I have noticed out here in Cali. that the same gun with a lock does not sell as quickly or for as much as the same model without the lock. Is this nationwide I wonder? I wonder if S&W is rethinking that lock, they are definitely loosing money on new sales. I am NOT complaining about the lock just making an observation. Do I like the lock, well no but who really does it seems like.
LOCK AFFECTING SALES?
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bigggbbruce
Member
Among collectors pre lock is first on the buy list.
Every where in the US today any possible source is searched constantly.
I know a pawnshop local that has enough collectable S&W's I'd go broke.
Every where in the US today any possible source is searched constantly.
I know a pawnshop local that has enough collectable S&W's I'd go broke.
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
I like both. In nickel it's a plus either way. Older no loc is ok, newer with the loc is good too either way it's s&w history.
Without getting into my preference (which everyone already knows), I'm sure it has affected revolver sales greatly. I have a habit of watching the inventories of certain local dealers very closely. It's amazing to see how fast used pre-IL revolvers sell and how slow a brand new IL revolver will linger. And I'm talking model for model here... not a super popular model vs. a less popular one... and reasonably competitive pricing.
My theory is that S&W has unfortunately backed themselves into a "PC"/cover-your-butt-liability-wise corner from which they don't feel they can easily escape. They can't just suddenly start calling all their revolvers "professional models" and eliminate the IL.
I think folks would see through that sham pretty easily. 
I think it's nationwide. I know many people who, like me, simply will not buy a S&W revolver if it has the lock. I actually did briefly own a 629 with a lock and although it was satisfactory otherwise I could not rid my mind of the worry it would lock spontaneously. So I sold it. The problem is compounded by the fact that S&W originally swore the lock could not cause problems, which of course proved to be a falsehood. I don't think anyone trusts the locks now.
Cheers,
Whisper
Cheers,
Whisper
BigBill
Absent Comrade
When my LGS dropped the prices on the new s&w N frames to $599/$699 the case that was full sold out in no time. Is the loc or the cost?
I can think of no instance where the lock is preferred over none.
When someone says their revolver is a "pre lock" that is a positive selling point.
When someone says their revolver is a "pre lock" that is a positive selling point.
Kernel Crittenden
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
The lock has been with us for almost 15 years now. What ever effect is has on sales is fully "cooked in" to S&W corporate sales and marketing numbers. Obviously, they think the current situation is satisfactory. When you can sale every gun you make, and you're working at full production, what's there to complain about?
SweetMK
Member
In my opinion,,, the lock is having zero effect on the sale of new guns,,
Yea, there is the guy who walks into the LGS and says:
"No S&W revolver with a lock for me, thank you!!"
The problem around me is that EVERY new S&W revolver is already sold before it hits the LGS,,,
The effect the lock IS having is to drive up the cost of "no lock" guns.
That,, is just part of the hobby,,,,
Yea, there is the guy who walks into the LGS and says:
"No S&W revolver with a lock for me, thank you!!"
The problem around me is that EVERY new S&W revolver is already sold before it hits the LGS,,,
The effect the lock IS having is to drive up the cost of "no lock" guns.
That,, is just part of the hobby,,,,
Unless you are shopping for a medium-large frame 5 shot .44 Magnum then the math is:
3 screw with lock & MIM > pre-War > 5 screw > 4 screw > 3 screw pinned & recessed > 3 Screw pre-lock & pre-MIM
bountyhunter
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From what I have seen, SW is selling their limit and their stock price is way up. Much of that is luck because of the constant panic buying caused by gun control fears from the current administration but I don't see any problem with SW sales.
Their stock price over last five years is up about 10X:
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Vulcan Bob
Member
For all J and K frames a lock is unacceptable, all steel L and N frame revolvers locks are acceptable. I think the high prices on the new ones are the problem, you can get a no lock vintage model in most cases for less.
I've owned a couple w/the lock and it was never a problem. Eventually they were sold b/c the lock is just ugly and spoils the lines of a classic firearm. I would never carry a lock revolver for self defense, the idea that it could go wrong at the moment of truth is just too much for me.
gnappi
Member
Personally I don't care about the lock. I shoot what I buy. Give it time... when even lock guns become scarce all of a sudden they will become ok.
Jingles
Member
I hesitated for years before buying a gun with a lock. I probably missed out on some good guns. I still hate them, hate being forced to wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, etc., but if I want to play the game I follow the rules.
That said I still prefer pre-locks, but it is because I think that era were made with more craftsmanship. I also hate our Cali LCI, but I got over that too.
That said I still prefer pre-locks, but it is because I think that era were made with more craftsmanship. I also hate our Cali LCI, but I got over that too.
Good point... the prices on the S&W at my LGS start at $800+ and goes quickly North to the $1800 mark for the 500 Magnums. They haven't moved, but it's a different matter for the Rugers.
I also think the issue might be more of S&W's quality control issues soiling their reputation that the lock. 5 years ago the forum was dominated by lock related posts, now you're more likely to read about a new gun having a non-lock issue right out of the chute affecting functionality/performance.
Clocked barrels, canted front sights, large groupings...
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clayflingythingy
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OP,
Go look at the Annual Manufacturers & Export reports. Your idea is not supported by the data.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
Go look at the Annual Manufacturers & Export reports. Your idea is not supported by the data.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
DocB
Member
Yeah, the lock has hurt sales on the revolvers, as well as all the other major changes they made during the 1990's. I stop my buying around 1992-1993 when the changes were about to begin. With the semi-autos, they are what they are. They were taking off in the early 1990's. There wasn't a lot to change from or to. Although, I do prefer an old WWII German P38 to all of them even though they are bit heavy.
I wanted a M617 with 4" barrel, no lock. GunBroker prices 2 years ago were $1,000 range. My LGS had a 10-shot with a lock, missing rear sight for $350, and large red dot sight. Found rear sight assembly on S&W website for $100+ and bought the revolver. For the modest sum of $550 savings, I'll live with the lock.
I have no plans to buy a new S&W firearm, but there is always the possibility that a "new" used one could find its way home to the herd. This weekend my 1983 S&W 1500 just became a magazine fed 10-round varmint shooter with a plastic trigger guard. I be happy.
I have no plans to buy a new S&W firearm, but there is always the possibility that a "new" used one could find its way home to the herd. This weekend my 1983 S&W 1500 just became a magazine fed 10-round varmint shooter with a plastic trigger guard. I be happy.
"LOCK AFFECTING SALES?" quote OP
To me and a few of my friends that is a fact!
To me and a few of my friends that is a fact!
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Love threads like these.......think I'll go fondle my no lock pretties.
One thing I have seen though is te ridiculous pricing of all revolvers these days. I remember when $300 was average price of a good S&W service revolver with adjustable sigts. Now it seems that the price range for the stock revolvers is between $650 and $1000. THAT"S PRETTY FREAKING EXPENSIVE. I's be hard pressed to buy ANY revolver for that amount whether it had the lock or not. 4" service grade revolvers (like the GP100 and 686) are running $650 and up-that's a lot of money. 44's are even more. Not to say that the 1911's hae not gone gaga with their pricing either-but I got to tell ya, if I were a gansta looking for heat or even Joe Blow average guy who is going to buy a gun before the ban it would be something plastic over a steel revolver costing 2-300 more. And as far as rifles-fugataboutit. A Ruger AR556 or a S&W15 Sport II over a nicely stocked bolt gun. Ruger got that memo witness their American Series. Try finding a regular 77 on a gun rack or for that matter a regular old BDL 700. They are building to a price point and it's got nothing to do with the Lock.
One thing I have seen though is te ridiculous pricing of all revolvers these days. I remember when $300 was average price of a good S&W service revolver with adjustable sigts. Now it seems that the price range for the stock revolvers is between $650 and $1000. THAT"S PRETTY FREAKING EXPENSIVE. I's be hard pressed to buy ANY revolver for that amount whether it had the lock or not. 4" service grade revolvers (like the GP100 and 686) are running $650 and up-that's a lot of money. 44's are even more. Not to say that the 1911's hae not gone gaga with their pricing either-but I got to tell ya, if I were a gansta looking for heat or even Joe Blow average guy who is going to buy a gun before the ban it would be something plastic over a steel revolver costing 2-300 more. And as far as rifles-fugataboutit. A Ruger AR556 or a S&W15 Sport II over a nicely stocked bolt gun. Ruger got that memo witness their American Series. Try finding a regular 77 on a gun rack or for that matter a regular old BDL 700. They are building to a price point and it's got nothing to do with the Lock.
springer99
Member
IMHO, most of the people buying S&W J frames in my area don't know the difference between those with locks and the few without. They all seem to fly off the shelves as quickly either way. K and N frames sit around a lot longer, but not because of the locks. Most buyers are looking for polymer auto's, since they're much cheaper than a quality revolver.
Lower the price enough and people will buy anything.
With S&W revolver costs running so high, I'd want to be doubly-danged-sure that I was getting exactly the gun I want with no compromises.
And you know what that means. 
Another way to look at it: if S&W changed all production to no-lock, the value of any remaining stock with locks would plummet; and the value of 15 years of used guns with locks woukd drop dramatically too. So it would be a tough transition.
Its hard to figure why S&W has made a bunch of no-lock J's over the past couple of years! A test? Nostalgia?
Like most, I prefer no-locks, but the few revolvers I have with locks have been 'fixed' such that they will never jam because of the lock. So aesthetics are still an issue, but reliability is not.
Its hard to figure why S&W has made a bunch of no-lock J's over the past couple of years! A test? Nostalgia?
Like most, I prefer no-locks, but the few revolvers I have with locks have been 'fixed' such that they will never jam because of the lock. So aesthetics are still an issue, but reliability is not.
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I've got two steel J-frame 357s with the lock, and I haven't had any problems with them. Some folks may worry about it, but a company that sells everything it builds isn't going to sweat it. S&W doesn't make money from used gun sales.
My Model 29 has a lock, too. No problems with it, although I prefer to shoot it as a souped-up 44 special.
My Model 29 has a lock, too. No problems with it, although I prefer to shoot it as a souped-up 44 special.
Rigor Mortis
Member
They may be selling but not to me
Lou_the_welder
Member
Nope.
But reading in these forums seem to fuel the fear of the dreaded lock; and its presumed ability to one day fail when needed the most. Hey! Let's sit around and talk more about the zombie apocalypse, earthquake, tornado, act of god that one day may in fact ; justify all the worried about defending themselves with a firearm, equipped with the infernal lock!
So nope!
They aren't even worried!
The cliques in these forums disdain of any lock on a firearm are creating the rise in pre-lock firearms prices by educating other forum members to hate locks for their "unnecessary, unuseful, ugly, fill in the blank" doctrine!
You all know its true
Which brings those pre-lock prices up!
But hey, whatdoiknow!
But reading in these forums seem to fuel the fear of the dreaded lock; and its presumed ability to one day fail when needed the most. Hey! Let's sit around and talk more about the zombie apocalypse, earthquake, tornado, act of god that one day may in fact ; justify all the worried about defending themselves with a firearm, equipped with the infernal lock!
So nope!
They aren't even worried!
The cliques in these forums disdain of any lock on a firearm are creating the rise in pre-lock firearms prices by educating other forum members to hate locks for their "unnecessary, unuseful, ugly, fill in the blank" doctrine!
You all know its true
Which brings those pre-lock prices up!
But hey, whatdoiknow!
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