M2.0 Really Challenging Glock?

[FloridaS&W]

I choose Glock because I think it's the best tool for very important task of self-defense no matter what it costs.

The operative words there are "I think". Which means it's your opinion. And you know what they say, opinions are like...well, you know. Everybody's got one.

See what I did there? LOL

 

[kbm6893]

Arik, Mister X,

I'm not saying Glock isn't good. Of course they are reliable guns and have advantages to traditional DA/SA guns. But I think money is the main factor, long term speaking.

Less expensive to purchase, less expensive to repair/maintain, less expensive on armorer's course, everyone makes accessories for it, etc.

Sure, as long as people are paying $2k+ for a Salient Glock then the price argument is invalid. But I'm talking about agencies that purchase guns in the hundreds, not the private citizen.

My county lets me carry whatever I want to qualify with. Saves them A LOT of money, incl. repair. If it's broken I can't just turn in in and get another one, I have to fix it out of my own pocket.

So yeah, Glock isn't superior to any other major manufacturer in that segment. But GG's big risk paid off and they sure did their homework from then on. My hat's off to him, he produced a gun in the 80's that Americans couldn't. I mean of course we can, we just came too late to the party.

Agreed. Money isn't the only factor, but it is a HUGE factor. Glock is a good gun, but it isn't riding in 60% of cop holsters because it's a better gun than others. It's cheaper AND good. Of course cops aren't going to be carrying Jennings autos with Hi-Point carbines in the trunk.

Glock hit the market at the right time and gave away guns for nearly free with trade in's that they sold to recoup some of the loss they had when they gave the guns to the police departments. Once they had their foothold, they were set. It was a gamble that paid off.

As for the cops not being able to hit a target with a DA pistol but magically being marksmen when a Glock is put in their hands, I'm calling BS on that one. A DA shot fired isn't gonna have such a big difference in accuracy over a striker fired. And let's not forget the increase in ND's, as happened with some agency in California, I think. Went from a Beretta 96 to an M&P and had a 40% increase in ND's. The term Glock Leg didn't come from nowhere. Ask Plaxico Burris.

 

[FloridaS&W]

Wow its the same people living on this thread. Just because you paid too much for a pistol that is manufactured to be so cheap that they won't even install steel sights. Not even on gen 5 ???? That's probably why there are glocks for sale everywhere. People can't unload them fast enough. I should know I did the same.
Truthfully some of you should head over to glocktalk.com where you marvel at the cheapness of the glock with others who feel the same. Sort of like AA.

It's almost like a cult. "Because cops use them" is the mantra. But the dirty secret is, cops are killing each other with these things and killing civilians as well, because Glock is too stuck in the mud to offer an external safety to their dinosaurs. They should make this a sticky:

WHY POLICE SHOULDN'T USE GLOCKS

Why the police shouldn't use Glocks - LA Times

 

[okiegtrider]

A lot of comedy in this thread. But we should stay on track, we are hating Glocks, not cops here.

 

[Mister X]

I own S&W's and I own Glocks. I spend time on this forum as well as on the Glock forum. Both sites have fanboys. I do find there is more civility and less moderation over there as long as I stay out of the Cop forum. I don't think I've ever been insulted for saying I own S&W's. Just the opposite in fact.

Do any of you take defensive shooting classes? I've been to several over the years and pretty much every instructor carried and recommended Glock. Are they brainwashed fanboys? Would you say that to them if you took their class?

 

[mcap1655]

My Chevy truck is better than your Ford truck and all Dodge trucks are junk.

Truth is that we are currently enjoying a plethora of quality, reliable and accurate polymer handguns that cost very little.

“Better” is 99.9% the user, training and techniques.


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[dabull1463]

I own S&W's and I own Glocks. I spend time on this forum as well as on the Glock forum. Both sites have fanboys. I do find there is more civility and less moderation over there as long as I stay out of the Cop forum. I don't think I've ever been insulted for saying I own S&W's. Just the opposite in fact.

Do any of you take defensive shooting classes? I've been to several over the years and pretty much every instructor carried and recommended Glock. Are they brainwashed fanboys? Would you say that to them if you took their class?

Agree!!! I have both. Glock 19 and just got the m&p 2.0 compact. Carry the PC shield (replaced the LC9S). The wife has the G23 in the night stand (12 years, gen 2, doesn't like anything else). Have had G43, G30s, M&P 40c over the years. To each it's own. It's all about what you need and how comfortable you feel with the handgun.
I like manual safety on my carry gun (15 year M9 habit). The Glocks are simple, point and shoot. That is why the wife likes it. The G19 is now in the kitchen safe so wifey has another go to familiar pistol. I've had the 2.0 compact for two weeks now and I'm impressed, a few more hundred rounds through it and if it continues to be flawless it will replace my SR9c for winter carry.

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[Rastoff]

...isn't the trigger pull on an M&P actually shorter and lighter than a Glock?

No. The stock Glock trigger is advertised at 5.5lbs. My own testing on several new Glocks bears that out pretty closely. The stock trigger on a full sized M&P is usually around 6lbs. I haven't personally tested as many of those, but the 10 or so I have tested also bore that out.

I think the answer here is that Glock and M&P trigger pull weights are so close that the difference is insignificant.

The stock travel on the original M&P was actually longer. However, that doesn't tell the tale. The first portion was just slack or take up. This was the part that everyone complained was gritty. The actual sear break was crisp on the M&P. Then it had way too much over-travel which caused a significant amount of accuracy frustration. I haven't tested the 2.0 model yet.

The Glock has just a shade more slack or take up, but without the gritty feel. It has a more spongy feel to the sear break. It has less over-travel, but, like the M&P, could use less of that.

If you're a person who uses the reset in training, the Glock has the most tactile and audible reset on the market. The M&P can be made better in this area, but I don't consider an audible/tactile reset to be a deal breaker.

As far as I'm concerned, the trigger comparison between the two is a wash.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I will admit I have bought a few guns that are popular. Those are the ones I most regret. The guns I have bought that go against the grain, that I like the guns are the ones I love the most. I guess a person has to decide if they are going to be one of the clicke, or an individual.

One of my favorite guns is not very popular, that is a Star Super. I also like my pair of Navies cartridge conversions. I have never seen an instructor carry one though. I did shoot one along side an instructor, and shocked him with a one ragged hole sixty round group, he stopped his smirks, and jokes after that.

 

[Rastoff]

I don't think I've ever been insulted for saying I own S&W's. Just the opposite in fact.

I'm sure I've insulted people unintentionally. However, I've never insulted anyone for the gun they carry. In this modern world though, I've seen a lot of people get insulted over things that were simply a different viewpoint.

Do any of you take defensive shooting classes? I've been to several over the years and pretty much every instructor carried and recommended Glock. Are they brainwashed fanboys? Would you say that to them if you took their class?

Yes, I've been to many. I've seen every kind of gun you can think of in the hands of instructors. Yes, even one with a SAA. No, I don't think they are all "brainwashed fanboys". I have seen some that are and will not be back to those classes.

Anyone who says that brand X is the ONLY proper self-defense tool is...well...a tool/fan boy. A good instructor is one who will teach you to use the gun you have as effectively as you can.

 

[Mister X]

Glock bashing is a pretty common occurrence on this forum. I find it strange that so many people on here have such a negative emotional response to a tool. If someone starts hurling derogatory comments towards those who choose to carry a Glock, I think it worth pointing out who would be included in their insult. I find it rather absurd that someone would seriously try and make the argument that the Glock is an inferior weapon considering it's widespread acceptance and proven history. It's childish behavior just like elementary kids arguing about what car manufacturer is best. I think a Glock is a superior weapon to an M&P just like I think S&W revolvers are superior weapons to Ruger wheelguns, but I'm not going to mock or insult someone who thinks differently from me.

I don't recall any instructor ever making comments that Glock is the only option, despite it being the first choice and first recommendation of the majority.

"I get many requests about gun selection from new shooters or first time gun buyers. For the new person or small frame individuals I recommend the Glock 19 as a good starting point, if they have none." - Clint Smith

And from Mas Ayoob... Massad Ayoob: Why the Glock 19 Is Great For Beginners, Pros

 

[Walkingwolf]

Some people prefer other guns than Glock, that is not hating. Get over it.

 

[Bowserb]

...

"I get many requests about gun selection from new shooters or first time gun buyers. For the new person or small frame individuals I recommend the Glock 19 as a good starting point, if they have none." - Clint Smith

And from Mas Ayoob... Massad Ayoob: Why the Glock 19 Is Great For Beginners, Pros

Just like Clint Smith and Massad Ayoob, I have also suggested to those who ask, that they at least take a look at the G19, as for a really long time, it sat in a class by itself, with its only drawbacks for me being: an uncomfortable grip/trigger/trigger guard setup that can get a little painful with an afternoon of shooting, and no available thumb safety. The latter can be remedied with a Cominolli safety, but that safety and installation can cost another $150-200. I still carry a G19 with Cominolli safety, but the 9c2 has my interest. I don't like short grip guns like all the subcompacts and the compacts with a short grip like the original 9c. That was why I bought my original G19.

I may end up buying a new 9c2, and then my advice may change to those who ask, to "at least look at the G19 and the 9c2, or if a thumb safety is important to you, then just the 9c2." Is that going to hurt Glock? I doubt it, but if enough potential G19 buyers go to the Smith & Wesson for the safety, then Glock might finally offer a manual thumb safety option.

 

[Rastoff]

Glock bashing is a pretty common occurrence on this forum.

Can you point to an instance of this? I've seen many posts that make claims that the M&P is superior. That's an opinion, not bashing. I expect that here. I would expect the opposite on a Glock forum. I've seen many more posts that state the Glock is a decent enough gun, but they prefer something else. That's not bashing either.

You sound upset, are you upset? People here like S&W over other brands, does that surprise you? It shouldn't surprise anyone. This is a S&W forum after all.

I myself have recommended the G19 when people aren't sure what to start with. I've also recommended the M&P 9mm. Shoot, I even bought a G19 for a friend because I thought it would make a good gun for him. He likes it.

 

[Arik]

Can you point to an instance of this? I've seen many posts that make claims that the M&P is superior. That's an opinion, not bashing. I expect that here. I would expect the opposite on a Glock forum. I've seen many more posts that state the Glock is a decent enough gun, but they prefer something else. That's not bashing either.

You sound upset, are you upset? People here like S&W over other brands, does that surprise you? It shouldn't surprise anyone. This is a S&W forum after all.

I myself have recommended the G19 when people aren't sure what to start with. I've also recommended the M&P 9mm. Shoot, I even bought a G19 for a friend because I thought it would make a good gun for him. He likes it.

You missed all the "Gee Lock", "Glop" and plastic sights threads?

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[Muss Muggins]

Can you point to an instance of this?

That stavey fella' is agin 'em. Just scroll back through this thread. He don't even like the box . . .

 

[FloridaS&W]

Glock bashing is a pretty common occurrence on this forum. I find it strange that so many people on here have such a negative emotional response to a tool. If someone starts hurling derogatory comments towards those who choose to carry a Glock, I think it worth pointing out who would be included in their insult. I find it rather absurd that someone would seriously try and make the argument that the Glock is an inferior weapon considering it's widespread acceptance and proven history. It's childish behavior just like elementary kids arguing about what car manufacturer is best. I think a Glock is a superior weapon to an M&P.....blah, blah, bah...

LOL

 

[vba]

Challenging Glock? Not at my nearby LGS's, they can't keep Glocks in stock and the new M&P's just sit there.

 

[Backon4]

I have several glocks, I had more but have slowly been getting rid of them. I don’t know that I will get rid of my 19 or 23 but I will tell you that after shooting them side by side with the M&P 2.0c they have not come out of the safe since. My 19 with trigger upgrades has never felt as good as the M&P did out of the box. There is nothing wrong per se with the 19 but when compared to the comfort and natural pointing of the 2.0 they are worlds apart. When doing instinctual shooting I was always shooting high. I try to practice as if I am in real world scenarios when acquiring perfect sight picture will not be an option. The M&P becomes an extension of my body where as the Glock is like holding a hammer and having to think about hitting the nail. The M&P is like just putting your finger on the nail. It’s much more natural and therefore was instantly more comfortable.

The only drawback for the M&P for me was the grip texture was too aggressive against bare skin when carrying IWB but a few minutes with a sharp knife and some sand paper and I was able to knock off enough sharp points to where it is comfortable.

I welcome anyone to try them side by side. Not just shooting paper but real world scenario drills. See for yourself. Just like sneakers choose the one that fits you best.


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[dabull1463]

I have several glocks, I had more but have slowly been getting rid of them. I don’t know that I will get rid of my 19 or 23 but I will tell you that after shooting them side by side with the M&P 2.0c they have not come out of the safe since. My 19 with trigger upgrades has never felt as good as the M&P did out of the box. There is nothing wrong per se with the 19 but when compared to the comfort and natural pointing of the 2.0 they are worlds apart. When doing instinctual shooting I was always shooting high. I try to practice as if I am in real world scenarios when acquiring perfect sight picture will not be an option. The M&P becomes an extension of my body where as the Glock is like holding a hammer and having to think about hitting the nail. The M&P is like just putting your finger on the nail. It’s much more natural and therefore was instantly more comfortable.

The only drawback for the M&P for me was the grip texture was too aggressive against bare skin when carrying IWB but a few minutes with a sharp knife and some sand paper and I was able to knock off enough sharp points to where it is comfortable.

I welcome anyone to try them side by side. Not just shooting paper but real world scenario drills. See for yourself. Just like sneakers choose the one that fits you best.


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Completely agree. Have both. Not letting the G19 go because wife has the G23 and have common ergos. Hers in the night stand my G19 in the kitchen safe. I solved the aggressive grip a different way to not modify the pistol with the talon grips. I CARRY THE M2.0.

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