Little Help with the Glock and M&P "problems"

[Watchdog]

What continues to surprise me is that the 1911 is more reliable that all of them.

We're on the same page regarding the 1911. Don't look now, though, but there are probably about 500 guys lining up right now to argue that with you and bash the 1911...just like they like to bash Glocks.

I've seen threads before about "If you could only have one gun...", and if that were the case, I'd probably pick a 1911.

 

[Rastoff]

Don't look now, though, but there are probably about 500 guys lining up right now to argue that with you and bash the 1911...just like they like to bash Glocks.

That's OK with me. I'd welcome the discussion, just not here. This is about a choice between the M&P and Glock, two good guns for the price range.

Ultimately, it's a difficult choice between these two. I do have a suggestion to help answer the question though. Try this:

• Focus on a target, it can be anything.
• Close your eyes. Keep them closed.
• Bring the gun up and point it at the target you just focused on without opening your eyes.
• Now that you're "on target" open your eyes.

Whichever gun has the sights most closely aligned when you open your eyes, is the right one for you. All trigger issues and flyers can be dealt with through training and practice. Natural point of aim is much more difficult to alter.

 

[jstanfield103]

I won't argue about the 1911. Just plain Love it.

 

[gen3guy]

I can't speak to the quality of the M&P because I've never needed to consider it. I've had one Glock 19 serving it's purpose for over 20 years. It has never failed me and as such no alternative has ever needed to be considered. Also, when I hear "M&P" I can't get the image of a .38 special revolver (model 10) out of my head. I guess I just dated myself.

 

[shawn mccarver]

With proper maintenance, and NO after market parts changing, either pistol will serve you well. Any Gen 4 Glock problems were resolved long ago. The rifling change to 1:10 in the M&P a while back solved the accuracy issues in the M&P. The Gen 3 Glock 19 is arguably the best option, it being completely reliable, and its size permitting both range and duty use, as well as concealed carry.

 

[Rastoff]

I guess I just dated myself.

Not really...

This one is still made along with 4 others...

 

[Wyatt p. Tato]

I purchased 2 guns the same day, a S&W 9c and a Glock 19, about a week later I went to a bowling pin shoot for the first time. Glock 19, five shots 5 pins down. Next round 9c emptied 2 magazines not one pin down. M&P sold, more new glocks purchased. I have since discovered CZ, they beat the glocks and smiths.

 

[ATF]

It's all down to ergonomics. Look at H&K they still keep their USP line with grips like bricks but they also have the P30, VP9 and 45 with excellent ergonomic grips. As a previous Glock owner handling my M&P for the first time was like a breath of fresh air. With the APEX trigger and the FSS kit the M&P is what Glock should have transitioned into. Why they don't go down the H&K route is beyond me but I expect all the Glock guys would say it's not a real Glock.

 

[Mack]

Well considering that Delta Force and now MARSOC are using the Glock 19 that carries some weight with it. I am not sure what Gen they are using but know that Delta's are FDE and they are issued the only FDE mags ever made. FWIW my opinion of Glocks is as a firearm I don't care for them at all, as a self defense tool for all their flaws I respect the heck out of them.

Also Hobby-Gunsmith no major LE organization has ever used the SAI XD are you saying someone is now? And .357 Sig along with .40 S&W is on it's way out with a lot of depts, even the FBI is going to 9 MM.

 

[ATF]

Well considering that Delta Force and now MARSOC are using the Glock 19 that carries some weight with it. I am not sure what Gen they are using but know that Delta's are FDE and they are issued the only FDE mags ever made.

Glock is used by most military and police departments around the World for various reasons but that doesn't mean it's the right gun for you. For the military it's a weapon of last resort. In most circumstances if a soldier had to use a handgun something must have gone seriously wrong. For LEO's a Glock is a point and shoot issued by their department that will work well straight out of the box with little maintenance and plenty of abuse. However for someone who spends a lot of time at the range and is interested in modifying their firearms there are many other options out there.

 

[Arik]

Well considering that Delta Force and now MARSOC are using the Glock 19 that carries some weight with it. I am not sure what Gen they are using but know that Delta's are FDE and they are issued the only FDE mags ever made. FWIW my opinion of Glocks is as a firearm I don't care for them at all, as a self defense tool for all their flaws I respect the heck out of them.

Also Hobby-Gunsmith no major LE organization has ever used the SAI XD are you saying someone is now? And .357 Sig along with .40 S&W is on it's way out with a lot of depts, even the FBI is going to 9 MM.

I only know of one department that has XD. Easton Pa. They have 41 total policemen including the chief

 

[Mack]

Glock is used by most military and police departments around the World for various reasons but that doesn't mean it's the right gun for you. For the military it's a weapon of last resort. In most circumstances if a soldier had to use a handgun something must have gone seriously wrong. For LEO's a Glock is a point and shoot issued by their department that will work well straight out of the box with little maintenance and plenty of abuse. However for someone who spends a lot of time at the range and is interested in modifying their firearms there are many other options out there.

ATF you stated my reasoning quite well, for everyday SD and CCW I believe the Glock 19 and Glock 26 are the best choices. Notice I said "and" not or, for different carry options you need both, 19 for IWB or OWB and 26 for ankle or pocket. For recreational shooting or special SD such as in bear county that's where all the others come into play ;-).

 

[FrankHenryLee]

I knew this would get a little opinionated, but that's ok. Was really hoping to gets some hard facts about the two problems with each gun.
On the topic of my crappy shooting, I rented one of the new G41s and shot it better than any of my pistols, which doesn't give much credence to the whole smaller grip=easier to shoot well idea. It's not exactly a carry gun though. I got out my G30 and shot it about the same as the others. I felt like maybe the slightly lighter/smoother trigger may have contributed, so I ordered a minus connector for my 19 to see if it might help.

Please save the light trigger in a carry gun lectures though. I'm set on making the G19 work as I had an experience that sold me on Glock at the range last night. I rented a Gen4 G22 and was shooting it side by side with my M&P40 FS(Yes, I dropped some serious dough at the range last night trying to figure this out). I had a round of cheap range ammo that would not feed in my M&P40 FS. I tried to shoot it again, but it FTF'd again. Figured it was out-of-spec, so who cares, moved on. When I ran out of 40 that one bullet was sitting there so I picked it up, stuck it in the Glock mag, and the Glock, true to its reputation, shot it like every other bullet that day. After this happened, I tried to examine the feeding of the M&P when I got home. I only had some Hornady Critical Defense 165gr. I put the round in the mag, put the mag in the gun, and slowly racked the slide back and forward and the round got hung at angle about 1/8" into the chamber. It does not do this when releasing from slide release or when slingshotting it. My G30 and G19 feed so smooth you can barely tell they're loading a round.

I'm sure those with M&P's will scoff at this, maybe mines just a little too tight. I've put at least 500 through it though. Maybe worrying about some ****ty range ammo not feeding is ridiculous as I always have quality HP's. Or maybe I never shoot it worth a ****, but it's still minute of bad guy.

So my quest to conquer the Glock moves on. The conversation is interesting and I'll update my minus connector results when it comes in. It may not do a dang thing for me and then I'll be wondering about the M&P again.

 

[Penna Shooter]

"I knew this would get a little opinionated" that's the beauty of it, freedom of opinion and choices. Read the whole thread and so many different take and taste. Its all preference & to each there own. Its a wondeful thing, enough said....carry on

 

[ATF]

Frank I would suggest that you first ask yourself exactly what you are looking for? Are you looking for a FS, compact or sub-compact, micro or what? What is your criteria? Carry, HD or range? One gun can't do it all. Once you narrow it down to what your first priority is then you can move onto the next. First decide if you want to carry how are you going to do it? Pocket, IWB, OWB? Keep it in your car? One size doesn't fit all

 

[Arik]

I knew this would get a little opinionated, but that's ok. Was really hoping to gets some hard facts about the two problems with each gun.
On the topic of my crappy shooting, I rented one of the new G41s and shot it better than any of my pistols, which doesn't give much credence to the whole smaller grip=easier to shoot well idea. It's not exactly a carry gun though. I got out my G30 and shot it about the same as the others. I felt like maybe the slightly lighter/smoother trigger may have contributed, so I ordered a minus connector for my 19 to see if it might help.

Please save the light trigger in a carry gun lectures though. I'm set on making the G19 work as I had an experience that sold me on Glock at the range last night. I rented a Gen4 G22 and was shooting it side by side with my M&P40 FS(Yes, I dropped some serious dough at the range last night trying to figure this out). I had a round of cheap range ammo that would not feed in my M&P40 FS. I tried to shoot it again, but it FTF'd again. Figured it was out-of-spec, so who cares, moved on. When I ran out of 40 that one bullet was sitting there so I picked it up, stuck it in the Glock mag, and the Glock, true to its reputation, shot it like every other bullet that day. After this happened, I tried to examine the feeding of the M&P when I got home. I only had some Hornady Critical Defense 165gr. I put the round in the mag, put the mag in the gun, and slowly racked the slide back and forward and the round got hung at angle about 1/8" into the chamber. It does not do this when releasing from slide release or when slingshotting it. My G30 and G19 feed so smooth you can barely tell they're loading a round.

I'm sure those with M&P's will scoff at this, maybe mines just a little too tight. I've put at least 500 through it though. Maybe worrying about some ****ty range ammo not feeding is ridiculous as I always have quality HP's. Or maybe I never shoot it worth a ****, but it's still minute of bad guy.

So my quest to conquer the Glock moves on. The conversation is interesting and I'll update my minus connector results when it comes in. It may not do a dang thing for me and then I'll be wondering about the M&P again.

Why do you feel the need to conquer it? If it works and works for you why continue. Instead why not put that money and energy towards ammo, mags and training?!?!

There are dozens of great guns out there. Each with its own positive and negative attributes. You have one that is the best all around (this includes price and aftermarket parts). At 1.18 inches wide the 26/19/17 are one of the thinnest guns in their groups. There isn't a thinner one. The 19 holds the most ammo for its size. Most other guns top out at 15 for their full size (although this is changing now) and 12 for the compact. Mags can be found at just about any gun store and their cheap compared to others. Along with that there are cheap Asian mags which are ok as range mags and MagPull is starting to make mags for Glocks as well. Aftermarket parts are about as plentiful as for an AR. From my experience they have great customer service. I would say it's a great all around carry/self defense gun.

 

[dipperdave]

I have owned several Glocks models and calibers over the years but, currently only have two Gen 4 Glock 19s in service. I have never had a Glock fail to function no matter what ammo I feed it.

But, to say all the ejection problem with all Glocks were fixed long ago is simply incorrect. My two are barely 2 years old and both hammer my face with hot empties, regardless of what ammo I feed them. I am working through all the suggestions on Glock forums about how to fix the problem but so far nothing has worked. All the parts are the latest versions. I am not the only Gen 4 owner with this problem, which seems to be worse in the Glock 19 model.

I consider the Glock 19 to be the sweet spot in the whole Glock line. It is an excellent combination of useful caliber, size, cartridge capacity and handling. It's pretty hard to beat for cool weather carry. And I say that as someone who is not particularly fond of Glocks in general.

I have recently been taking my Glock 19, M&P full size 9 and my FNS-9 to the range together and shooting them one after another. My results have been:

* If my targets weren't marked with the gun which shot them you could hardly tell the difference, with the FNS getting a very slight advantage target after target, range session after range session.
* The M&P ergonomics is superior although the FNS is close. If the FNS texture were less aggressive it might feel as good as the M&P but it is very rough. The Glock is a distant third. Although I have gotten use to it, Glocks still have that 2x4 feel in my hand.
* The FNS has the best trigger period. The Smith & Glock are about equal and both are acceptable.
* The M&P has the least perceived recoil, which is probably related to the good ergonomics and soft grip material. The FNS is second and the Glock last, as you would expect since it is a smaller gun and smaller grip than other two full sized guns.
* So far there have been no malfunctions with any of the three guns using a variety of budget ammo and more costly high performance self defense rounds.
* Only the Glock exhibits brass to the face ejection behavior. Ejection is erratic on both my G19s, with some empties hitting me in the face and others ejecting to the right as they should.

These are my results and opinions and if you duplicated the range sessions with my three guns you results may differ slightly.

The Glock 19s are currently my cool weather carry guns after I installed Truglo TFO sights on them. Overall it is hard to beat the Glock 19 for that purpose. This weekend a local shop has the Shield on sale for $339 and I plan to pick one up to see how it works in the carry capacity.

OP, good luck with your choice. You likely can't go wrong with whichever you decide on.

 

[ATF]

dipperdave if you are having problems with the Glock extractor maybe consider an APEX. I use the APEX extractor on my M&P an excellent quality product https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Category?categoryId=23

 

[dipperdave]

dipperdave if you are having problems with the Glock extractor maybe consider an APEX. I use the APEX extractor on my M&P an excellent quality product https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Category?categoryId=23

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I am to the point of ordering the Apex Glock failure resistant extractor to see if it cures the problem. It's pretty expensive at $60 but others have had some success with it so I will give it a try.

I have a list, yes an actual written list, of suggestions from Glock forum members and have been working through each one. So far nothing has helped. They say if I trade my guns for one made in 2014 or 2015 I won't have a problem. Since mine have the most up-to-date parts I don't know why that would help.

Swapping parts or trading for the very latest production runs can get expensive when I'm just trying to get a "Glock Perfection" gun that doesn't try to put my eye out at least once every magazine full.

Thanks again.

 

[Fox4506]

Hey folks, hope your day's going well. I'm an owner of a G19 and M&P 40 FS, both purchased in early 2013. Like a lot of folks, I'd like to move to one platform or the other for training consistency. Main purpose is for carry so the M&Pc would be the better comparison to my 19, but I don't have one... yet.

If you have an M&P without a safety isn't the manual of arms basically the same? I mean they're both point and shoot, clearing malfunctions should be the same, etc. So for training purposes I don't see much difference myself.

I don't have a Glock, but I've shot quite a few...and used to carry one as a duty weapon. I shoot them well, but I like the grip angle much better on the M&P.

I agree with the advice you were given by Rastoff about finding the natural point of aim. This is very important in self defense situations...and the more naturally you point the weapon the better you'll shoot it under stress...and least I think so. Sometimes I even shoot with my eyes closed at the range just to see where I'm shooting by my natural point of aim.

With all that said, just go ahead and buy both...problem solved.

Fox