M&P 9mm accuracy issue for me

[Wessels69p]

Hey guys,

I'm not trying to start drama here but actually think I have an issue. I bought my M&P 4.25" 9mm recently and have ran about 300 or more rounds through it. I noticed that my accuracy was way different from an old beretta I have but blamed it on me and my newness with the weapon. Last, night I went shooting again with some friends and still had the issue. I even picked a sig p2022 9mm and stamped the red and inner black at 7 yards with a full clip. I have never shot a sig before. I could not come close to this with my m&p. I find I have to aim at nearly the top of the outermost ring to get near the center.

Is it possible the sights are off that bad from the factory? They are fixed factory sights.

Anyway, just looking for advice here. I love the gun but can't seem to perform with it like anything else I have shot. What are my options?

Thanks, wade

 

[RobzGuns]

The sights being off would only account for Left-Right accuracy, not Up-Down accuracy. I'm not saying that it definitely isn't the pistol, but as seen with many who have this problem, it's possible that you are 'dipping' the barrel during trigger press... Possibly in anticipation to recoil.

Next time out, have someone slip a dummy round/Snap-Cap somewhere in the middle of your mag and have them watch your hands while you shoot. If the gun dips noticeably when you hit the 'dud'... It's you.

At 7 Yds, to be that far off, there would need to be a really bad barrel defect.

 

[user151]

I'm not familiar with the M&P but responding to your general statement -- if the front site were too high, or the rear site too low, it would put the POA below the bullseye -- so you would have to aim high to hit the bullseye.

 

[fdw]

Personally, I have found the more I shoot a gun, the better it gets...

 

[Johnmuratore]

Wade,
Try shooting from a rest, and then have a friend do the same.
Different grip, different hand position on an M&P.

 

[Wessels69p]

I will try shooting with a rest. It's just odd to me that I can be so far off at 7yards versus a beretta that I'm used to and a sig I literally picked up. Thanks fellas.

 

[Smoke]

Is it possible the sights are off that bad from the factory? They are fixed factory sights.

Mine were way off to the left from the factory

 

[Johnmuratore]

Smoke,
Left/right I could understand. I don't think they make any effort to sight the gun at the factory. Elevation is harder to figure.

Wade,
Make sure you're lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear channel. As I understand it, the dots are for rapid target acquisition only.
Isn't that right guys?

 

[OKFC05]

I will try shooting with a rest. It's just odd to me that I can be so far off at 7yards versus a beretta that I'm used to and a sig I literally picked up. Thanks fellas.

If this is your first plastic fantastic and you are used to shooting metal single-action pistols, it is VERY common to shoot low. An excellent IDPA/ESP shooter tried my M&P 9mm Pro and was very embarrassed at how poorly he shot. He was experienced enough to know he was breaking down on the shot during the long trigger pull. Since we had just shot a match, he knew it was not the gun.

 

[PERAZZI]

and, it just might not be you...

 

[TYSTYX]

What sight picture are you using? My son and I both use #3 on my M&P .40 and it is dead on at 25 feet. Try aligning your dots and covering the center of the target with the front dot.

 

[Wessels69p]

I'm using the first one but have to aim the opposite (the top instead of the bottom). 2 or 3 and I would hit the bottom of the paper.

 

[uechikid]

Is this a newly manufactured M&P? I remember reading that the first generation of the M&P 9s had accuracy issues. The fix was a new generation barrel.

 

[Prasko]

Have someone else shoot it. See how it is.

 

[waldengr]

installed a dmps/dpms (whichever) multi-spring recoil unit and my shooting improve noticably (mp9c). the recoil system package was marked CZ75, but sold as workable for the 9c. comes with two outer springs. the heavier one was best for me. 9c operates just fine with the new system (muzzle flip is way less). at 25ft, using the front dot over center of the target. the left/right drift is my fault.

cheers, ya'll

 

[attrapereves]

Have the new 2014 M&P9 pistols had their accuracy problems fixed?

 

[Bkreutz]

Have the new 2014 M&P9 pistols had their accuracy problems fixed?

What accuracy problems? Seems to be a leading question.

That's kind of like asking someone if they've stopped beating their wife

 

[lhump1961]

Is this a newly manufactured M&P? I remember reading that the first generation of the M&P 9s had accuracy issues. The fix was a new generation barrel.

Do you really believe everything you read? I have an M&P from early on and it's just fine...I'll believe what I see.

I'll go with this opinion on "accuracy".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVzSAm5VhfE

 

[k20350]

I have the same issue. My M&P shoots about 4-5 inches low. Nice tight low groups. Shoots that way for everyone who shoots it. Mine actually has a pretty good factory trigger. I love the Pistol but have to use a high 12 'O clock hold to hit bullseye. I was wondering if other height factory sights were available.

 

[attrapereves]

What accuracy problems? Seems to be a leading question.

That's kind of like asking someone if they've stopped beating their wife

I really like my M&Ps and have not had any accuracy issues with any of mine. However, many people report poor slide to barrel fit with the older 9mm models and benched groups that are much larger than other firearms when using the same ammo. I believe them, even though I have not personally experienced it.

Obviously the rifling in the older models was causing a problem, otherwise S&W wouldn't have changed it. They've also changed the barrel lockup design a few times. I wonder why...? Glock, Beretta, and H&K have never changed their rifling pitch. Why? Because there is no need to; it works fine. However, each of these manufacturers have modified other things? Why? Because it was causing problems.

The accuracy issues with the full size 9mm M&Ps are just like the brass to face issues with newer Glocks. The fanboys never want to blame the gun, but always blame the shooter, ammo, or planetary alignment. True, most gun issues are caused by some things other than the gun, but in some cases the gun can be the sole cause of the problem.

 

[Bkreutz]

Obviously the rifling in the older models was causing a problem, otherwise S&W wouldn't have changed it.

.

I have to disagree on this one. I think S&W changed the twist rate in response to perceived problems that were being discussed on various internet forums , Faster twist rates have some marginal improvements in certain situations but if it were a real problem, the barrel makers like KKM, Storm Lake and others would have changed to a faster twist rate, which they didn't All of my KKM barrels are a 1:18 (or so) twist rate which is what the older factory barrels are. I think changing the twist rate in the barrel was more of a marketing thing than an actual improvement in performance. (that way Smith could sell a whole new generation of M&P's to those that just have to have the latest version). I can swap barrels around to various manufacturers and twist rates and my accuracy is the same no matter which I am using. I did buy them to see if they were any better, and my male pride would sure like to say that I spent my money wisely, but IMO I didn't. Shooting better doesn't come from "upgrades" but rather from a lot of practice. "Upgrades" are fun, and I like new gadgets as much as the next "tinkerer". But in the end, it's boring practice that is the best return on investment.

 

[attrapereves]

I have to disagree on this one. I think S&W changed the twist rate in response to perceived problems that were being discussed on various internet forums , Faster twist rates have some marginal improvements in certain situations but if it were a real problem, the barrel makers like KKM, Storm Lake and others would have changed to a faster twist rate, which they didn't All of my KKM barrels are a 1:18 (or so) twist rate which is what the older factory barrels are. I think changing the twist rate in the barrel was more of a marketing thing than an actual improvement in performance. (that way Smith could sell a whole new generation of M&P's to those that just have to have the latest version). I can swap barrels around to various manufacturers and twist rates and my accuracy is the same no matter which I am using. I did buy them to see if they were any better, and my male pride would sure like to say that I spent my money wisely, but IMO I didn't. Shooting better doesn't come from "upgrades" but rather from a lot of practice. "Upgrades" are fun, and I like new gadgets as much as the next "tinkerer". But in the end, it's boring practice that is the best return on investment.

I messed with an aftermarket barrel for my Glock 20 and like you, found no improvement in accuracy. However, it's nice to be able to fire lead bullets.

Have you tried different bullet weights in your early stock barrel? Apparently the twist rate was causing issues with 115gr ammo, but other weights were fine. I usually shoot 124gr jacketed or lead and have seen no issues.

I read a few stories where people sent their guns to S&W and they suggested 147gr for whatever reason.

 

[Wessels69p]

I had some friends try it and have the same issues as I. I looked into the barrel change. Mine is a 2013 model and does not have the "improved" barrel update. I called S&W, they said due to people installing .40 barrels on 9's and vice versus, they won't sell barrels anymore (directly). He said I could send the gun in on a targeting warranty claim. Their spec is 3" group at 20ft. I do have an apex trigger so I'm sure I have to swap the stock one in before sending in.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, let's clear up the rifling twist issue. S&W used the 1-18.75 rifling twist on all their 9mm pistols from 1949 until very recently. There is no body of evidence suggesting that suddenly, the rifling twist presents an accuracy problem in need of solution. By recently changing rifling twist, S&W is simply changing to the rifling twist used most commonly for 9mm. The change may be of benefit to those competitors using 147 gr bullets at 800 fps or so.

Having disposed of that, we can move on. The trigger action of the M&P series is much like that of an extremely well tuned double action revolver. Many people more accustomed to the trigger action of most other semi-auto pistol designs tend to lose patience during the trigger stroke and finish it off with a hefty yank. This typically results in low, left hits for right handed shooters. Certainly did for me and for most of those I was instructing in transition training. This is corrected by practice, perhaps aided by qualified instruction.

So, hate to break it to you, but the problem is most likely software, the nut behind the trigger or however you wish to describe yourself. And any friends who may have "assisted" you.

Once you're accustomed to the trigger action, the sights may need a wee bit of adjustment to get the final shot placement correct.

 

[Johnmuratore]

Why should Smiths care about people using 9mm barrels in 40s? I'm sure they make money selling barrels, and if they don't they could raise the price. A company that doesn't want to sell something they could make money from needs help in the marketing/sales department.

 

[Wessels69p]

I do acknowledge that I may still be the problem. I'm going to the range and do some instructor assisted drills this Saturday before I buy a barrel or send back to S&W. Again, I am not bashing the gun. I love it and my other s&w pistol, too. I am just challenged with this particular one in ways I am not with my other handguns.

 

[Prasko]

Have someone else shoot it. It's a quick easy way to rule out user error.

 

[lhump1961]

Have someone else shoot it. It's a quick easy way to rule out user error.

...assuming the next person can shoot worth a....!

 

[Rastoff]

These accuracy issues are quite common with the M&P and the cause is almost always the shooter.

If you haven't shot the gun from a rest, any statement on accuracy is anecdotal. It is possible that there is a problem with the gun. It wouldn't be the first one. Still, the assessment cannot be made while shooting off hand.

 

[WR Moore]

Why should Smiths care about people using 9mm barrels in 40s?

One word: LIABILITY. If some lame, cheap individual chooses to misuse their product by using it in a manner never intended by the manufacturer and is injured, they-or their estate-will find a scum sucking shyster to sue S&W. The grounds will be that if the barrel wasn't intended to fit a .40 caliber slide, S&W should have made it impossible to be installed in that slide/pistol.

To those who decide to make multi-caliber pistols by sticking barrels into slides not intended for them: buy the conversion barrels made specifically for this purpose. It's still not a bright idea, but, hey, it's your life.