grain bullets or any jacketed bullet for use in the 38 Special for serious self defense purposes.
 
I tried some of that SR4756 data in 1971 after I bought the Speer #8 manual. Very hot loads and it only took a few to realize something wasn't right. I suspect that data was not pressure tested, but I don't know that to be a fact. Perhaps others know. Use current data only; much safer.
 
I struggled with this for years. Some suggested a faster powder, others a smaller bullet. Went as low as 105 grains.

I finally landed on the optimum combo - a 158 grain hard cast SWC and 4227 powder. It would give performance (accuracy) as good as with any of my 4" barrels. Then, I switched to a 3" Chief's Special with the same ammo and it performed as good as my 6" barrels.
 
I use my version of the old FBI load that pushes a 158 grain gas checked, Lead SWC-HP around 1000fps using 2400 powder, out of my M64 snub nose.
 
Your best velocity from a short barrel will come from powder that give you the best velocity in longer barrels. If you intend to load your own self defense ammo I'd suggest using W231, Unique or AA5 because at the pressures of the .38 spl, +P or not, these powders produce some of the best velocities you can get and will match +P velocity of factory loaded ammo.

For a self defense load it is best to get a good bullet with proven track record. I like 125gr Remington Golden Sabers, 125 to 135 Speer Gold Dots or 158gr LSWCHP's. The Remington half jacket HP's in 125gr also have a good record in short barrels. If you are simply looking for velocity use the current max published load data for the bullets you use. No point in working up a load and watching for pressure in the modest pressure .38 spl as long as you stay with current data published by the bullet manufacturers. All bets are off it you use old data for old bullets with current manufactured bullets and primers.

If you need to push beyond the factory +P velocities in the .38 spl then it would be better to simply get a snub nose in .357 mag.
 
A good DEWC at 800 FPS will do.
I like the Double Taps DEWC wadcutter load gets an honest 750fps out of a 2inch.
 
"...fast burner like Tite Group ".
Sorry I miss read your post, thought you were using that powder.

The faster powders in my snub did not do well with a +p load.This included Bullseye and w231.
Unique over 5.9grs for some reason did not calm down to low ES and accuracy was not there for me.
Universal clays did better than Unique but I ran out of powder to do more test. ( 889fps poa )
Never got to Blue Dot or 2400 since Green Dot of all things,got to +P with accuracy and also poa!! (903 fps poa )
No reason to use 2.6 to 6.6grs more powder than needed.

There is a reason Alliant and Speer start out with Unique as the fastest powder for +P loads.................I just got lucky with Green Dot and my chrony to keep me out of trouble.

In the heavier bullets Unique and Blue Dot were all over the faster burning powders for fps and accuracy.

Good loading.
 
I've recently started loading Power Pistol in my .38 Specials with 158 gr LSWC hardcast. I did my chrono work with a 4" 586 and a 2.5" 19. The recommended max is 5.4 gr and the 586 averaged 884 fps and the 19 797fps with SD's of 18 and 14. I stayed under max +P at 5.8 gr. (max is 6 gr) and that returned 958 fps avg (10 rounds) with a 12 SD and 36 ES in the 586. I didn't have enough with me to chrono in the 2.5" model 19 but it sure looks like it will be well over 800 fps. Mixed brass, Winchester primers.
Stu
 
Well, since I started this thread, I'll update on my latest findings. As I said earlier, I packed up some +P rounds of 125 gr JHP (Montana Gold) over 4.9 gr of Tite Group (max 5.0). At the range these were dead-on awesome in my 4.5" bbl. GP100 at 25yds. In the 1.8" LCR, (normal sight pic and 6:00 hold), point of impact was basically the same, no drop-off, at same distance, which I took as amazing! Sorry, no chrono data to support.
Tite Group is right up there with Bullseye on the burn-rate chart (#14 and 13 resp. out of 145 smokeless powders ranked fast to slow by Hodgdon). I'm sticking with the rationale that light bullets (lower inertia) and short bbls both spell fast-burning powder to max-out pressure curve, achieve max muzzle velocity before bullet is expended.
 
I'm not a big fan of jacketed bullets in the 38 spl but the +P 125 gr
HP loads are very popular for SD carry in the J frame snubs. Remington
factory 125 gr +P Golden Saber HPs chronograph 872 fps out of the
1 7/8" barrel of my md 60-7. I loaded a few 38s with Sierra 125 gr
JHPs with the goal of equaling the velocity of the Remington load.
I used Bullseye and W231. I was able to approximate the Remington
factory load velocity with 5.0 grs of Bullseye or 5.8 grs of W231.
 
I bought another box of 110 XTP for my BG38. It shoots high, so these hit point of aim. I loaded 5 rounds with a +P load of 7.0 grains Unique.
5 more +P 6.3 WW 231. RP nickel cases, Federal Primers.

My Crony only saw one shot of the unique. 1070 fps. all 5 shots felt consistent.

It only saw 2 shots of the WW 231 load. 892 fps and 914.

It was getting dark, that why the crony had a hard time.

The fireball from the 231 was immense. I didn't notice anything from the unique.

I have been loading max charge of Blue dot. Sticking with that. Not a +P load. Velocity is almost up to the +p unique load with a high ES.

These are not for every day shooting. I have standard lead loads for that.

Tomorrow I will crony the Blue Dot loads when the light comes back.

David
 
Using handloads for self defense is often recommended against. It will open a lot of doors for questions, in the event that you end up in a court room, either civilly or criminally...that you will not be wanting to answer. While practicing with handloads that give good performance is a great idea, you might want to purchase a box or two of Speer 135 grain short barrel for carrying. It's factory, very accurate, and maximized for snubbies or barrels 4" or less. It also won't cause you to have an answer any questions about why you chose to handload high performance ammunition rather than buy something?
 
They had a box of 20 110 gr SD loads at the shop I bought the bullets. I thought of that. I could shoot 10 to see where they hit and keep the other 10. All for the price of the 100 XTP I bought. With a little luck, I will never use them.

Thanks for the thoughts.
David
 
flintsghost said:
Using handloads for self defense is often recommended against. It will open a lot of doors for questions, in the event that you end up in a court room, either civilly or criminally...that you will not be wanting to answer. While practicing with handloads that give good performance is a great idea, you might want to purchase a box or two of Speer 135 grain short barrel for carrying. It's factory, very accurate, and maximized for snubbies or barrels 4" or less. It also won't cause you to have an answer any questions about why you chose to handload high performance ammunition rather than buy something?
Click to expand...

I'll continue to load my own. I hear this all the time but never have seen proof of anyone convicted because they loaded there own ammo. If it is a righteous shoot you've nothing to worry about. That being said if they want to go after you they will go after you.
Oh and I would bet that most +P factory loads are around 800 fps and to me that is a little on the weak side. Especially when a 800 fps 135 grain 38 delivers around 191 fpe. Or a 135 grain bullet at 850 delivers about 216 fpe.

JMO yours will surely vary.
 
You mentioned fast vs slow powders with the 148gr wc for target use.......
One of my loads back in 11/17/2008 with a 148 wc out of my M19
was with 5.5 grs of w571 (HS6) and had a cluster of ten bullets touching out of 12.
Sort of a waste of powder but still a good group..........today I use just 2.7 grs of Bullseye or 3.1grs of w231.
 
I love 38s and I love loading for them. When people talk self defense, they frequently mention the Speer 135gr Short BBl 38/357 or 44Short BBl loads.

I find it extremely frustrating to live 25 miles from the Speer factory and have 3 regional sporting goods retailers within that 25 mile radius as well as one national retailer and no one has seen or stocked any Speer Short Barrel ammo of any caliber since 2009. I have friends and relatives that work at Speer and they can't purchase the ammo either.

So I build 38 Spl ammo that is loaded for accuracy and for velocity and efficiency on soft tissue targets. The quest continues. The 158grain Lead Semi Wadcutter is my favorite instrument for the above three criteria. Unique and Universal are the 158s friend. Good loading and shooting.
 
For defensive use in .38Spls , I use primarily W-W 158 LHP , but I did have a box of Gold Dot 135's pre crisis. I stick to factory ammo for SD use. While I have best supply of W-W , the R-P , Fed, and CCI versions all substantially similar.

To duplicate those loads , Speer 158 LHP bullets with 5.3gr 231 will match or exceede factory loads. In the 1980s this was published max , but some recent sources have dropped a cpl tenths.

If you want signifigently more power , you need somthing bigger than a 2in .38 .
 
I am going to buy that box of 20 rounds for $20 and chronograph them this weekend. I will report how they work compared to my 110 jhp with a full charge of Blue Dot. I am getting av 1050 fps which is 269 fpe. This is not +P from a 2" revolver.

David
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Velocity differences between revolver barrel lengths 38 special
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
Zeke38
Zeke38
J
38 S&W loads and cases
Replies
13
Views
290
ClickBang!
ClickBang!
A
.38 Special LSWCHP +P FBI load
2 3
Replies
54
Views
5K
rockquarry
R
Dump1567
.38 Special Ammo Velocity Comparisons: Historical vs. Modern
2 3
Replies
46
Views
2K
38SPL HV
38SPL HV
RevV67
Ammo for Bodyguard 2.0 Range Report
Replies
8
Views
487
RevV67
RevV67

Latest posts

Back
Top