M&P 9mm inherent accuracy problems?
- Thread starter Smug Monkey
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accessbob
Member
Just a reminder in case anyone forgets - 25 yards = 75 feet. My pistol range I shoot at is only 50 feet (16.67 yards) and the 21 foot zone is 7 yards.
I would be more concerned if I couldn't hit on target between 7 and 16 yards.
I would be more concerned if I couldn't hit on target between 7 and 16 yards.
clcdawg
Member
Well I am more accurate with my M&P 9 than a Glock 19. And I have had 3 Glocks and this is my first m&p so I know how to shoot Glocks. By the way did you notice I said had 3 Glocks. They are all gone but the M&P is here to stay.
Shooting Padre
US Veteran
I have an M&P9 and found that the gun is very accurate, me, not so much. For some reason I find that this gun demands a little more attention to proper mechanics and trigger pull than some others I've shot. This is good, it challenges me to be better. I also find that the M&P22 is a great practice gun for the bigger brothers. It is the best shooting .22 pistol I've ever had. It is hard to end shooting sessions with this gun it's s much fun. I love my M&Ps.
cyberiad
Member
I think accurate has to be defined. From what I've read, many of the reports of poor accuracy are from USPSA shooters who often shoot targets at 25 yards or more. I had a Pro 9mm for a short time and could "hit" at 25 yards with my 147 grain reloads but I never shot it for groups so it seemed "accurate" but I didn't know for sure. Was it good enough? For what I needed, yes.
Testing "accuracy" of a handgun at 7 yards is ridiculous to me. If your M&P is for self-defense and you are satisfied with it then there is no problem and all the other reports may seem like "bs." But I've shot High Points that were "fine" at 7 yards so it all depends on your perspective.
Sure, this "problem" has only been documented on the web but where else is it supposed to be documented? It's not like S&W is going to publish information about how many M&Ps are being sent back to them because the shooter can't get any better than a 6" group at 25 yards. For a guy or gal who bought an M&P for USPSA that's a problem. Whether that means the M&P itself is "inherently inaccurate" is irrelevant, at least to me.
Testing "accuracy" of a handgun at 7 yards is ridiculous to me. If your M&P is for self-defense and you are satisfied with it then there is no problem and all the other reports may seem like "bs." But I've shot High Points that were "fine" at 7 yards so it all depends on your perspective.
Sure, this "problem" has only been documented on the web but where else is it supposed to be documented? It's not like S&W is going to publish information about how many M&Ps are being sent back to them because the shooter can't get any better than a 6" group at 25 yards. For a guy or gal who bought an M&P for USPSA that's a problem. Whether that means the M&P itself is "inherently inaccurate" is irrelevant, at least to me.
I don't think there's a problem at all. It's an m4c issue.... According to them you have to hit bullseyes .. at 25yds...
Titegroups
Member
Sounds like I need to drag mine out to the bullseye range and see what it will do at 25 and 50yds. Precision target shooting isn't what they were designed for but I bet it will hold 3-4" at 25 which is typical for a plastic framed gun. Anybody got a ransom rest?
WK1025
Member
Boy, I hope the new 9fs I got yesterday shoots as well as the M&P22 I have. I borrowed a buddy's M&P45 fs and that's why I sold every other gun I had. My Glocks, 1911 and revolvers. I shoot the M&p's better. I'm getting old and find the soft shooting M&P's are easier on my hands. The 45 fs and the 22 shoot as well as any of the Glocks I had and more reliable than MY 1911. I'm sold.
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The M&P 9mm is my first handgun actually. When I initially started testing at the range, my shots were low and to the left also.
But...once I got use to the trigger and kickback everything was fine at that point.
But...once I got use to the trigger and kickback everything was fine at that point.
Have both M&P 9 and 9c. I can be just as accurate with the 9c as the full size. I find myself with a big grin out at the range because they are both so darn easy to shoot. It's really easy to fill a fist size area on a target at 30 ft. That should be good enough for a ccw. Now what's your reason for using a pistola on something 75 ft. away? Certainly not self defense cause if that's the case you are in a world of hurt. If it's just throwing junk down the range to see how far you can, just have fun with it. If you are shooting coyotes go get the rifle.
I don't pay any attention to internet chatter about accuracy. That seems to be more an issue of the user than the gun. Now reliability, customer service, and repair are things that I worth checking out on the internet.
I don't pay any attention to internet chatter about accuracy. That seems to be more an issue of the user than the gun. Now reliability, customer service, and repair are things that I worth checking out on the internet.
MrApathy
Member
I would like to see results of a ransom rest and M&P 9 at 25 yards
would not be surprised some people have difficulty with the M&P trigger
would not be surprised some people have difficulty with the M&P trigger
More accuracy please...
Been shooting my HS Victor since I was in college. Very Accurate in my hands. Same on the 1911 platform guns.
The M&P9 FS is my first polymer gun... but I tried them all first. Shot the glocks best, but figured the Smith was just a learning curve.
Putting 1000 rounds through the M&P cleaned up a lot of bad habbits that a heavy gun let me get away with. Now I have even better trigger control and isoloation of movement. Much improved follow through. But moving past 10 yds, well, that has been very frustrating. After 500 rounds, started shooting benched groups to see what was up. Geezzz, I was missing the paper on some groups, and POI kept changing. Taped the rear site down to a narrow slit, and that improved with the grouping somewhat. What is strange, one set will be all over and off the paper, and then another set of 5 will actually group up....still 5+ inches at 25yds. Pulled out a Sig 229 that I have on loan to purchase, and after 40 test rounds was grouping less than 5 inches "OFF HAND" at 25 yards... can only do better with my Victor and MatchDot... and a Bullseye grade 1911.
After finding numerous threads with this common theme, I too am convinced something is up with these guns. Want to start shooting local IDPA this summer, but I can't have a gun that I don't believe in. Going to try the trip back to Smith, and maybe get lucky if they swap out the barrel and slide (small slide, fat barrel please!).
Oh, gun has the comp Apex kit installed.... trigger is smooth now, no creep, just the slightly mushy break these guns seem to have.
I would shoot a box... put it down, and pick up something else to show my brain that I can shoot... and then try it again.
The first day, this gun just killed my confidence. I am stuborn, though, and wishing for a fix.
Cw
Been shooting my HS Victor since I was in college. Very Accurate in my hands. Same on the 1911 platform guns.
The M&P9 FS is my first polymer gun... but I tried them all first. Shot the glocks best, but figured the Smith was just a learning curve.
Putting 1000 rounds through the M&P cleaned up a lot of bad habbits that a heavy gun let me get away with. Now I have even better trigger control and isoloation of movement. Much improved follow through. But moving past 10 yds, well, that has been very frustrating. After 500 rounds, started shooting benched groups to see what was up. Geezzz, I was missing the paper on some groups, and POI kept changing. Taped the rear site down to a narrow slit, and that improved with the grouping somewhat. What is strange, one set will be all over and off the paper, and then another set of 5 will actually group up....still 5+ inches at 25yds. Pulled out a Sig 229 that I have on loan to purchase, and after 40 test rounds was grouping less than 5 inches "OFF HAND" at 25 yards... can only do better with my Victor and MatchDot... and a Bullseye grade 1911.
After finding numerous threads with this common theme, I too am convinced something is up with these guns. Want to start shooting local IDPA this summer, but I can't have a gun that I don't believe in. Going to try the trip back to Smith, and maybe get lucky if they swap out the barrel and slide (small slide, fat barrel please!).
Oh, gun has the comp Apex kit installed.... trigger is smooth now, no creep, just the slightly mushy break these guns seem to have.
I would shoot a box... put it down, and pick up something else to show my brain that I can shoot... and then try it again.
The first day, this gun just killed my confidence. I am stuborn, though, and wishing for a fix.
Cw
gamma72
Member
I would think that my problem is, just like you said, with the trigger. I traded a accurate shooting Sig SP2022, it's a DA/SA, that is just not comfortable to grip. At 25 feet I can get 3" five shot groups at the center of the target using WWB and some reloads. With the M&P best I can get is 4" five shot groups left of center using the same rounds and distance.
This is my first pistol with a trigger safety and I could probably blame that on trigger control which should get better with practice. i'm not the best shot but I can do 2" five shot groups, sometime better at that same distance with my 1911.
Maddmax
US Veteran
I have six M&P's. Four FS (3- 9's and a FS 45) and ALL were tack drivers right out of the box and keep getting better. They all keep a quarter size group at 15 yards. The more I shoot my Shield,the better it's getting too. M&P 22 just needs a good breaking in. It won't out do my High Standard,but I didn't expect it to.
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
The first M&P9 I shot was a tack driver, the compact even more so! But they were the first ones out of the barn too. Thing is I believe that some folks expect bullseye accuracy out of a combat weapon, some do it and some don't. If you can hold a 6 inch group at 25yds. it's perfectly acceptable or so called "combat accurate".
Thing about fighting though is everything is fluid, you may or may not use your sights, you may be in the most awkward firing position you've ever thought of! My point is the M&P was designed as a fighter not a target shooter, and if it can shoot a 3 inch group at 25 it's good!
Despite my fondness for the 3rd Gens, I'm gonna have to get another M&P in 9mm, just too see what is going on with them. Dale
Thing about fighting though is everything is fluid, you may or may not use your sights, you may be in the most awkward firing position you've ever thought of! My point is the M&P was designed as a fighter not a target shooter, and if it can shoot a 3 inch group at 25 it's good!
Despite my fondness for the 3rd Gens, I'm gonna have to get another M&P in 9mm, just too see what is going on with them. Dale
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The gents who have commented upon trigger control have it. I've done 5 inch groups from prone with a stock M&P9 at 50 yards. Hits on Pepper poppers at over 100 aren't that hard either and we weren't using prone.
Yes, the piece was designed as a combat gun, but that doesn't mean it can't shoot well. The user is another story. Acquiring skill is gonna take work. The general issue is that the stock trigger is very much like an extremely well tuned double action revolver with a short stroke.
People get impatient when performing the trigger stroke and finish off with a yank to fire it. This is especially true with those used to tuned 1911s and the single action part of the TDA triggers. I repeat, it's gonna take work on your part, it did for me when we transitioned from TDA issue weapons. It also seemed that it took longer, the better shot you were.
I'd strongly suggest quit swapping back and forth between different trigger types and concentrate on shooting groups, not round count.
Also, groups can be a function of sight alignment and sight picture. Sights a little blurry? Maybe need to visit the eye doctor? You might try a visit to Wallyworld with a pen. Try out some reading glasses and see how sharp the image of the end of a pen is when the tip is held at the distance of your front sight.
Yes, the piece was designed as a combat gun, but that doesn't mean it can't shoot well. The user is another story. Acquiring skill is gonna take work. The general issue is that the stock trigger is very much like an extremely well tuned double action revolver with a short stroke.
People get impatient when performing the trigger stroke and finish off with a yank to fire it. This is especially true with those used to tuned 1911s and the single action part of the TDA triggers. I repeat, it's gonna take work on your part, it did for me when we transitioned from TDA issue weapons. It also seemed that it took longer, the better shot you were.
I'd strongly suggest quit swapping back and forth between different trigger types and concentrate on shooting groups, not round count.
Also, groups can be a function of sight alignment and sight picture. Sights a little blurry? Maybe need to visit the eye doctor? You might try a visit to Wallyworld with a pen. Try out some reading glasses and see how sharp the image of the end of a pen is when the tip is held at the distance of your front sight.
I hear you, but...
I agree that a lot of problems are us the shooters.... but when I take a handgun, sandbag it on a bench, and it won't group.... well, it won't group. If your M&P will hit poppers at 100yds, great. Mine won't. I'd be afraid it would miss the backstop of my private shooting range.
If you haven't been the lucky recipient of one of these less than consistant M&P's, you aren't going to believe. I didn't, that is why I purchased it! This is the first handgun that I have fired that isn't even close to what I can do with a handgun. My training is mostly target, bullseye shooting. Bought the M&P to branch out to try some defensive shooting drills and some local IDPA with my son (love his sig 226 in .40, even with the stock trigger!) I won't tolerate a gun that won't group at 25yds.... and flame what you want about that not being a practical distance. For me, that is the gold standard of accuracy. Shooting at 25yds will reveal your flaws in a real hurry.
I don't expect the M&P to be a bullseye gun, that's for my 1911's... but I demand that it have SOME accuracy, mine throws flyers at will. At 10-15 yds, I am calling my shots pretty spot on with every other gun I own. No clue with this one.
Try to keep an open mind. Cw
I agree that a lot of problems are us the shooters.... but when I take a handgun, sandbag it on a bench, and it won't group.... well, it won't group. If your M&P will hit poppers at 100yds, great. Mine won't. I'd be afraid it would miss the backstop of my private shooting range.
If you haven't been the lucky recipient of one of these less than consistant M&P's, you aren't going to believe. I didn't, that is why I purchased it! This is the first handgun that I have fired that isn't even close to what I can do with a handgun. My training is mostly target, bullseye shooting. Bought the M&P to branch out to try some defensive shooting drills and some local IDPA with my son (love his sig 226 in .40, even with the stock trigger!) I won't tolerate a gun that won't group at 25yds.... and flame what you want about that not being a practical distance. For me, that is the gold standard of accuracy. Shooting at 25yds will reveal your flaws in a real hurry.
I don't expect the M&P to be a bullseye gun, that's for my 1911's... but I demand that it have SOME accuracy, mine throws flyers at will. At 10-15 yds, I am calling my shots pretty spot on with every other gun I own. No clue with this one.
Try to keep an open mind. Cw
Nakanokalronin
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Got back to the range today and here are the results.
This is honestly the best target when benching the FS M&P 9mm.
5rds/S&B 115gr./15 yards/benched
The next two target are from off hand shooting with slightly quick, consistent trigger pulls. I actually seemed to be able to get better groups this way and shockingly enough, the Tula (I wrote Wolf on the paper
) ) was the most accurate. Although none of it is even slightly impressive, I guess it like the grungiest ammo the best.
16rds/Tula 115gr./15 yards/offhand
15rds/HST 124gr.+P/15 yards/offhand
The Apex sear did help with the trigger over stock and may have helped a tad with offhand shooting since there were no fliers. I've shot plenty of poly guns like XDs and Glocks, DA/SA pistols galore and many many SAO semi-autos like 1911s so I don't think it has anything to do with my shooting or trigger control when it comes to the accuracy of the FS M&P 9mm.
ETA: Just to be clear in case someone asks, I've owned probably 50+ handguns in my lifetime, many of them striker fired poly guns and I've gotten better groups using the same type of ammo. I also benched it so only a ransom rest is left to test it out, which I don't have. I can get 4" groups or less with a 1911,XD,Glock, Ruger P-Series,Beretta,Sig,CZ, S&W and Ruger revolvers, BHP, etc so I would say it must have something to do with the gun since all those guns have different types of triggers and configurations.
This is honestly the best target when benching the FS M&P 9mm.
5rds/S&B 115gr./15 yards/benched
The next two target are from off hand shooting with slightly quick, consistent trigger pulls. I actually seemed to be able to get better groups this way and shockingly enough, the Tula (I wrote Wolf on the paper
) ) was the most accurate. Although none of it is even slightly impressive, I guess it like the grungiest ammo the best. 16rds/Tula 115gr./15 yards/offhand
15rds/HST 124gr.+P/15 yards/offhand
The Apex sear did help with the trigger over stock and may have helped a tad with offhand shooting since there were no fliers. I've shot plenty of poly guns like XDs and Glocks, DA/SA pistols galore and many many SAO semi-autos like 1911s so I don't think it has anything to do with my shooting or trigger control when it comes to the accuracy of the FS M&P 9mm.
ETA: Just to be clear in case someone asks, I've owned probably 50+ handguns in my lifetime, many of them striker fired poly guns and I've gotten better groups using the same type of ammo. I also benched it so only a ransom rest is left to test it out, which I don't have. I can get 4" groups or less with a 1911,XD,Glock, Ruger P-Series,Beretta,Sig,CZ, S&W and Ruger revolvers, BHP, etc so I would say it must have something to do with the gun since all those guns have different types of triggers and configurations.
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