Little Help with the Glock and M&P "problems"

[marine6680]

People still complain about the gen 4 glocks...

But the problems have been sorted out and they are good to go.


The m&p line is just as reliable as glock, so don't worry about that.

The m&p compact is close to the size of the glock 26... So it is easier to conceal than the G19. It holds 12 rounds, and can accept full size mags.

Am m&p with an apex trigger is very nice, I prefer it to a glock trigger in the same weight. I prefer the glock trigger over the stock m&p though. If they put the thicker trigger from the shield on the other m&p pistol so would have less issues with the stock setup.


I like my glock 19 gen4 but little ergonomic annoyances persist. I actually prefer the g17 for its longer grip and wider space between the finger grooves.

Overall I would take the m&p FS and compact over a glock 19. I can carry the FS in winter just fine, as it's not much bigger Han a G19.

All fine pistols though.

 

[ATF]

The Glock thing will go on forever my advice would be if you like the look and feel of Glocks go down that road. They have earned a reputation for reliability but most other manufacturers have caught up now. Many fine guns out there. No polymer pistol is going to put all the shots through the same hole at 15 yards, they weren't designed for that. Their advantage is they are light and high capacity. The more you shoot you will discover the strengths and weaknesses of each and how each one can be tuned for accuracy and reliability. My M&P 9 FS 4.25" is my favorite and go to gun but it took a lot of tuning to get it there and ten of thousands of rounds downrange. Now most people will never shoot that amount of ammo in their life. The other hand guns I own are Sigs, H&K and S&W revolvers and they are very fine and accurate too but nothing is as fast on target or familiar as my M&P.

 

[Rastoff]

They have earned a reputation for reliability but most other manufacturers have caught up now.

That's just funny right there.

 

[ATF]

That's just funny right there.

Apologies Rastoff don't understand

 

[Rastoff]

It's the part about "other manufacturers have caught up" that made me laugh. You were being sarcastic, right?

 

[Old TexMex]

Here's where the glock fan lectures the world. Go ahead, let's hear it....again

(and remember, a backbone and a funnybone)

 

[ATF]

It's the part about "other manufacturers have caught up" that made me laugh. You were being sarcastic, right?

Maybe I should have said they have a reputation for reliability but I didn't want to upset the Glock guys with the reliability argument

You know how these Glock threads go

 

[Old TexMex]

A big plus for agencies (not mentioning the one most recently trained with) using Glock is the real ones feel just like the red and blue ones.
Toss them all in the big box just inside the door and after drills, practice and lectures, if you wind up with someone elses, it doesn't matter, they're all same same.

 

[Kanewpadle]

It's the part about "other manufacturers have caught up" that made me laugh. You were being sarcastic, right?

They have caught up. Glock set the standard for reliability straight out of the box. No fluff and buff. No tweaking and tuning.

And for the record, I'm not a Glock guy. I'm a gun guy. I own Glock's, M&P's, 1911's, and revolvers.

 

[Sean from Vt]

I would think your main concern should be commonality of ammo and magazines. Choose a caliber (9mm is just fine, 40 works as well but is more expensive) and then shoot some guns and pick a manufacturer.

I own 2 Glocks currently. Both 10mm Gen 4s because I have the disease. I've owned previous Gen 17s and 23s. The finger grooves on current 9/40 Glocks do not feel good to me. The M&P feels like home. So for me the M&P wins. I keep looking at buying a 9c but already have a Shield so I believe I'll just buy another FS 9.

 

[ATF]

They have caught up. Glock set the standard for reliability straight out of the box. No fluff and buff. No tweaking and tuning.

And for the record, I'm not a Glock guy. I'm a gun guy. I own Glock's, M&P's, 1911's, and revolvers.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. It's now 30 years since Glock officially launched and every manufacturer dragged their feet believing polymer would be a fad. Well how wrong could they have been. It took S&W 20 years to wake up and launch the M&P. I remember fly fishermen bemoaning the change from split cane to fiberglass and then boron and carbon rods and the change from silk to pvc fly lines. I admit however that I never thought bottled water would take off

 

[FrankHenryLee]

-Training Consistency and conquering the G19
I find Glock and M&P to be very different guns when it comes to feel. The trigger reach, pull before the break and the break point of each trigger are quite different and the way that I grip each gun seems to be quite different, especially with the support hand. I find that if I shoot one more often than the other I develop a familiarity with that one and moving back to the other seems awkward for a moment. I don't have the money to shoot all the time so its important to me to shoot one gun. That's what the training consistency is all about. The G19 seems to be able to fill all roles, big enough to seem like a full size, but still small enough to carry most of the time. I carried IWB in a T-shirt today with minimal printing.

Conquering the accuracy issues that I have is my concern. I thought about moving to the gen4, but after shooting the gen3 and 4 side by side, there was no difference in accuracy. I'm sure its a lack of technique, so we shall see if the minus connector helps hide some of those flaws. My next trip I'm going to try applying pressure mainly to the front and back of the grip, but in dry-fire practice this seems to be a difficult thing to accomplish while still maintaining a strong grip. My grip has evolved since I started and the accuracy has improved, but still not what it should be. Does anyone have any advice as far as what has helped their accuracy?

 

[SickMAK90]

I have a g19 and a m&p 9c and prefer the m&p. For me accuracy is about the same but I just prefer the trigger/ergos of the m&p better.

The 9c is a great size IMO. It conceals great with a flush mag and you still get 12+1 capacity. The g19 is a fine pistol as well and I have 5,000+ trouble free rounds through mine. I was a die hard glock nut until I ran my dads m&p 9 FS against my Glocks on a timer and the gun I wasn't used to won...

Now I only have one glock and as soon as I get some NICS stuff fixed I'll have a m&p 9c and FS.

 

[McE]

I'd rather shoot many guns well and ignore Glocks than to shoot Glocks well and be subpar with every other gun.

 

[ATF]

-Training Consistency and conquering the G19
I find Glock and M&P to be very different guns when it comes to feel. The trigger reach, pull before the break and the break point of each trigger are quite different and the way that I grip each gun seems to be quite different, especially with the support hand. I find that if I shoot one more often than the other I develop a familiarity with that one and moving back to the other seems awkward for a moment. I don't have the money to shoot all the time so its important to me to shoot one gun. That's what the training consistency is all about. The G19 seems to be able to fill all roles, big enough to seem like a full size, but still small enough to carry most of the time. I carried IWB in a T-shirt today with minimal printing.

Conquering the accuracy issues that I have is my concern. I thought about moving to the gen4, but after shooting the gen3 and 4 side by side, there was no difference in accuracy. I'm sure its a lack of technique, so we shall see if the minus connector helps hide some of those flaws. My next trip I'm going to try applying pressure mainly to the front and back of the grip, but in dry-fire practice this seems to be a difficult thing to accomplish while still maintaining a strong grip. My grip has evolved since I started and the accuracy has improved, but still not what it should be. Does anyone have any advice as far as what has helped their accuracy?

Frank there's too many things to mention to improve your accuracy but some of the main things are firstly you must love the feel and balance of your gun. If that doesn't come naturally you're on an uphill slope. Another is ammo, you must match your ammo to the gun, the right weight and power unless you love the ammo so much you want to change springs. The sights must match your ammo and springs. The trigger must suit YOU nobody else but you. Find your preferred grip because all these polymer guns will force you to grip differently. If you want only one platform where you don't have to change or worry so much about your grip get a 1911 because they are all in various sizes basically the same framed gun.

 

[Hatchettjack]

Try out a ruger sr40c probably has the best trigger I've ever felt!

 

[Hatchettjack]

What I'm going to do is buy hickok45 the guy off YouTube to protect me 24/7

 

[FrankHenryLee]

So I got my minus connector installed and right off the bat I noticed that it felt much lighter and without the normally noticeable wall before the break. Almost undetectable break point actually. It did not lighten the takeup at all. It didn't seem like something that I wanted on a my carry gun. I took it to the range and felt the same after shooting it. Re-installed the stock connector and proceeded to tighten up my groups. Rented an M&P9c and shot it like total **** after getting used to the Glock. Rented a Gen4 G26 and shot it better than my 19. I know most people that can shoot well can generally do it with any gun, but I can't shoot worth a dang. I do improve greatly from the start of the range time to the end though. By the end my groups were about 2" at 30', which is excellent for me. With the 19, they were about 1" high and left of bullseye, the G26 was about 1" high and right. Another *** is I shot quite a few one handed and these seemed to hit dead center. Go figure.
Once again, I'm left scratching my head about the results.
Why did I shoot so bad with the M&P9c, which I had shot pretty well before?
Why was one handed better than two?
I feel like I can tell when I make a bad shot, but how come I still get the occasional flyer that I can't account for?
Obviously, still some bad technique. Is this supposed to be this tough, or should this come more naturally.

What is the normal grouping at 30' for the average shooter?

 

[chiro972b]

The gen 4 blocks had some early extraction issues that have been long fixed. My gen 4 19 has been flawless. I prefer the grip angle of my M&P's, but I can't find a match for the 19 that has the capacity and the easy conceal ability, so it is what I carry. For my marksmanship, I always attribute flyers to my own lack of skills. In self defense distances, it really doesn't matter much. The gun is plenty accurate.

 

[Rastoff]

I shot quite a few one handed and these seemed to hit dead center. Go figure.
Once again, I'm left scratching my head about the results.

This doesn't really surprise me a lot. There are a lot of bad habits people develop. Sometimes, the cause of poor accuracy or poor repeatability is due to the support hand. Remove the cause and groups get smaller.

I'd have to see you shoot before I could make a more detailed analysis.

Your troubles with the 9c could be shooter physical or mental issues or equipment. The M&P series is not known for it's great trigger.

By the end my groups were about 2" at 30', which is excellent for me.

What is the normal grouping at 30' for the average shooter?

Interesting question. I'll let some others answer this before I take a stab at it.

Seriously, your shooting is pretty good. A 2" group at 10 yards is harder than most think.