Venom6
Member
I distinctly remember it as being Duane Thomas, so I looked it up, and I am distinctly wrong.I’n pretty sure it was Jeff Cooper. First rule of a gunfight is to have a gun….
Low capacity but probably enough
- Thread starter Mr. Vito
- Start date
duncan4521
Member
Was it Cooper?I distinctly remember it as being Duane Thomas, so I looked it up, and I am distinctly wrong.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,503
- Reaction score
- 6,075
There are about 3 versions of this debate currently active on the Forum. Far more entertaining than what's on the tube.
To distill all this down: never leave home without something in a caliber beginning with "4" that holds a minimum 10 rounds plus at least two reloads, preferably extended snail drum mags in case you encounter a drug-addled psychotic bear who thinks you are romancing his mate and has brought the Hell's Angels and a couple of hundred MS13 thugs as backup and is approaching you from 100 yards. Got it.
After nearly 50 years of nearly daily carry (on and off the job) arthritis, two bum knees and progressively less acute vision have convinced me that much of what I did in my 20s, 30s and 40s I am no longer capable of doing. That and the fact that I no longer go looking for trouble dictate that my daily load out involves fewer guns, less ammo and no body armor. I also no longer keep a shotgun, riot gear, gas mask and Geiger counter in my trunk. If it takes more than 10 rounds I am content to go down fighting. If the 11th round would have changed the outcome, I've lived a long life but never expected to live forever.
Just one more question: unless you are expecting me to protect you, what do you care what I have chosen to carry?
To distill all this down: never leave home without something in a caliber beginning with "4" that holds a minimum 10 rounds plus at least two reloads, preferably extended snail drum mags in case you encounter a drug-addled psychotic bear who thinks you are romancing his mate and has brought the Hell's Angels and a couple of hundred MS13 thugs as backup and is approaching you from 100 yards. Got it.
After nearly 50 years of nearly daily carry (on and off the job) arthritis, two bum knees and progressively less acute vision have convinced me that much of what I did in my 20s, 30s and 40s I am no longer capable of doing. That and the fact that I no longer go looking for trouble dictate that my daily load out involves fewer guns, less ammo and no body armor. I also no longer keep a shotgun, riot gear, gas mask and Geiger counter in my trunk. If it takes more than 10 rounds I am content to go down fighting. If the 11th round would have changed the outcome, I've lived a long life but never expected to live forever.
Just one more question: unless you are expecting me to protect you, what do you care what I have chosen to carry?
Doriangray6
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2025
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 351
"What I'm say is that there are better choices for a totally concealed primary weapon than a 5 shot J frame" Yes and there are also worst choices. So?Didn’t say you did. Spray and pray is the mark of the untrained. One doesn’t preclude the other. You can have good fundamental marksmanship skills, sound tactics and an aggressive mindset and also have the best possible tool to accomplish your goal of winning a gunfight. Now when I say good equipment I am not suggesting a battle belt, chest rig or an open carry holster with six extra 17 round magazines. What I am saying is that there are better choices for a totally concealed primary weapon than a five shot J frame and a speed strip unless you are in a non-permissive environment. To each his own, we all must live with our choices.
Seems like you're one of those folks that will continue to beat a subject like a dead horse for no other reason that to make sure that yours is the last word on the subject.
Oh well, whatever makes you happy.
duncan4521
Member
It’s a general discussion, certainly not centered around you. Furthermore I am quite capable of protecting myself and my family and anyone else where the actions of the perp shocks the conscience. i will reiterate, I believe that there are excellent choices that allow people to be better prepared to win a gunfight besides a low capacity, more difficult to shoot small revolver or for that matter a pocket auto. Anyone can carry what they want, but seeing what is going on in the world a higher capacity pistol gives you a better chance to win a gunfight. No more, no less!
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2023
- Messages
- 617
- Reaction score
- 1,135
Choices choices, we all make them. What am I doing? Where am
I going? What am I wearing? What are the rules? (Should I choose to break them). What are the consequences? (Should I get caught, or exposed due to need.). All of these impact what gets strapped up, tucked in, and carried on any given day. My time out and about typical public places differs greatly from business time and business attire. But, rest assured, I’m armed with something…
I going? What am I wearing? What are the rules? (Should I choose to break them). What are the consequences? (Should I get caught, or exposed due to need.). All of these impact what gets strapped up, tucked in, and carried on any given day. My time out and about typical public places differs greatly from business time and business attire. But, rest assured, I’m armed with something…
"Bring Lawyers, Guns and Money" (Warren Zevon). If 6 rounds in my Highway Patrol .357 aren't enfu.......
duncan4521
Member
It seems to me that you keep replying with your perspective. I thought this was supposed to be a productive discussion? It seems like you are making it personal. I don’t really care what you carry, or what Is your level of training. You can carry an 1851 Navy for all I care. I will try to have the necessary kit and training both mentally and physically to win a gunfight,
Venom6
Member
Arguably.
The wrapper is the guy that got killed and half eaten by the bear.
To each their own. Where we live, work, and play can make a big difference in what we choose to carry.
I don’t base my decisions on statistics, what ifs, probability, or luck.
Because it will be just my luck to have to defend myself against two or more attackers.
Have you noticed the trend the last several years? Young men aren’t men at all. They’re too scared to face you one on one.
And we should also consider the fact that not all crimes are reported.
I carry a high capacity semi auto with one or two reloads. It’s not hard to do. It becomes a way of life. One day at a time.
I don’t base my decisions on statistics, what ifs, probability, or luck.
Because it will be just my luck to have to defend myself against two or more attackers.
Have you noticed the trend the last several years? Young men aren’t men at all. They’re too scared to face you one on one.
And we should also consider the fact that not all crimes are reported.
I carry a high capacity semi auto with one or two reloads. It’s not hard to do. It becomes a way of life. One day at a time.
duncan4521
Member
Absolutely agree, it’s not that hard! Not to be cliche, but better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
fatcat3
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2016
- Messages
- 364
- Reaction score
- 715
I'm firmly in the Claude Warner camp. To paraphrase, With limited time and $ to train, train for the likely not the outliers.
duncan4521
Member
Yes, but the world has changed. The crack head with the sharpened screwdriver has been replaced by a committed terrorist that isn’t afraid to die.
Doriangray6
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2025
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 351
"Seems to me that you keep replying with your perspective" And you're not?It seems to me that you keep replying with your perspective. I thought this was supposed to be a productive discussion? It seems like you are making it personal. I don’t really care what you carry, or what Is your level of training. You can carry an 1851 Navy for all I care. I will try to have the necessary kit and training both mentally and physically to win a gunfight,
Taking it personal? Not at all, since we're not related, married, or having sex, and I don't work for you why would I?
A lesson I learned in Vietnam is that despite how well a person might try to train and equip themselves for a gun fight there's no guarantee that they'll win but good luck.
I had historically carried a 'j" frame when out and about in public. I live in what I think to be a very safe area from human attack or threat. That said in the past few years I have carried a Colt LW Commander .45ACP. It seems to me that assaults and robberies are not solely undertaken by persons one-on-one, two-on-one or even three-on-one. Now it seems a gang of assaulters goes after one victim, and for armed protection you would truly need some friends armed with Uzis.
I would carry something with more capacity if it was legal in my state. As it is, I'm competent with my 1911 and feel confidant I can use it legally and appropriately if necessary.
I would carry something with more capacity if it was legal in my state. As it is, I'm competent with my 1911 and feel confidant I can use it legally and appropriately if necessary.
duncan4521
Member
Personal yes, and no we don’t have to be related. It’s personal when you direct your comments directly to me, rather than to the broader discussion. You can leave your safety to luck if you so desire. I am well aware with 16 years in Narcotics and Organized Crime that there are no guarantees when violence calls. However, Chance favors the trained. You be lucky, I’ll prepare.
Doriangray6
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2025
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 351
Yawn.............Personal yes, and no we don’t have to be related. It’s personal when you direct your comments directly to me, rather than to the broader discussion. You can leave your safety to luck if you so desire. I am well aware with 16 years in Narcotics and Organized Crime that there are no guarantees when violence calls. However, Chance favors the trained. You be lucky, I’ll prepare.
It was Mark Moritz, a Cooper protégé, IIRC.
duncan4521
Member
Similar threads
