M&P 38 (22 conversion) date of mfr?

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daveinseoul3160

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Good evening,

I recently acquired a very nice M&P (SN 940xxx...no V prefix) that received the post WW2 conversion to .22 in the UK. Revolver has a replacement 6.25" barrel, sleeved cylinder, adjustable rear sight, and modified hammer mounted firing pin. British proofs all over, lanyard ring intact. Replacement faux stag grips. I'll post pics shortly, and plan to letter the revolver also.

Can the experts assist with an approximate date of manufacture or any additional info? I've researched similar threads on here (great info), and am enjoying owning this one! Thanks,

Dave
 
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Lettering most Victories (there are some exceptions) will tell you almost nothing of interest beyond providing an exact shipping date. Getting a letter would be a waste of money.
 
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Interesting revolver
the cylinder's extractor conversion and the recoil shield/firing pin bushing modification are what interests me

Sleeveing a cylinder to 22 is actually quite simple, the hard part is modifying the extractor for the smaller cases. They also had to modify the firing pin and the firing pin bushing to hit the rim of a 22 instead of the center of a primer.
 
I misread the intent of your question about date and thought you were asking about the conversion. Of course the factory letter wouldn't have anything in it about that! Therefore, I agree that such a letter would probably be a waste of the $100 it would cost.

As for the question I thought you were asking; the conversion was probably done in the early to mid Fifties when WW II surplus was quite abundant and it was financially smart to upgrade these very common revolvers to make them more attractive. As somebody said previously, this is a very nice example of the breed!

Now for my questions. Is there any marking on it indicating who did the conversion? This would affect interest and value. Also how about more closeup pictures of the sights, any markings, and the actual conversion of cylinder and hammer? There are a few of us interested in these "improved" versions of the pre-Victory and Victory Models done after the War when shooters of the "Greatest Generation" were "hungry" for any affordable guns they could get.

Regards.
Froggie
 
Green Frog said:
I misread the intent of your question about date and thought you were asking about the conversion. Of course the factory letter wouldn't have anything in it about that! Therefore, I agree that such a letter would probably be a waste of the $100 it would cost.

As for the question I thought you were asking; the conversion was probably done in the early to mid Fifties when WW II surplus was quite abundant and it was financially smart to upgrade these very common revolvers to make them more attractive. As somebody said previously, this is a very nice example of the breed!

Now for my questions. Is there any marking on it indicating who did the conversion? This would affect interest and value. Also how about more closeup pictures of the sights, any markings, and the actual conversion of cylinder and hammer? There are a few of us interested in these "improved" versions of the pre-Victory and Victory Models done after the War when shooters of the "Greatest Generation" were "hungry" for any affordable guns they could get.

Regards.
Froggie
Click to expand...

Froggie, thanks for your detailed response. I'll head down later today and take some additional detailed photos (I already submitted some of the cylinder, but will upload some additional photos of your areas of interest). The rear sight is very well made. I believe that someone has attempted to replace the original sight blade with a S&W target blade and screw. It works....sort of, but is different that the other examples I've seen on the forum. I'd love to figure that one out and bring it back to normal.

The revolver has no markings to designate who did the conversion, but I've heard Parker Hale (usually marked) and Cogswell Harrision (unmarked) did a lot of conversions, so I'm leaning away from PH.
 
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The firearms industry was absolutely great back in the pre-War and immediate post-War years with highly skilled gunsmiths available to do precise hand work. The industry, like several others requiring devotion to training and skills development, has faded over the last 50-70 years, but exquisite relics like yours remain.
I’m not an expert on markings of these, but agree that a Parker Hale barrel would be likely to be marked, but I haven’t seen enough confirmed C&H examples to comment on them. These two were not the only companies doing these conversions, since there were still numerous small gunmakers in London and Birmingham at that time as well as many small gunsmith shops who also would have been capable of this kind of work. The proof marks on the barrel might tell us something.
Froggie
 
This is a picture of an old advertisement for a similar BSR .22 conversion from a 1961 American Rifleman. SN 940xxx would likely have originally shipped in March or April of 1942. Back in 1961, guns could be bought by mail order by almost anyone. BTW, Klein's (in Chicago) was where Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly bought the 6.5 Carcano rifle used in the JFK assassination.

NlzDhx0.jpg
 
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daveinseoul3160 said:
Froggie, thanks for your detailed response. I'll head down later today and take some additional detailed photos (I already submitted some of the cylinder, but will upload some additional photos of your areas of interest). The rear sight is very well made. I believe that someone has attempted to replace the original sight blade with a S&W target blade and screw. It works....sort of, but is different that the other examples I've seen on the forum. I'd love to figure that one out and bring it back to normal.

The revolver has no markings to designate who did the conversion, but I've heard Parker Hale (usually marked) and Cogswell Harrision (unmarked) did a lot of conversions, so I'm leaning away from PH.
Click to expand...

Here's a few more detailed photos.
 

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Belgian Proofs on the bbl
Crown/R.....Rifled bore
*/R ... Proof Inspector Mark
Lion(Griffon?)/P.V..... Nitro Proof
.22C....22caliber
(Perhaps there are English Proofs on the other side)

English/Birmingham Proof Hs marks on the cylinder ..looks like Crown/BNP


Canadian marked Victory
 
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2152hq said:
Belgian Proofs on the bbl
Crown/R.....Rifled bore
*/R ... Proof Inspector Mark
Lion(Griffon?)/P.V..... Nitro Proof
.22C....22caliber
(Perhaps there are English Proofs on the other side)

English/Birmingham Proof Hs marks on the cylinder ..looks like Crown/BNP


Canadian marked Victory
Click to expand...

Great info! Are the Canadian proofs on the butt (C w/broad arrow....hard to see)?

Assuming the barrel markings point to a Belgian Mfr barrel?

As my wife is a Brit, and I lived for 3 years in Belgium (military), this revolver is speaking to me! Pic of left side barrel markings attached....
 

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