Looking at an ar

[ameridaddy]

Super - you mentioned you might use it for hunting. Check your game laws for minimum caliber. Here in Virginia, for deer hunting, a rifle must be at least .23 caliber, if rifle hunting is allowed at all. Some places allow nothing but shotgun.

 

[C J]

CJ, I don't think we can realistically compare a bolt gun specifically built for long range shooting to an AR. Again, yes, your rifle, the single example, may stabilize the 75 gr, but the likelihood of a 16" AR barrel with a 1:9 twist not being able to stabilize a 75 gr is is much higher than getting one that will. If you are going to shoot longer projectiles in an AR, you are better off with a faster twist, plain and simple.

I think Savage agrees as well, since they also offer the same rifle in a 1:7 twist.

I can see where a shorter barrel requires a faster twist for heavier bullets. But the word was that Savage built the 1:7 version of the LRPV for 79 gr. bullets. Every source I found at the time said the 1:9 would do 75gr. or very close to it. It doesn't matter. I just wanted to show that 1:9 can work in some sitruations. Maybe I just wanted to show off my target. I don't know. I will say I saw some AR's on the 500 yard range that weren't doing terrible or anything. I really don't know what twist rate they had.

 

[superdutyscaler]

We can't hunt in new jersey with rifles, they say the area of the state is too small. I was looking online and might just build a gun, then I could make it how I want but all I need is a gun that looks like the ones I posted but I'm still undecided and will do a ton of research before I make my final decision

 

[superdutyscaler]

 

[cyphertext]

Is there a question tied to this? Also, this is a rifle with a 20" barrel and fixed stock, where you have previously been looking at carbines with 16" barrels and collapsible stocks.

 

[superdutyscaler]

Well you told me to do research and I can't find a 1:8 barrel from s&w or colt. The s&w rifles from what I have now found out and getting made with **** material. Inferior barrel lining now and cheaply assembly (all online info not my own) I did think about it and I don't need a collapsible stock (I'm not in the Marines or army nor in combat so why do I need a stock that's only 6"? I also thought about what you asked about hunting with the gun, I want it for plinking but to change my answer yes I will most likely use it for hunting. Like my above post I want to go hog hunting so a lot of places use a helicopter and having the 20" barrel will greatly increase on point after firing and should help with balance and bullet spin across the grains

 

[Racer X]

Super - you mentioned you might use it for hunting. Check your game laws for minimum caliber. Here in Virginia, for deer hunting, a rifle must be at least .23 caliber, if rifle hunting is allowed at all. Some places allow nothing but shotgun.

Washington is .243 or better. Unless it is varmit eradication.

 

[sgtsandman]

Well you told me to do research and I can't find a 1:8 barrel from s&w or colt. The s&w rifles from what I have now found out and getting made with **** material. Inferior barrel lining now and cheaply assembly (all online info not my own) I did think about it and I don't need a collapsible stock (I'm not in the Marines or army nor in combat so why do I need a stock that's only 6"? I also thought about what you asked about hunting with the gun, I want it for plinking but to change my answer yes I will most likely use it for hunting. Like my above post I want to go hog hunting so a lot of places use a helicopter and having the 20" barrel will greatly increase on point after firing and should help with balance and bullet spin across the grains

I'm not sure what you are looking for in barrel lining. Chrome, while good isn't the rule to go by anymore. Nitride and melonite are just as good and in some cases better than chrome. Chrome barrel lining isn't as thick and can flake over time. Chrome in the bolt carrier group is still desirable.

The collapsible stock may still be desirable for hunting in different seasons to allow for heavier clothing but I don't know where you live, so that may not apply.

Ballistically speaking, 20" is the most desirable though you may want to consider 18" as an option since the loss in performance is minimal.

I'm not trying to talk you out of your preferences, only presenting things to think about.


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[osbornk]

Super - you mentioned you might use it for hunting. Check your game laws for minimum caliber. Here in Virginia, for deer hunting, a rifle must be at least .23 caliber, if rifle hunting is allowed at all. Some places allow nothing but shotgun.

I'm also in Virginia and it bothers me that I can't use my AR15 to hunt deer. I have always hunted deer with 00 buck shot that is less effective than my AR but legal. If I wanted to go hunting now, I would use my 12 gauge with sabot slugs in my rifled barrel with rifle sights. The range and accuracy is far less but it is legal.

I suspect the requirement was aimed at 22lr and 22 mag and 223 or 5.56 never crossed their mind.

 

[superdutyscaler]

Maybe I should just look into building my own ar?

 

[Flash_80]

Why would you want to hunt deer with a .223/5.56 anyway? Yeah, you can kill them, but how often do you expect to find them? I mean, if you had a different upper in a more deer appropriate caliber, I can understand, but thats too small of a bullet. Gun forum, you may get some support, on a hunting forum, not so much.

 

[cyphertext]

Maybe I should just look into building my own ar?

Why don't you list the specs you want, and we can guide you better... If you are looking at sites that are saying that S&W is built with inferior parts, you probably need to consider the source. You also need to understand that S&W has many different models that can get you 4150 barrel steel if that is what you want. They have different models that have 1:7, 1:8, or 1:9 twist. If you can't find a 1:8 twist from S&W, you haven't been looking!

I also wouldn't count a model that didn't have the carry handle out... Carry handles can be added to any flat top model and honestly, I don't understand the desire to have a full carry handle, especially for a hunting rig... and double especially if you are shooting hogs from a helicopter... hogs are moving too fast, as well as the chopper for you to use that type of sight. A red dot is used for that type of shooting. (Helicopter "hunts" aren't hunts in the traditional sense. They are hog eradication, not harvesting the animal for meat.)

 

[sgtsandman]

Maybe I should just look into building my own ar?

You could and then get exactly what you want. Just keep in mind building your own rifle isn't necessarily going to be cheaper. Especially if you factor in tools.

I built my own and I'm mostly happy with it. Other than the trigger, it's pretty much what I want.

Let us know what you are looking for in parts and we can steer you to the right rifle or components to make your own.


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[cyphertext]

Why would you want to hunt deer with a .223/5.56 anyway? Yeah, you can kill them, but how often do you expect to find them? I mean, if you had a different upper in a more deer appropriate caliber, I can understand, but thats too small of a bullet. Gun forum, you may get some support, on a hunting forum, not so much.

Totally depends on where you are hunting and size of deer. A good bullet designed for hunting, proper bullet placement, and limiting shots to 150 yds or less will drop a west Texas white tailed deer without issue. Kills hogs dead too.

However, if I am on a hunt of a lifetime and have a chance at some huge trophy buck... yeah, I want a .30 caliber.

 

[Flash_80]

Its still a stupid idea regardless. I've double lung punched small deer with a 25.06 and lost them before. Twice the size bullet at nearly the same velocity. You're money ahead not to use something that small unless you're such a good shot that you're headshooting them or something. I'm not big on a .243 either, though many a deer have fallen to them.

 

[cyphertext]

Its still a stupid idea regardless. I've double lung punched small deer with a 25.06 and lost them before. Twice the size bullet at nearly the same velocity. You're money ahead not to use something that small unless you're such a good shot that you're headshooting them or something. I'm not big on a .243 either, though many a deer have fallen to them.

This is very old school thinking. Twenty years ago, most would agree with you. However today, there has been a lot of advancement with bullet design and technology. To kill deer, you need a bullet to hit with enough velocity to expand and penetrate through bone and tissue to hit vital organs... a good hunting round will do just that! Go read up on Barnes TSX bullets, or Federal Fusion. I've used them on hogs... if it will drop a hog, it will drop a deer.

 

[Pro2nd]

I remember like it was yesterday..

1985.. I stopped into a hunting and fishing store to pick up some .30 cal. (For my M1 Carbine).. I was going to be going to an area called dead mans swamp, where it is very tight.. you are not going to be firing at a deer anymore then MAYBE 50 yards tops.. and that would be rare as can be in that area..

was only about a week before deer season..

Anyway..

Guy behind the counter ask (not that it was his bizz anyway, but) He ask what I was going to do with that?

I said deer hunt..

He then proceeded to try and lecture me about how that is too small to deer hunt with, aint gonna work etc..

I can only imagine that dudes lecture had I walked in to get 223-5.56 ammo..

Not saying yeah or nay on hunting with an AR, Just a random story from the past..

P.s.. he was WRONG LOL

 

[sgtsandman]

This is very old school thinking. Twenty years ago, most would agree with you. However today, there has been a lot of advancement with bullet design and technology. To kill deer, you need a bullet to hit with enough velocity to expand and penetrate through bone and tissue to hit vital organs... a good hunting round will do just that! Go read up on Barnes TSX bullets, or Federal Fusion. I've used them on hogs... if it will drop a hog, it will drop a deer.

Just make sure it's a good, heavy round too. Something 69 grains or more should be good. Whatever your particular rifle barrel twist rate will support and stabilize properly.


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[cyphertext]

Just make sure it's a good, heavy round too. Something 69 grains or more should be good. Whatever your particular rifle barrel twist rate will support and stabilize properly.


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The Barnes TSX in 55 gr has been reported to be very successful on deer. All copper bullet that retains nearly 100% of its weight. a 1:9 twist can stabilize this round.

Many wild hogs have died from .223... not sure why folks think it will kill hogs fine but not deer.

 

[sgtsandman]

The Barnes TSX in 55 gr has been reported to be very successful on deer. All copper bullet that retains nearly 100% of its weight. a 1:9 twist can stabilize this round.



Many wild hogs have died from .223... not sure why folks think it will kill hogs fine but not deer.

Interesting and thank you. I still depend on my .30-30 Winchester and .45/70 Govt. chambered lever guns for hunting, so I depend on what others tell me for rounds outside of those for medium sized game.


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[cyphertext]

Interesting and thank you. I still depend on my .30-30 Winchester and .45/70 Govt. chambered lever guns for hunting, so I depend on what others tell me for rounds outside of those for medium sized game.


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Little thread drift here, but have you tried the Hornady Lever evolution rounds in your rifles? Gives those lever guns a little more punch and range as well.

 

[sgtsandman]

Little thread drift here, but have you tried the Hornady Lever evolution rounds in your rifles? Gives those lever guns a little more punch and range as well.

I have not since I woods and brush hunt. Ranges beyond 100 yards are rare. Thus why I stick with the lever guns.


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[Whitwabit]

I would only recommend this rifle if you like it just the way it comes out of the box and would not want to change out anything on it. Add an optic, sling, and light at most and call it a day.

If you want different hand guards, a different stock, or free float barrel, then do not get this particular rifle. You would be paying for Magpul accessories that you plan to replace.

Reason I went with a Tactical model was it was set up with quad rails and Magpul sights .. only need to add the rail accessories like a red dot, flash lite/laser combo .. front grip .. a couple of QD attachment points and a sling and will be done .. maybe .. I won't have a box of parts I have taken off that there is no market for ..

 

[Whitwabit]

Be very very careful what you believe out of a salesman's mouth when you have money jingling in your pocket and a salesman wants to make a sale !!

 

[marathonrunner]

Well you told me to do research and I can't find a 1:8 barrel from s&w or colt. The s&w rifles from what I have now found out and getting made with **** material. Inferior barrel lining now and cheaply assembly (all online info not my own) I did think about it and I don't need a collapsible stock (I'm not in the Marines or army nor in combat so why do I need a stock that's only 6"? I also thought about what you asked about hunting with the gun, I want it for plinking but to change my answer yes I will most likely use it for hunting. Like my above post I want to go hog hunting so a lot of places use a helicopter and having the 20" barrel will greatly increase on point after firing and should help with balance and bullet spin across the grains

I recently purchased a Sport 2 because I wanted something cheap and just a range toy. Out of all the entry level AR's, I picked up the MP Sport 2 for $499. At the local gun store where I shoot, they have a rental unit that has well over 10K rounds and it has never failed and the barrel still shoots fine. Mine has never malfunctioned or jammed once.

The fit and finish on my Sport 2 is also very good, no dings, scratches, blemishes. The upper and lower are tight and snug. My only gripe is the factory did not align the indexing tube perfectly so my handguard is slightly canted. The bolt carrier, however slides in and out of my receiver like butter so the mis alignment is not a problem for me. and the iron sights are perfect, didn't even have to zero it out of the box.

My Sport II is not a Noveske of course, but I will be willing to bet it will last a very long time. by the way I did modify my Sport II to the hilt. It even has a velocity 3.0 match trigger.

 

[Hotshot9]

To OP You just got bombarded with info. For what your going to use your rifle for... just get what you like the only thing I would suggest is the middle of the road 1/8 twist. Also look at "Sportsman outdoor super store" before you purchase your rifle. They have some great deals and always free shipping. I have bought many guns from them with zero problems. Good Luck !