M1A upgrades?

[Grayfox]

Some of you might remember that I have a great love of the M1A rifle. I currently own four. There's two springers, a Socom 16 and a Scout Squad and a old Federal Ordnance M-14A. These are all fine rifles and shoot well within their intended purpose.
The fourth rifle is a standard model Springfield M1A. That's what this thread is about. While its plenty combat accurate, I want to turn this one into a match grade tack driver. So its going back to Springfield for some custom work.
I've already spoken to the folks at Springfield and here are my options. I know we have quite a few competitive shooters on this forum and I want to get your opinions and experiences to help me decide which option to take.

1. National Match upgrade package: This will basically turn the rifle into their usual National Match offering. It includes Springfield's match grade barrel, trigger work, glass bedding and National Match sights along with a few other minor touches. This will run around $475
2. Super Match package with a Douglas barrel. Around $600
3. Super Match package with a Krieger barrel . Roughly $650

So, are the name brand barrels really that much better than Springfield's barrel? If so, which should I choose? Bear in mind that I'm not a competition shooter. I just want a super accurate rifle for my own use.

 

[M29since14]

If you’re not going to use it in competition, and for the small difference in price, if it were my gun I would go with the Krieger barrel option.

 

[tt66]

Will the Super Match conversion include the rear lug on the receiver and if so, will they alter your stock as well? I spent a good bit of time on the M14 Forum when I was getting mine together. There is a gentleman named Tony Benn on the forum that is a great source of information. I went with Springfield's "Loaded" version for my regular M1A and then had a Bula built to meet my other "wants". The Bula has a 18.5" National Match contour barrel.

Tim

 

[Farmer17]

I saw where Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore has the M1-A Loaded for $1499 with free shipping. You might ask if your gun would be superior to one of those after you spend all that money and shipping or you might be better off selling your gun and just getting the Loaded model.

 

[Fishinfool]

Grayfox - I can only comment on my experience with the M1A. Bought a NM version years ago, and it was a 1 inch rifle with loads it liked. About 10 years ago, bought a regular wood stocked service model (both Springfield), and it turned out to also be a 1 inch rifle. Eventually sold the NM model as I was offered a good price for it. Triggers seemed about the same to me, and the NM iron sights were not an issue as I used them scoped.

I have read that one of the more important aspects on M1A accuracy is proper, tight bedding, and that constant take down for cleaning can adversely effect bedding / accuracy. A Fiberglass stock might be better in this regard?

I do know that Krieger barrels have a very good reputation with benchrest shooters.

I would guess that your rifle would shoot better with the Krieger / Super Match modifications you mention, at least it should. But, rifle accuracy is a funny thing sometimes, and I have seen rifles that should be shooters that aren't, and some that shoot a lot better than they should.

Being a M1A fan, in your shoes, I would go for the Krieger barrel option, and consider a fiberglass stock if your rifle doesn't already have one. Its only money...

Larry

 

[tndrfttom]

My M1A Super Match was built around 1982 by former USAMTU armorer Glenn Nelson. At the time he recommended Douglas and Hart air gauged barrels with 1-in-10 twist for Service Rifle competition. The Douglas barrel shot both 155 and 168 grain Sierra Match bullets well so when it came time to re-barrel I went back to the 1-in-10 Douglas barrel and have been happy with them. However, I wouldn't try to steer you away from a Krieger barrel - they have an excellent reputation.

 

[vonn]

Sure would like to see a range report on what ever you decide on. Mine shoots as well as my friends super match and if memory serves I think it was labeled as an upgrade package but that was years ago. Good luck with your rifle,hope it is a shooter!

 

[Grayfox]

When I talked to the guy in Springfield's custom shop, the first question he asked was what kind of stock my rifle had. Its walnut. He said that's good because they can only bed the wooden stocks.

I bought this rifle used, but in excellent condition, last year at a very good price. I'm thinking the previous owner sold it cheap because it wasn't accurate enough. But even if I go with the most expensive package, I'll still have $600-700 less in it than a new Super Match is currently selling for.

 

[lrrifleman]

I have a Springfield M1A NM that I bought right after 9/11. I used it more for 1000 yard matches than across course. Mine has the standard parkerized chromemoly barrel. I filed the front sight to a nub, so I didn't have to have my cheek off of the stock. For across the course, I shot Sierra 168s over AA2520. For thousand yards, I shot Sierra 175s over Varget or IMR4895.

I have an M1MkII that has a parkerized Kreiger. I liked the way it shot, be in all honesty, I don't see how the Krieger shoots any differently than the Springfield barrel on my M1A.

Shooting iron sights as I was working my way up the classification ladder, I was quite content with 1.0-1.5 MOA accuracy. Figure that either way you go, you can expect no more than 3-4K round life before you lose match accuracy. Even if I were still physically able to shoot my service rifles across the course, I would be content with the medium to heavy Springfield barrel.

By the way, for whatever it may matter, I had earned my Master classification in Service Rifle across the course before I became disabled and it eventually expired.

 

[Grayfox]

That right there is the big question. Is the Douglas or Krieger barrel really worth the extra money?

 

[growr]

The answer is yes, they are. I have used 2 Douglas and 2 Kreigers and am now on an Obermeyer 5R barrel which is shooting even better than the best of the other two.

No longer shooting over the course, but with the current set up am sure that the rifle would get me into High Master if I was up to the job.

Randy

 

[Gene L]

I've got the basic M1A, walnut stock. Accuracy is battle rifle accurate for an old guy who doesn't compete. Probably 3-4 MOA, maybe more or less. The shortened rifles don't attract me at all. I don't see a need for them. They remind me of the so-called "Tanker Garands". Nor does mounting a scope on an M1A, which IMO are unsuited for a scope as they stand. Top-heavy.

I may have posted this before, maybe not on this board, but in the 1980s when I was a cop, the US Army Marksmanship Training Unit at Ft. Benning had a two-week course called a "Counter-sniper" course. It consisted of cops and GIs, and I attended it..all free, including lodging and meals.

Anyway, we fired the M25(?) rifles with a 3-9 Redfield ART scope. It was strictly a shooting technique and live fire course, targets were from 200-900 yards...not meters, guess it was an old range. Targets were steel silhouettes and we paired up and one shot, the other spotted.

The instructors told us that the standard for accuracy was 1.5 MOA. Some may have shot better, but none would shoot worse. I was surprised at this because I expected better from a rifle prepared by the experts at the Unit. But it makes sense, since we were taught center of mass, and 1.5 MOA is fine to hit an 18" wide silhouette at 900 yards. No head shots were taught.

We had to tape our shooting gloves to the comb of the stocks to get the height necessary to get position on the sights for long shooting periods on stocks not made for scopes. In the field where one or two shots would be fired, not necessary, but for long-sessions, unsupported would be fatiguing.

After the first week, hitting the targets was pretty easy. In the final, I missed only one target at the gimmie range of 350 because I didn't range the scope properly.

 

[jlrhiner]

I've been trying very hard over the last week to buy an M1a Standard w/ walnut and cannot find one locally. I found a National Match with walnut for $2600.00.

 

[lrrifleman]

... Anyway, we fired the M25(?) rifles with a 3-9 Redfield ART scope. It was strictly a shooting technique and live fire course, targets were from 200-900 yards...not meters, guess it was an old range. Targets were steel silhouettes and we paired up and one shot, the other spotted. ...

Gene, it sounds like you were using the M21. The lace-on cheek piece was supposed to compensate for the low stock comb when using the scope.

 

[Gene L]

That's it, but we didn't have lace-on cheekpieces. We were loaned leather shooting jackets, slings, and gloves and duct tape for taping the gloves to the stock. One day during the training some big brass came to observe and we had to remove the ad hoc cheekpieces so the big brass wouldn't see them.

I was a Recon Ptl leader in VN and one of my guys went to on-country sniper school in 1969 and carried a M 21, I guess. Looked the same, anyway.

The Army wasn't much into sniping during VN, at least not to my knowledge, or they would have had bolt guns. The Marines were and quite successful with dedicated bolt rifles and training.

 

[robvious]

I have both a NM and a NM with a Kreiger barrel... I voted for the Kreiger barrel option... I think the juice is worth the squeeze... if you need that little bit extra... match competition it may make the difference... just range day fun, not so much

 

[spdguns]

My M21. Gotta love it!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I think the juice is worth the squeeze...

When the rifle is at the "gunsmith's" the first time, that's the hardest time to spend the extra dollars! But the cost in time and money to send it in a second time means you wasted most of the first trip!

Pay me now, or pay me later. (later always costs more!)

 

[Grayfox]

Well this is getting interesting. I called Springfield again this morning and lots of things have changed. It seems the Krieger barrel is no longer available. The Douglas barrel is a heavyweight and would require changing the stock. Meaning more money.
Then they tell me that even with the Super Match package that It wouldn't be a true Super match rifle because those use a lugged receiver.
After talking it over with the rep, she felt that my best option would be the standard National Match upgrade. So that's what I'm gonna go with. Oh well, its just gonna be a paper puncher anyway and this is the least expensive option. I will still have a better rifle and its still a good bit cheaper than just going out and buying one.
We'll see what happens.

 

[.45mtngun]

I have the wood stock, carbon steel barrel M1A 41.0"loaded" version. I don't have a lot of rounds through it due to recent back surgeries. I did make up some hand loads using Hornady 168 grain A-Max bullets, WW brass, CCI match primers, and 41.0 grains of H-4895. I also opened the rear sight to .070 for my 72 year old eyes w/glasses. That load will hold an inch or less at 100 yds. You could say I'm pretty happy with the "Loaded" barrel accuracy with the way it shoots. I also got the wood stock in case I ever wanted to have it bedded. Good luck with your decision.
Jim

 

[.45mtngun]

Mine is the M1A Loaded, don't know where the "41.0" got into my first sentence in my previous reply.
Jim

 

[jlrhiner]

Just added number 2840 to the stable. I'll post some pics in a day or two.

 

[tndrfttom]

I owned this for about a week until a friend found out and needed it to fill a gap in his collection. I was more interested in 'match' rifles so he ended up with it.