There must be something there that peels lead from the first round and it builds from that.Definitely talk to S&W.
M&P 22 Barrel Problems?
- Thread starter Gorilla25
- Start date
George9
Member
Shoot some copper jacketed ammo maybe 500 or 1000 rounds of it.. What I do is i wet a patch and swab the bore or in your case I would have pored some down the barrel then let it work over night I use Hoppy's bore solvent .. I also shot the worst ammo IMO, Remington lightning blot lead ammo.. Never had a issue like yours this stuff was dirty stuff low powered too. I think your issue may be using lead having a relatively new gun .. It needs break in .. I would do that with copper ammo cci mini mags is what I used.. also I think you may have been playing master blaster with your lead ammo and your barrel just got to hot and fouled melting lead inside.. Slow down give it a chance to break in.. If I'm going to be shooting really bad ammo I run a brush down the barrel after about 200 rounds or so.. The gun will puff out smoke more as the buildup starts in about 200 rounds I have found.. My thoughts on your issue.. But barrel looks good now!! Great job.. You may have had a low powered round on your last shot and got a bullet stuck or fragments of it stuck. good your didn't put one more shot down that barrel.. George
agksimon
Member
Sweet's Bore Cleaner will disolve lead and works very well, but you can't leave it in too long, or it will pit the bore. Follow instructions carefully.
Glad you've got the lead out. I think George is on to something - barrel break in. Put the Blazers away for now and send some plated bullets through it. A lot of them. Then try them again and keep a close eye on the bore.
I still have not heard from S&W but its fine, I know they're a busy company.
From round one I used the Blazer ammo. Like I said, the first hour or so was at a target range so I had nice slow and concentrated shots. the range I was at wont let us do double taps. Then I went to the silhouette range for another hour or so after. that is where I did rapid firing because we are allowed to
I did notice towards the end of the day after a shot some smoke would puff out of the barrel. The next 500-1k rounds will be some jacketed/plated stuff. I think i should follow that for my M&P15-22 as well. I only have 250 rounds through it but no problems because at least 150 rounds are with jacketed/plated ammo.
George: Thanks a lot! Barrel break in is what I did not do or think about.
agksimon: yes, i made sure to only leave it in for a little while. smells like brasso, a very familiar smell..haha
M&P Freak: Exactly what I will do. Thank you
From round one I used the Blazer ammo. Like I said, the first hour or so was at a target range so I had nice slow and concentrated shots. the range I was at wont let us do double taps. Then I went to the silhouette range for another hour or so after. that is where I did rapid firing because we are allowed to
I did notice towards the end of the day after a shot some smoke would puff out of the barrel. The next 500-1k rounds will be some jacketed/plated stuff. I think i should follow that for my M&P15-22 as well. I only have 250 rounds through it but no problems because at least 150 rounds are with jacketed/plated ammo.George: Thanks a lot! Barrel break in is what I did not do or think about.
agksimon: yes, i made sure to only leave it in for a little while. smells like brasso, a very familiar smell..haha
M&P Freak: Exactly what I will do. Thank you
I had a similar problem my first day out with my M&P 22 as well. I though I wrecked it. I was rapid firing lead round nose. That is the only situation I have had buildup that bad. I have been using plated rounds since then with no issue. Remington, Win, Fed, & CCI.
Maddmax
US Veteran
There email is slow going at best,could be a couple weeks waiting. Calling is always better.
Good to see you fixed and worked through your problem. I stay away from exposed lead as much as I can and "try" to shoot copper coated. I also clean after every range trip. IF,I'm shooting exposed lead,I will do a "quick" barrel clean at the range. The smoke is a dead give away and time to clean the barrel quick. If shooting a lot of 22 at the range,I might also do a quick barrel clean. 22's are notoriously dirty no matter what brand. Some brands are just dirtier than others.
***UPDATE***
S&W replied today...
Just as you guys said. Its normal build up for shooting that much non-jacketed rounds. Though I agree that it is A LOT of build up for the amount of rounds shot, I did not break in my barrel first.
Lessons:
1. I will be shooting jacketed ammo as much as possible (esp the next 500-1k rds for barrel break in)
2. If I must use non-jacketed ammo, i'll be sure to fire jacketed rounds as well to get some of the build up out.
3. I'll be bringing my cleaning kit to the range to clean out the barrel every 200 rounds or when I begin to see smoke come out of the barrel.
thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. Be safe and happy shooting!
S&W replied today...
Just as you guys said. Its normal build up for shooting that much non-jacketed rounds. Though I agree that it is A LOT of build up for the amount of rounds shot, I did not break in my barrel first.
Lessons:
1. I will be shooting jacketed ammo as much as possible (esp the next 500-1k rds for barrel break in)
2. If I must use non-jacketed ammo, i'll be sure to fire jacketed rounds as well to get some of the build up out.
3. I'll be bringing my cleaning kit to the range to clean out the barrel every 200 rounds or when I begin to see smoke come out of the barrel.
thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. Be safe and happy shooting!
Fishinfool
Member
S&W replied today...
Quote:
Dear Customer,
That is normal lead build up after shooting non copper coated ammunition. We would recommend using a good cleaning solvent and brass brush to clean the lead out.
If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.
Sincerely,
Rob
END QUOTE....
Lots of good advice from fellow forum members. But I will say, have shot a lot of un-plated lead .22's thru a lot of rifles over the years, and the problem you had is not "Normal" lead build up.
Larry
Quote:
Dear Customer,
That is normal lead build up after shooting non copper coated ammunition. We would recommend using a good cleaning solvent and brass brush to clean the lead out.
If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.
Sincerely,
Rob
END QUOTE....
Lots of good advice from fellow forum members. But I will say, have shot a lot of un-plated lead .22's thru a lot of rifles over the years, and the problem you had is not "Normal" lead build up.
Larry
smokey0118
Member
Im sorry, but that is not typical lead build up. .22 projectiles should have some form of lube on them. In pistol-length barrels, you shouldn't have gone through the lube. In rifles, you'll often lead the last little bit of the bore with cheap ammo as the crappy lube job runs out. Good ammo, like wolf match or extra match, just doesn't lead since they've got pretty great lube on the bullet.
I'd be interested in completely de-leading it(being careful not to etch your barrel with chemical lead remover), and passing a bore scope up there to look for a chatter mark in the rifling, or even a crack. I'm also curious if the OP had a squib in the string of shots and fired behind the bore obstruction.
if you can find some, try some good eley or wolf match to see if it still leads up like that in the same spot. I've fired thousands through my sp22m3 in between cleanings and never experienced build-up like that.
I'd be interested in completely de-leading it(being careful not to etch your barrel with chemical lead remover), and passing a bore scope up there to look for a chatter mark in the rifling, or even a crack. I'm also curious if the OP had a squib in the string of shots and fired behind the bore obstruction.
if you can find some, try some good eley or wolf match to see if it still leads up like that in the same spot. I've fired thousands through my sp22m3 in between cleanings and never experienced build-up like that.
Thanks for the input. I have not let the bore cleaner sit in the barrel for too long when I de-leaded the barrel. the lead build up was not in a full chunk like that. it was all in between the rifling and when i dislodged it, it came out in a chunk. I dont have a barrel scope at the moment so I will see if a friend has one i can borrow.
That is a damn lie... I have never had a lead build up like that from any 22 ever regardless of coating...There is something wrong with their manufacturing process... I would suggest calling them in the morning as the help line people are much better than the e-mail support people.
Will do. I'll take notes and post what they say. Although i've cleared and cleaned the barrel, i'd like to know if there was something actually wrong with the barrel or the simple "did not break it in" thing. Im really interested in finding out because this is the first time I've experienced anything like this. Did not happen in my M&P15-22 and it hasn't happened in my dad's Jennings .22 pistol, his Ruger MKII, or his AR-7. My M&P15-22 has not shot too much rounds yet but my dad's .22 firearms has shot MANY rounds. Remington Thunderbolt as its main ammo fired. (My dad and his friends bulk ordered CASES of those back when I was growing up and he still has tons of them left.).
cjt50
Member
Reviving an old thread;
I have had my MP22 for about a year and have shot about 5000 rounds of only Federal bulk pack sold by walmart. Never had any leading problem, just a couple swipes with a bore snake was all that was necessary to clean it.
Well, due to the current 22lr ammo madness, I was only able to secure 1500 rounds of Remington thunderbolt. (non-plated bullet) Went shooting both my MP22 and a colt 1911-22 (both made by Umarex) What a nighmare; both barrels were leaded up just like the OP's The MP22 was the worst and I removed, after much effort, a chunk of lead just like the OP's.
Maybe the Umarex barrels don't like unplated bullets. Weird thing, since I won't shoot that stuff thru my 2 pistols any more, I blasted it thru a Sig522. About 500 rounds later, no lead in the barrels.
I was thinking, maybe since the barrel is so thin, (it only covered by a shroud) that it builds up heat quickly and start making the unplated bullets soft, leaving the lead behind. (just a thought)
BTW; has anyone bought a MP22 barrel from S&W? Just incase I damaged it during the de-leading process.
I have had my MP22 for about a year and have shot about 5000 rounds of only Federal bulk pack sold by walmart. Never had any leading problem, just a couple swipes with a bore snake was all that was necessary to clean it.
Well, due to the current 22lr ammo madness, I was only able to secure 1500 rounds of Remington thunderbolt. (non-plated bullet) Went shooting both my MP22 and a colt 1911-22 (both made by Umarex) What a nighmare; both barrels were leaded up just like the OP's The MP22 was the worst and I removed, after much effort, a chunk of lead just like the OP's.
Maybe the Umarex barrels don't like unplated bullets. Weird thing, since I won't shoot that stuff thru my 2 pistols any more, I blasted it thru a Sig522. About 500 rounds later, no lead in the barrels.
I was thinking, maybe since the barrel is so thin, (it only covered by a shroud) that it builds up heat quickly and start making the unplated bullets soft, leaving the lead behind. (just a thought)
BTW; has anyone bought a MP22 barrel from S&W? Just incase I damaged it during the de-leading process.
JaPes
Member
This is my experience and my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
I own several firearms chambered in .22lr, handguns and long guns. I've fired premium ammo to inexpensive bulk ammo, plated and not plated. I've shot some of my father's stash from 1970, exposed lead projectiles.
First, the copper plating on the .22lr projectile is very thin. While it does help mitigate the possibility of leading, it can still occur. Second, I've fired countless lead round nose projectiles. Not all exposed lead .22lr projectiles have leading issues in the barrel. Some do, some don't. The only way you'll find out is when you shoot a specific manufacturer's & type of ammo.
For example, Remington Thunderbolt .22lr LRN's. Those leaded up the barrel on my Ruger 22/45RP within 25 rounds. 1/2 way through the third mag, projectiles were key-holing the target. I took a look down the barrel, and there was an excessive amount of leading. It was similar to the OP's pictures.
My best guess is that a combination of ammo construction factors contributed to leading issues from Remington Thunderbolt. First, Remington probably used a low brinell hardness lead to cast their projectiles. Second, Remington probably used a slightly hot propellant charge. Softer lead + slightly hotter powder load = your barrel becomes a smooth bore musket.
I'm guessing that Blazer must do the same thing.
OP, you did ok removing the lead from the barrel. Next time, try to find a wood dowel of appropriate diameter to tap out extreme lead fouling. The wood won't damage the interior of the barrel. Next, get a Hoppes tornado brush. It's not a traditional bristle brush. It's a looped wire that will not damage the bore. It grabs the bulk of the lead out of the lands & grooves. Follow up with a traditional bronze phosphor brush.
I own several firearms chambered in .22lr, handguns and long guns. I've fired premium ammo to inexpensive bulk ammo, plated and not plated. I've shot some of my father's stash from 1970, exposed lead projectiles.
First, the copper plating on the .22lr projectile is very thin. While it does help mitigate the possibility of leading, it can still occur. Second, I've fired countless lead round nose projectiles. Not all exposed lead .22lr projectiles have leading issues in the barrel. Some do, some don't. The only way you'll find out is when you shoot a specific manufacturer's & type of ammo.
For example, Remington Thunderbolt .22lr LRN's. Those leaded up the barrel on my Ruger 22/45RP within 25 rounds. 1/2 way through the third mag, projectiles were key-holing the target. I took a look down the barrel, and there was an excessive amount of leading. It was similar to the OP's pictures.
My best guess is that a combination of ammo construction factors contributed to leading issues from Remington Thunderbolt. First, Remington probably used a low brinell hardness lead to cast their projectiles. Second, Remington probably used a slightly hot propellant charge. Softer lead + slightly hotter powder load = your barrel becomes a smooth bore musket.
I'm guessing that Blazer must do the same thing.
OP, you did ok removing the lead from the barrel. Next time, try to find a wood dowel of appropriate diameter to tap out extreme lead fouling. The wood won't damage the interior of the barrel. Next, get a Hoppes tornado brush. It's not a traditional bristle brush. It's a looped wire that will not damage the bore. It grabs the bulk of the lead out of the lands & grooves. Follow up with a traditional bronze phosphor brush.
Guys & gals... new reader and recent m&p22 owner. Just ran into the exact same thing after shooting a brick of thunderbolt ammo. Was literally about to send the pistol to S&W until I read this post.. I honestly first thought my bore snake was too big or something. Even after regular cleanings after about 15 rounds I was missing from 5 yds by 3ft or more and making keyhole sized holes. Spent about 4 hours soaking in hoppes bore cleaner and getting various bore brushes(.17 and .22) wedged in the barrel basically to remove HUGE chunks of lead in what seemed like a perfect circle right were the thread starts from breech end. Makes me think there may be some slight imperfections in the barrel manufacturing. I will say I haven't found a round yet that was a F2F or F2E and I have tried most everything. Guess you just have to stick to jacketed stuff. Thanks for all the insight..
George9
Member
My best suggestion would be slow down a bit if you have multiple mags you may tent to shoot them through the gun faster then if you only had one or two mags.. Some that shoot there .22 like playing master blaster have this issue.. If I'm forced to run dirty none copper washed ammo I'll put a brush through with bore cleaner on it every 200 rounds or so and I also clean the chamber.. Hint when it's getting dirty it will start puffing smoke more and then rings of smoke, time to clean.. Remingtion Lighting bolt ammo with build up fast in the barrel.. I think it's just a very thin barrel the sleeve helps but it's still not like having a thick barrel.
Here is a after thought please, others step in here because this is only a thought.. I also work on electronics and when installing components that get very hot to heat sinks I use a heat transfer compound that I get from Radio Shack "Heat sink compound" . I can't help but wonder if you removed you barrel sleeve and used this compound between the barrel and sleeve it wouldn't help immensely.. Your barrel is running red hot at times and this is causing the fast build up this would help transfer the heat to the sleeve fast.. Again just a thought.. George
Here is a after thought please, others step in here because this is only a thought.. I also work on electronics and when installing components that get very hot to heat sinks I use a heat transfer compound that I get from Radio Shack "Heat sink compound" . I can't help but wonder if you removed you barrel sleeve and used this compound between the barrel and sleeve it wouldn't help immensely.. Your barrel is running red hot at times and this is causing the fast build up this would help transfer the heat to the sleeve fast.. Again just a thought.. George
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I shoot slow most of the time but do rapid fire at least once per outing. I always load 3 copper washed rounds in the mag first so they come out last. Not sure that helps but it's what I do and also regular cleaning at home and boresnake at the range.
George9
Member
Another thought would be to use a new super lube like Seal #1 or Frog Lube after three treatments it will season the metal and may make it foul less.. May be worth a try. George
