Rastoff
US Veteran
I've never seen one of those RIA 10mm guns before. What's going on here?
M&P 2.0 in 10mm?
- Thread starter DonD
- Start date
In all honesty, at ranges I would use an M&P the 255 gr 45 loads from Buffalo Bore or Underwood should be more than enough. At 25-30 yards whatever you shoot at will not notice the difference between a 10mm or 45. The only gun I would shoot out to 50 yards with is my Les Baer 45. I shout it better than my 629. 10mm seems like too little jump from a 45 to retool everything. 10mm just seems like not enough umpth to justify the increased cost to shoot. Go big with a 44 mag or better to see a difference. Even the 44 pales in comparison to moderate rifle calibers.
As someone mentioned, i treat handgun hunting distances like bow hunting distance so 10mm really has no magic allure to me.
As someone mentioned, i treat handgun hunting distances like bow hunting distance so 10mm really has no magic allure to me.
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RIA fit n finish. I noticed it when I got it back from Cerakote but haven't done anything to address it. Doesn't bother me, to be honest.
Rastoff
US Veteran
No, this is not a fit/finish issue. There is an intentional cut in the frame that I've never seen in a 1911 before. They even have a special grip panel to fill it. Why is it there?
This is what a normal frame looks like:
Christopher67 No other barrel is needed to shoot 45 super , brass is heavier in the base area and the chamber is the same length while still being consider a low pressure load so the recoil impulse feels slower . You would want a heavier recoil spring but that's easy and something you might do even with underwood or BB 45+p !
M28since16 I'm not a brand fan boy !! I have 9 brands of handguns so s&w is just a couple of many ? And for revolvers I'm a Dan Wesson revolver guy since '76 . HA
M28since16 I'm not a brand fan boy !! I have 9 brands of handguns so s&w is just a couple of many ? And for revolvers I'm a Dan Wesson revolver guy since '76 . HA
Echo40
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I honestly don't know what Smith & Wesson is waiting for on this one. The market is there and they could easily rechamber the M&P40/45 in 10mm Auto with minimal modifications. (I imagine that aside from a new barrel, a heavier recoil spring would be all that's necessary to make the M&P40 capable of handling 10mm Auto.)
If Smith & Wesson were to offer an M&P10, then I would immediately prioritize it as my next major firearms purchase.
If Smith & Wesson were to offer an M&P10, then I would immediately prioritize it as my next major firearms purchase.
Rastoff
US Veteran
By this comment, it seems that you assume I think this is some flaw. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just want to know what it's for.
Interweb to the rescue.
I found the purpose. Apparently, since it's a double stack mag, they needed this cut to allow installation of the trigger.
Guess you would avoid 9mm+P+ then as the ammo was used by LE for 40 years with the official okey dokey for gun companies as theres not saami rated +P+ ether . So a cartridge like 45 super scares you even with a larger base to the brass and lower pressure than 10mm . Hey takes all types !!
Gee, I guess I should ignore clear statements in the owner's manual that +P+ ammo should never be used. And please give me an actual reference from a reputable source saying use +P+, something other than "okey dokey". Okey dokey doesn't count with me.
Can the gun survive +P+ ammo? Highly likely. Is the service life of the gun likely to be compromised? Likely.
I've read articles from highly respected gunsmiths and shooters like John Linebaugh that talk about highly hotrodded reloads, they don't recommend it.
I also know a guy who was high up in Ruger's Prescott, AZ plant. He saw lots of damaged guns from hot rodded ammo.
And no I'm not "scared", I've been shooting heavy 500 Mag ammo since it was first produced in 2003. Don
DonD But LE did use 9mm+P+ , sorry you seem to think they did not . federal and winchester still makes it !!
OH , the 45 super is not a hot rodded 45acp or 45 acp brass even , its parent brass is a much heavier 45 winchester magnum brass just like your noted John Linebaugh did with his name brand cartridges . The hotter 40sw loads like from underwood & BB that match some factory 10mm was developed by Hodgons . Soooo much for your hot rodded ammo .
Wonder if some of those ruger revolvers were John Linebaugh conversions ? or just bad reloads as plent ole 44 mags and 357revolver have gone boom with ruger names on them but so little info was offered as to the reasons why !
Hey you want a 10mm Then buy one theres plenty to pick from , maybe even a 6" gluck , ha. Other wise this is a useless debate .
.
OH , the 45 super is not a hot rodded 45acp or 45 acp brass even , its parent brass is a much heavier 45 winchester magnum brass just like your noted John Linebaugh did with his name brand cartridges . The hotter 40sw loads like from underwood & BB that match some factory 10mm was developed by Hodgons . Soooo much for your hot rodded ammo .
Wonder if some of those ruger revolvers were John Linebaugh conversions ? or just bad reloads as plent ole 44 mags and 357revolver have gone boom with ruger names on them but so little info was offered as to the reasons why !
Hey you want a 10mm Then buy one theres plenty to pick from , maybe even a 6" gluck , ha. Other wise this is a useless debate .
.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Re: cut in the frame. I've see similar cuts in frames in the past. In those cuts, it worked as a stress-relief point, and prevented frame cracks at particular points. (If there was not cut, the frame often cracked at that point, but the crack was more extensive.)
Don't know if that was the case in the gun being discussed here.
Don't know if that was the case in the gun being discussed here.
I never said that no LE outfits used +P+. Was it a "wink, wink" we'll look the other way or was it based on testing and a formal acceptance of +P+?
In any event, semis have no where near the strength reserve of heavy revolvers and things like S&Ws X-Frames that are brute strong.
I prefer to limit my ammo to what S&W and Ruger to name two, who say don't use +P+.
Do you think an additional 75fps makes a good slug some death ray? No it doesn't and it will shorten the lifespan of the gun. Don
touchoneoff
Member
Well, seeing as though the 10mm seems to be having a bit of a resurgence lately, I bet it won't be too much longer before S&W comes on board with one.
We can only hope.
That's what Glock did with the model 40 6" 10mm with MOS cut slide.
DonD that was also back in the days of some pistolbeing made as 9mm and reworked to be 40sw . Then when the 357sig came along design standards were raised for most handguns designs to a higher level and 9mm+P+ was not a but deal . But it was still a problem for s&w M&P line as they did dump the 357sig M&P pretty quickly . Odd how the m&p 1.0 line was so under sprung and no one noticed , I do wonder if the 357sig version might have stayed around if the 20lb or 22lb recoil spring was used in the 357sig years ago ? Sorta makes the 9mm +P+ nothing special . Well you git the point .
Don using your words about to 10mm over hotter 40sw loads - Do you think an additional 75fps " well maybe 100fps " makes a good slug some death ray? No it doesn't and it will shorten the lifespan of the gun.
Funny darn debate .
Heck I'd be pleased if someone offered the original 22ctm or FN's 5.7x28 in to an lighter weight and affordable double stack platform .
Don using your words about to 10mm over hotter 40sw loads - Do you think an additional 75fps " well maybe 100fps " makes a good slug some death ray? No it doesn't and it will shorten the lifespan of the gun.
Funny darn debate .
Heck I'd be pleased if someone offered the original 22ctm or FN's 5.7x28 in to an lighter weight and affordable double stack platform .
M&P 2.0 in 10mm?
I was thinking about this today on my hike, and you're right - I assumed you were talking about a flaw, which is why I responded with "RIA fit-n-finish. I thought you were talking about the grip and frame not lining up very well (see picture).
Anyway, thanks for the info about the purpose of the notch. This is my first and only 1911 so I don't know the model extremely well.
I was thinking about this today on my hike, and you're right - I assumed you were talking about a flaw, which is why I responded with "RIA fit-n-finish. I thought you were talking about the grip and frame not lining up very well (see picture).
Anyway, thanks for the info about the purpose of the notch. This is my first and only 1911 so I don't know the model extremely well.
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Doug M.
Member
A properly loaded 10MM should be significantly different from the .45ACP. When the FBI made the unfortunate decision to adopt the 10mm (which as loaded was little different from a 185 grain .45ACP) the original loads were too stout for many agents (and probably most shooters) to use for personal defense. The downloaded 10mm was ballistically adequate, but the platform was a dog (I had one issued to me at the SO), and too heavy for a plainclothes pistol. As downloaded, the 10mm was a good incentive to create the .40 S&W. I know of a couple places that had MP5-10s, and as I recall, they were set up for the hotter ammo, which was a pain in the backside. They are pretty rare and worth a ton today.
If one is using a 10mm load intended not for duty/personal defense, but for hunting and woods carry protection, the 10mm is very similar to the.41 Magnum. Those loads are not common at all. While from what I have seen (only shot one M&P, briefly), our cadets who have used the M&P are universally very happy with it in terms of ergonomics and the feel of shooting it. That said, I would buy the G20, as I have gear from my old G21 duty gun that will work just fine, and a couple friends have them set up with barrels for 9mm/.357Sig/.40 and are very happy. I seem to not be as ergonomically sensitive as others, and did well with the G21. In addition, the G20 is a well proven platform. (The MOS is intriguing, and my aging eyes prefer red dots, but the holster change might be annoying.)
To a shooting enthusiast, the 10mm market seems vibrant, but to a corporate entity the size of S&W, I really doubt the juice is worth the squeeze as they have to make sure it is capable of dealing with the hot hunting loads. I very much doubt you will see a factory 10mm M%P.
If one is using a 10mm load intended not for duty/personal defense, but for hunting and woods carry protection, the 10mm is very similar to the.41 Magnum. Those loads are not common at all. While from what I have seen (only shot one M&P, briefly), our cadets who have used the M&P are universally very happy with it in terms of ergonomics and the feel of shooting it. That said, I would buy the G20, as I have gear from my old G21 duty gun that will work just fine, and a couple friends have them set up with barrels for 9mm/.357Sig/.40 and are very happy. I seem to not be as ergonomically sensitive as others, and did well with the G21. In addition, the G20 is a well proven platform. (The MOS is intriguing, and my aging eyes prefer red dots, but the holster change might be annoying.)
To a shooting enthusiast, the 10mm market seems vibrant, but to a corporate entity the size of S&W, I really doubt the juice is worth the squeeze as they have to make sure it is capable of dealing with the hot hunting loads. I very much doubt you will see a factory 10mm M%P.
Rastoff
US Veteran
This is exactly what I thought about S&W making a Shield in .45ACP and yet it's now one of the most popular models.
If Glock can make a 10mm, the M&P can be made in 10mm.
Also, I'm not buying the whole, "10mm is too hot for normal shooters" story. I've owned a 10mm and didn't find it all that bad to shoot. I think this comes more from people not having the correct grip/training more than the load being too much.
Also, if the full size 1911 or M&P .45 aren't too heavy to carry, they're not with the right belt, neither will this be.
Rastoff It does depends on the 10mm ammo used and the handgun its fired in as to how controllable it iswhile shooting quickly while you can fire it with A only zone hits .
Check out Luck Gunners site and note many of todays 10mm loads are rather mild at least untill your shooting BB , Underwood or some home rolled loads and a few others .
Some of use build homes for a living so handgun weight and even size can matter regardless of the belt used with in some limit's and why I draw the line today at 63 years of age to a lw commander in 45acp or m&p 4.25 40sw and I am only 5-9 . When still working a Kahr TP 40 was my handgun of choice with a 1320fps load . When hunting with my DW revolver was in a cross chest rig never on my hip .
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10mm-auto-self-defense-ammo-ballistic-gel-tests/
Check out Luck Gunners site and note many of todays 10mm loads are rather mild at least untill your shooting BB , Underwood or some home rolled loads and a few others .
Some of use build homes for a living so handgun weight and even size can matter regardless of the belt used with in some limit's and why I draw the line today at 63 years of age to a lw commander in 45acp or m&p 4.25 40sw and I am only 5-9 . When still working a Kahr TP 40 was my handgun of choice with a 1320fps load . When hunting with my DW revolver was in a cross chest rig never on my hip .
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10mm-auto-self-defense-ammo-ballistic-gel-tests/
I have a G20. I am trying to consolidate all my pistols to M&P. I prefer the M&P and would really love to have one for critter protection when in the back country. I carry concealed and am not interested in a big, heavy revolver.
