Looking to buy a rifle for 300-600 yards

[Ivan the Butcher]

Back to the thread drift of a straight wall cartridge over 300 yards. 45-70, 45-90, & 45-110 plus 50-90 (the bigger 50's are not needed in North or South America!)

Type of rifle to accurately shoot these rounds? Sharp's or 1885 are the two most common actions still made. Can be scoped or Long Range Venire sights. Winchester and Browning 1885's are drilled for modern scope bases and rings! Montana Vintage Arms iron sights are good enough that Tom Selleck actually made the "Bucket" shot in Quigley Down Under!

For Ammo both Sharp's and 1885's can use Black Powder or smokeless ammo, but avoid jacketed projectiles.

Ivan

 

[LittleCooner]

The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target round to punch paper and make steel ring. great choice for long distance shooting, very poor choice for long distance hunting of big game. Also that 3x9 for work at 600, no way. If doing hunting, min of one of the 4.5-14 scopes and if target work, go with one of those with more power that the 14x. My favorite round for long distance hunting is the 280 AI. great down range preformance on game at that distance. If you are looking to punch paper or ring steel at that range, the 6 Creedmoore is a better selection. You did not state your budget range on a rifle. If I was going with an out of the box "regular" rifle, I would go with the Winchester model 70, the old control round feed and the guns today are top notch.

 

[hittman77]

Weatherby MK-V in 257 Weatherby Magnum

Remington 700 in 222 Remington Magnum

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Sounds to me like a problem a good scout rifle in .308 could solve handily . . .

Works for me!!!!



My M1A1



Got a case or two of match, plus 4 or 5 tins of mil surp left



And to see where I'm going at night, I think I have around 300 or so tracers left.


WuzzFuzz

 

[Muss Muggins]

Weatherby MK-V in 257 Weatherby Magnum

Remington 700 in 222 Remington Magnum

There ain’t a round of either of those calibers available for purchase within 200 miles of here . . .

 

[crazyphil]

I don't know if Winchester rifles are as good as they were years ago.
I had a pre 64 Winchester model 70 with a 4 power Weaver scope on
it, and I never missed anything I shot at. Back in the 1950s there were
a lot of 1903 Springfields on the surplus market. My Dad bought one
and put a Bishop stock on it, and gave it to me when I returned from
service in the Air Force. I couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with
it, so I traded it on the Winchester 30:06. If they are as good now as
they were then, they can't be beat.

 

[mtgianni]

If I were to assemble a rifle for 300-600 yard shooting I would go with a 6.5-06 Ackley. Dies are not overly expensive, a good chamber reamer is fairly available and you have the advantage of the 6.5 flight ballistics. You can push a 142 gr bullet about 600 fps faster than a Creedmore. That is only important in that in minimizes sight adjustments. We have shot 30-06 with 220 gr cast bullets @2000 fps on 500 yard targets, it just takes a lot of hold over.

IMO, look to build one rather than buy one.

 

[H Richard]

I have done a fair amount of 300-600 yard shooting, for Prairie Dogs out West. Remington 700 VS, Heavy Barrel. In 22-250, with load chronographed at 3560 FPS with a 55 gr Nosler BT. But I have used either a 5-18X Leupold or a 6.5-20 Nikon Monarch. Nothing less than 12 or 14X at those distances unless you have very young eye's.

It will all depend on what you plan to shoot with it to determine the caliber.

 

[peyton]

I think others agree that your optics should be priced equal to your rifle, or close to it. Having a bargain basement scope at 100 yards might be OK but when you stretch those shots to way out there you'll need quality.
It's worth it and will add enjoyment. All you got to ask your self then is
"How did I mess that shot up"

 

[Birdhunter6]

I am a Remington 700 guy, but for best value out of the box the guys who shoot on my range like the Savage bolts with the Accutrigger. For target shooting out to 600 either the .308 or 6.5 Creed will do fine in a good rifle with the right ammo..

Beyond 700 the 6.5 will out perform the .308. I once got to shoot my plain jane HB 700 in .308 out to 1000. I was very happy with it's performance. My buddy was shooting a custom 6.5 Creed. My rifle shot right with his out to 700. There is not a lot of difference in our marksmanship. Beyond 700 his groups were smaller and his adjustments for windage and elevation were less.

When that rifle went up for sale I bit the bullet and paid the money. I've only got 460 yards here at home, but when I get a chance to shoot longer I'm ready.

 

[AJ]

Any good bolt action rifle in 30-06, .308 or 6.5X55 MM would do the job for your endeavors. The 30-06 or .308 would be easy to find ammo for most anywhere. The 6.5X55 MM has been a military round dating from the 1890's. The Swedes use to use the 6.5X55 MM for civilian target shooting and their matches started at 300 meters with iron sights. In the Corps we were trained to hit targets at 200, 300, and 500 yards with iron sights. My first time qualifying was with the M-14 in 7.62X51 (.308). I use a Swedish CG 63 in 6.5X55 MM for target shooting now, but only at 200 yards as that is the furthest our local range has.

 

[diyj98]

I need some input on which rifle and which caliber to buy for shooting at distances of 300-600 yards. The 6.5 Creedmore comes to mind and also the .308. I've had Remington BDL (223) varmint rifles that performed very well. I hear Savage makes a good long range rifle too. Of course the rifle would be topped with a quality 3-9x scope. Your opinions please.

I'm guessing you're paper punching, so I'd give up on the 3-9X scope. Get something that goes up to 12x or 14x minimum and an adjustable objective is must have for accurate target shooting.

The 6.5 Creedmore would work for sure, but I'm set in my ways and still like the 308.

Everybody has their favorite brands, but I've never really got that accruacy out of Savage rifles that we read so much about. My pick of the affordable rifles would be either a Tikka or a Weatherby Vanguard.

 

[teletech]

A .270 will drop a fair bit less than .308 at those ranges so while it's not necessarily more accurate, it's easier to make hits if you misjudge the range or conditions a bit.

 

[Model52guy]

Shot competition long range back in the 80’s. Tried the all from 17 Remington, 220 swift, 308, 30-06, 22-50. Settled on the 25-06. The 120 grain grand slam was the most accurate at the time for me. Usually shot 400 yds. Needed to be able to cover 3 shots with a quarter to win the competition. Used a 24 power scope at the time. You could watch your heart beat in the scope.

 

[John020]

What's your budget ?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My two rifles are the no longer produced, Savage 10 BAS & 110 BA in 308 and 338 Lapua. For a competition/target rifle both of these have more recoil than the 6 & 6.5 mm rounds! They are magazine fed, so the action has more flex than a true single shot.

Looking at the distances involved my 308 does 1/10 MOA and the 338 does 1/4 MOA groups.

At 300 Yards: 308 3/10".......338 3/4"
At 400 Yards: 308 3/8" ........338 1"
At 500 yards: 308 7/16".......338 1 1/4"
At 600 Yards: 308 9/16".......338 1 1/2"

These are all pretty typical of my better days and it can and will go downhill from there!

But a person with a good single shot Like a Savage 12 (1 in 8 twist) in 6mm Bench Rest (Norma) using 106 grain Lapua factory ammo will beat these all day long! And the paper target won't care about the recoil and energy differences!

I also have a Savage 12 (Single Shot, Right Hand Bolt, Left Hand Eject) 26" heavy barreled 223 Rem. With non-standard length hand loads it will do 3" at 1000 (3 shot groups) when it is stocked for BR and 5" with the hunting stock. My personal best with this gun was 7 consecutive M&M's @ 200 yards! I have a 8-25 40mm AO Veri-X III scope on it. This is not bad, but won't win in the big leagues!

Ivan


ETA: The scopes I use for these rifles and distances are big, heavy and expensive! The 308 has a almost 20 year old Nightforce 8-32x 56mm BenchRest model (1/8 MOA clicks). The 338LM has a Nightforce NXF 5.5-22x56mm side focus (1/8 MOA clicks). Both have reticles that are broken into 1 or 2 MOA areas. This allows better "Spotting and Corrections."

When I was buying scopes The difference in 50mm objective lens and 56mm objective lens is about 8 to 10% in cost, and 17% in light gathering ability! If some targets are in the trees, it makes a world of difference!

At the longer distances 1/4 MOA or 1/10 MIL clicks are too course, but out to 600 yards they should work OK.

You want very fine crosshairs. Most Dot scopes, the dot is too big even at 500 yards.

Of course, everything depends on target size. At 600 yards a ground hog is 1 MOA fat by 2 MOA long, a human torso is 2.5x 5 MOA's, and a pack of cigarettes is smaller than .3 x .4 MOA's (and we often shoot that size target at 500 yards!)

Ivan

 

[AJ]

My two rifles are the no longer produced, Savage 10 BAS & 110 BA in 308 and 338 Lapua. For a competition/target rifle both of these have more recoil than the 6 & 6.5 mm rounds! They are magazine fed, so the action has more flex than a true single shot.

Looking at the distances involved my 308 does 1/10 MOA and the 338 does 1/4 MOA groups.

At 300 Yards: 308 3/10".......338 3/4"
At 400 Yards: 308 3/8" ........338 1"
At 500 yards: 308 7/16".......338 1 1/4"
At 600 Yards: 308 9/16".......338 1 1/2"

These are all pretty typical of my better days and it can and will go downhill from there!

But a person with a good single shot Like a Savage 12 (1 in 8 twist) in 6mm Bench Rest (Norma) using 106 grain Lapua factory ammo will beat these all day long! And the paper target won't care about the recoil and energy differences!

I also have a Savage 12 (Single Shot, Right Hand Bolt, Left Hand Eject) 26" heavy barreled 223 Rem. With none standard length hand loads it will do 3" at 1000 (3 shot groups) when it is stocked for BR and 5" with the hunting stock. My personal best with this gun was 7 consecutive M&M's @ 200 yards! I have a 8-25 40mm AO Veri-X III scope on it. This is not bad, but won't win in the big leagues!

Ivan

I will second that Savage can build a good rifle. The target is only at 100 yards and was shot with a Savage M11 with a Nikon 3X9 and is in .223. If I was going to use it at further ranges would put on a 24X or 36X Leupold on it. Bought it used for $350 with the scope.

 

[Oldsalt66]

If OP returns:

.300 Winchester Magnum

Or

7mm Remington Magnum

Scope no less than 15X, with 20X being preferable, the problem being, that if you go for too high of a magnification mirage becomes an issue.

 

[steelslaver]

FOR 300-600 YDS on game I would use and have both a 300WM and a 338WM. You must have a good ballistic coefficient and that starts with a long bullet, on game you need some energy and that means some bullet weight.
Velocity helps but only to a degree. You need to stay super sonic because bad things can happen when bullet goes from duper sonic to subsonic. But after that it is about bullet drop. Even a bullet in the 3000fps muzzle velocity has a bunch of drop for each 100yds past 300. A 3000fps 7mm mag 162 gr BTHP with a ballistic coefficient of .725 zeroed at 400 yds is going to be 13.2" low at 500 . A 168 gr BTHP BC of .550 at 3300fps, a gain of 300fps is going to be 11.5" low at 500 with a 400yd zero so add a good range finder to the cost of rifle and scope and don't forget a bunch of burned up ammo dialing it all in at various ranges.

A 308 can do it yes. The range finder becomes even more critical when you drop that 168BTHP to 2700fps as the 400zero-500strike is now 17.7". Even a 50 yd range miscalculation means around 9" even with perfect hold and perfect accuracy.

You must know you rifle and loads ballistics and you must know the range when you go out past about 350yds even with the fire breathing magnums.


I have heard statements like I am getting a 300 mag so I can make that long shot, my 300 mag shoots flat to 500 yds. bla bla bla. Usually from guys that sight in at 100yds and don't fire 20 rounds a year. I hate those guys out banging away at game.

 

[65Whelen]

Lots of good advise here which means lots of options. First off, for 600 yards you need more scope. I recommend a 6-24X class. If your hunting game the 6.5 Creedmoor is to light at 600 and I've got one. I'd recommend Hornady's big brother to the Creedmoor, the 6.5 PRC. Now here's where I'll catch some flack from the 30 cal. guys, the 6.5 cal. is better than the 30 cal. But, full disclosure, I'm 6.5 bias.

I built my budget 6.5 Creedmoor chassis gun with a Savage action, happy with it. Use, punching paper and whitetail 400 Yards max.