Made the mistake of ordering a brand new Performance Center 627

[Walkingwolf]

This is sad to see that the OP got a poorly inspected gun. But I believe all companies have some guns slip by. Ruger is not immune. I got lucky with my 625 PC, it is absolutely a beauty, and IMO perfect. Except for those clown grips. Of course it could be I am just lucky, only had to send one two guns back. My wife's Glock 22, broken rail, and my CA Pitbull. Eventually ended up selling her Glock, she never liked it.

If my safe was not full I would probably buy another PC, Smith has a reputation for fixing their mistakes.

ETA Keep in mind that some costs for companies have more than doubled in the last few years. Either prices go up, or corners are cut to continue to make a profit, and answer to share holders.

 

[Jdavis]

From inch to metric multiply the dimension by 25.4. From metric to inch divide by 25.4. I only have a trade school diploma and learned this over 40+ years ago. It looks like your engineers and designers wasted a lot of money or spent to much time partying in college. This comes down to only one thing corporate greed.

Corporate greed is over simplifying the problem. Having run a business for in excess of 30 years, I have seen a decline in the work ethic of employees over the years. The younger generations seem to feel that the company owes them something whereas the older ones were grateful for the job. There was more pride in workmanship and loyalty then than now. Gradually the "you owe me" people began to outnumber the grateful and loyal workers resulting in less than satisfactory production at higher costs. It is a result of the difference in times that folks are raised in. The corporation must use the available resources (people) to operate and make a profit. That isn't greed nor is it as easy as it once was for corporations to meet the growing demands of workers and government regulations and survive.

 

[cmj8591]

One of the few advantages of getting old is that I have the benefit of looking back at things with the experience of life. What we have here is nothing new. I remember Bangor Punta and everyone complaining how Smith will never survive producing such ****. Then came along Lear Seigler and suddenly everyone lamented the loss of the "great" Bangor guns. I won't even begin to get into the things that were said about the junk produced by the Thompson group. Yet, some of the previous posters will only buy Smiths that were produced during these times and tell us about how much better they are than the new guns. The point is that the problems we are seeing are just part of mass production process. They occur with mass produced $1000 handguns and $100000 sedans. It dosen't matter. In the old days, guns, like everything else, were produced one at a time. One person built one gun then attached their name or number to the box. Then automation showed up. Now the machinist who used to machine one frame at a time is operating 8 CNC machines each of which is cutting 6 frames at once. Quality control went from an old guy at the end of the line checking the gun to a laser beam making sure that everything is within a set of specifications. The quality control problems we have here are not unique to Smith & Wesson. Go on any forum about any mass produced object and they are having the same conversations we are. The up side is that we can buy one of these technological marvels for just $1000. If we went back to hand fitting everything and building them one at a time, it is unlikely that most of us could afford to own one gun. Never mind a safe full of them. I think what we have to do when the product dosen't live up to our expectations is: Take a deep breath, think about what your real expectations are and make the factory live up to them.

 

[JHB51]

Corporate greed is over simplifying the problem. Having run a business for in excess of 30 years, I have seen a decline in the work ethic of employees over the years. The younger generations seem to feel that the company owes them something whereas the older ones were grateful for the job. There was more pride in workmanship and loyalty then than now. Gradually the "you owe me" people began to outnumber the grateful and loyal workers resulting in less than satisfactory production at higher costs. It is a result of the difference in times that folks are raised in. The corporation must use the available resources (people) to operate and make a profit. That isn't greed nor is it as easy as it once was for corporations to meet the growing demands of workers and government regulations and survive.

Lets look at the other side of the coin. Why all the temp companies popping up. Lousy work ethic on one side and the other side cheap disposable help. Lets face it we have to many people that think they deserve a days pay for just showing up and the company thinks you should be thank full you have a job no matter how few crumbs they throw at you. Last but not least the company sets the production and quality standards. The first thing a company has to do is set a standard that the customer likes. Good help will give you what you demand if you take care of them but you have to weed out the bad help first. This is a two sided problem that can be solved it takes team work with both sides giving not just one.

 

[andyo5]

There was an Australian member a few months ago complaining of similar (even worse) issues that he had with a Perf Center Model 41. The gun was actually unshootable. I can't understand how they can call these Performance Center products and send them out like that.
It seems to me that you should call customer service and inform them that you want them to issue a UPS call tag so you can ship it back free. And they should send you a NEW gun, not just rework the one that you have now. I would not bother to shoot it because there would be no point. If it shoots well, you would still want it replaced due to the other issues.

 

[TTSH]

Pitiful...

Ya know, people are often down on the later Bangor Punta years (as well as the 3 Lear Siegler years), but none of my late Bangor Punta era revolvers were or are anywhere near as bad as this.

Pretty damn pitiful.

 

[ladder13]

Ruger is not what they once were either

Does that barrel say "read instructions on how to install front sight" ?

 

[patrickd]

This is sad to see that the OP got a poorly inspected gun. But I believe all companies have some guns slip by. Ruger is not immune. I got lucky with my 625 PC, it is absolutely a beauty, and IMO perfect. Except for those clown grips. Of course it could be I am just lucky, only had to send one two guns back. My wife's Glock 22, broken rail, and my CA Pitbull. Eventually ended up selling her Glock, she never liked it.

If my safe was not full I would probably buy another PC, Smith has a reputation for fixing their mistakes.



ETA Keep in mind that some costs for companies have more than doubled in the last few years. Either prices go up, or corners are cut to continue to make a profit, and answer to share holders.

If I were building that gun I'd notice right off the grips didn't fit. I'd also notice right off the sight was cockeyed. That guy building that gun should be fired for ever letting it get out of his work station. Then the QC guy needs to be let go because he obviously never inspected it... A blind man would have noticed that stuff. What it looks like is S&W doesn't bother to inspect all their guns they just ship em out. As for prices going up? They already have... I'd expect a near perfect gun if I was laying out $1K for a revolver. Especially from the custom shop..

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

What I have found is many times when a gun is "special ordered" or bought online, the incidence of poor quality rises dramatically. Seems many times guns are returned to the wholesaler for obvious reasons and then the gun is shipped back out again to the next unsuspecting customer. Seems that because many folks accept a firearm without really looking at it close, it's easier to just keep sending it out until someone accepts it as opposed to sending it back to the mothership right away.

Truth be told, S&W will make it right. Since the beginning of time there have been those products we figured were made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. The true meaning of a quality company is the customer service one receives and a satisfying resolution when it is needed. As for the crown, I'd shoot it before making judgement. As for the rear sight being adjusted to compensate for the canted front.... someone else may have shot it and tried to adjust it. It certainly wasn't adjusted at the factory. They shoot the gun twice to make sure it fires, not for accuracy. Generally why you find only two dirty chambers when buying a new Smith.

Rear sight was not adjusted. Front sight was canted and then installed off center to make up for being canted.

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

It would have been absolutely fantastic if you could have waited until the problems were fixed before you posted.

I've lost count how many times a poster on X forum whined how his new X is terrible. After weeks of updates on how X hasn't been made properly since 1962, he posts that his X is on the way back from the factory. He then says he will tell us all about how it went....tomorrow.

Around about this time the guy gets amnesia and forgets to tell the 100s following the thread how it went.

Dont you worry I'm an Internet ***** and well versed on forum posting. I currently have this exact thread on no less than 3 forums plus Facebook and will update when fixed

 

[Harkrader]

Yikes! I have a 627 PC "Bloodwork" and is has superb fit and finish, and shoots excellently.
Methinks your should go back with a complaint.

 

[sniper007]

I certainly wouldn't expect a PC gun to look like that.

Well, called, explained, and have a shipping label.

Guy on the phone was completely nonchalant about it. "okay what did you say was wrong?"

Not so much as a "sorry about that" or an "oh that doesn't sound good" or any kind of empathy or anything, lol, just "okay, okay okay, address? okay, the label is being sent......okay bye" .....

Saying "sorry" or "that doesn't sound good" can be viewed by the courts as an admission of guilt, although they could acknowledge your distressed feelings. (Most often what I hear when someone screws up is: "sorry about that" which sounds more like "sorry, not sorry" to me.) It's all about liability and cost control and it looks like money isn't spent training people in the manufacturing process, nor the customer service area.

As to the gun in question, I would be unhappy even if it were not a Performance Center gun. Being a Performance Center gun actually makes it an insult. The name "Performance Center" and the prices charged would seem to indicate a higher level of quality, but apparently not to S&W.

The only S&W gun I've bought new was a M&P 40c (plastic fantastic). Put about 150 rounds through it and discovered while cleaning it that the internal frame was broken in two. Sent it to S&W and they replaced the frame. The paperwork I got when it was returned seemed to describe the repair of a totally different gun. SMH.

The only flaw in my four S&W Pinned and Recessed revolvers is that the S&W cartouche on my 19-2 looks like it was poorly stamped before the gun was blued. I didn't buy it new, it originally belonged to a LEO. I doubt he cared much. Neither do I, but if I was looking at a new gun with an imprint like that, I would expect a very serious discount.

Sorry you had the lousy experience.

 

[sniper007]

Dont you worry I'm an Internet ***** and well versed on forum posting. I currently have this exact thread on no less than 3 forums plus Facebook and will update when fixed

illegitimis non carborundum

 

[patrickd]

It would have been absolutely fantastic if you could have waited until the problems were fixed before you posted.

I've lost count how many times a poster on X forum whined how his new X is terrible. After weeks of updates on how X hasn't been made properly since 1962, he posts that his X is on the way back from the factory. He then says he will tell us all about how it went....tomorrow.

Around about this time the guy gets amnesia and forgets to tell the 100s following the thread how it went.

The point is NO purchaser of a new performance center firearm should have to wait for ANYTHING. As previously mentioned, Performance Center pistols and revolvers are supposed to be custom fitted special made firearms... No waiting at all for ANY fixes... I would've posted those pictures too. S&W needs this type of wake up call from consumers if anyone ever expects anything to improve with the quality. I say after shelling out a grand for a new gun from S&W he has a right to "whine" as you call it.

 

[mazer]

I don't know, I've had to send guns back before...I am certainly disappointed when I have to do that! Especially when it's brand new! But, I am MORE disappointed when I send a gun back and the company doesn't take care of the problem in the end! Took me sending my Ruger Alaskan back 3 times for them to finally fix the problem, but they did in the end. That was 2 years ago, still have the revolver and still wear it CCW from time to time when not carrying my S&W BAckpacier IV (which also needed a trip back to S&W to fix).
Yes it's annoying, but, in the end I have something I will enjoy for years to come! Now, if you want to talk about a manufacturing actually "destroying" your favorite gun??? Read up on what Remington/Freedom Arms did to my Marlins! Now THAT is a crime!
Oh, and I did purchase a new PC XVR in 460S&W and it is gorgeous! But, I can't see the crown due to the muzzle brake!!! So.....

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

So smith now has it. When is an appropriate time to touch base with them on what the plan is? Or do I just sit quietly and wait. I don't like being annoying but I know the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[L-2]

What I like to do in these situations is to go buy another gun. Meanwhile, let S&W do whatever they need to do and not rush anything as I'd like them to be very careful to correct their errors.

I suppose it'd be ok to call today just to get a contact name and get a feel for how many of these went out the door and why it happened. I suspect the tech support personnel are aware of your type of issues on that model by now.

My last/latest S&W warranty issue involved an internal pin breaking on a 442, resulting in a replacement of the firearm.

 

[regalsc]

I have sent guns back to S&W 4 times. Every time the gun was back in under 2 weeks. My experience to maybe give you some sort of timeline.

 

[Muss Muggins]

So smith now has it. When is an appropriate time to touch base with them on what the plan is? Or do I just sit quietly and wait. I don't like being annoying but I know the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Last time I sent a gun back, I waited a week after Smith verified they had the gun, and then called, using the reference number they provided. The SN can also be used . . .

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

Great thanks all. I'll give it a bit and then touch base. Sounds like it shouldn't be too long

 

[ScottN]

I had to send a performance center handgun back last year. It was a semi-auto. It took 3 weeks from the day I mailed it to the day I received it back.

 

[NJM15]

We are not the quality control dept !

Thats how I feel right now. My dream revolver purchase was a mistake.

I scanned it at the gun shop when it arrived, checked for a canted barrel, looked everything over, and took possession. Got home, and then i noticed the following on my brand new, un touched 627 Performance Center, which is about a $1000 revolver.

1. Front sight canted. Barrel doesnt seem canted, just the sight, note that barrel and sight are misaligned, not barrel and frame. its CLEARLY adjusted to the left (from the factory) to make up for the rightward lean.


2. Grips fit like poo. This is the gap along the front of the nice fancy hand fit hand assembled handgun.


if i loosen the screw and squeeze the front together, heres the back.


they are nowhere even CLOSE to fitting the frame in the back.


3. the hammer is rough as hell, the edges are SHARP and if i cocked it in a hurry i guarantee the burr on the back would draw blood. looks like it was chromed and then never touched up, lots of "extra" material along the sides and rear, flashing is what i want to call it but not sure if thats the right term. its along both sides of the hammer.


4. minor imperfections in frame. these are finished over, so i assume they are from forging or casting or however the gun is made. not sure if its an issue, but i'd need to be reassured it doesnt represent any structural issues. note the L shaped imperfection and forward of that it looks like the frame was improperly milled.


5. here's the mother of them all. THE CROWN. look at that. Looks to me like the rifling was cut after the "counter bored" crown was forged or milled or cut or what. The lands in the rifling extend out past the crown, it was never touched up, theres a ridge around the whole crown, its rough and sharp.


Admittedly this was all my fault because i accepted the gun from my dealer, but seriously?!! what the hell! Am i being too picky here, am I being crazy? Are these all acceptable from a performance center $1000 hand gun? Neither my 66 no dash nor my 3" 65 have anything even close to this amount of rough finishing.

I guess they really dont make them like they used to. I'm super upset, i'm soured on what should be my dream revolver. I have an email int to smith but have a mind to call them in the AM. I'm going to have to send my brand new unfired $1000 performance center gun back to the factory to have it finished how it should have been from day one....

I have been lucky I guess on my 6 Smiths, a few little problems that were easily corrected. You would think S&W would more closely inspect every weapon before it is shipped including pre firing at least 10 rounds. I have a Ruger 100 XP and just looking at the quality shows me that Smith is not what they used to be. Fit and finish is better , clearances , etc. not saying which one is better I like both
Good luck on what ever course you take

 

[Rolling]

It's a damn shame. That's what it is.

 

[iPac]

Yes it's bad...

Reputable online dealers tell you inspect closely "before" accepting the gun.

I rip it apart before I sign for it. I let the paper the LGS is shoving at me sit on the counter.

If you are to embarrassed to properly inspect your investment that is on you. Sorry they told you to inspect.

I call this "excitement blindness".

It happens when somebody gets a new gun. They are usually super excited to get it and finally own it. However, that usually ends with finding a bunch of flaws weeks later when it's too late to do anything about it.

Good thing S&W has the lifetime warranty, but that is simply because of the numbers game mentioned. It is cheaper to produce this quality and only correct the small % that gets sent back.

This applies to any gun. Don't let excitement blindness get you. Do a full on inspection before signing. I got a canted barrel pawned off on me while still a novice due to excitement blindness, and that was the first and last time. Since then I have studied and learned a lot about revolvers, even smithing them. I don't purchase a gun anymore without a gunsmith assessment of it.

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

Well It got to them on Monday and today I called just to ask what the procedure was. Guy told me I just wait and it should be 4 weeks door to door and they will explain what they did to get it back to factory condition.

Again...oh so super helpful

 

[haywood]

Well It got to them on Monday and today I called just to ask what the procedure was. Guy told me 4 weeks door to door and they will explain what they did to get it back to factory condition.

Again...oh so super helpful

I hope they take care of you. Good luck.

 

[Mr.Harry]

I dunno. It makes me wary reading all these threads. But it has not been my experience. Not that I am deeply experienced in muting smith and Wesson revolvers. I know only these few things - all of the biggest/(best?) firearm manufacturers are having quality control problems. Autos to revolvers. Rifle to pistol.
Some have better return and service policies/warranties than others.
Buying guns on-line is not the way to go to 'grab-a-gun' and thence 'save-a-buck'. I buy (have bought) nearly ALL my various firearms from a truly BIG, incredibly well-stocked. Independent, awesome LGS in Kittery ME. I'm quite sure many if. It every state has a store like this. I believe that flawed guns never even hit their damned display cases, and when I say "display cases" I mean it - a smith revo one, next to a ruger revo one, next to something else. I'm just talking the NEW revolvers. Each stocked with up to or more than 60 different models. I believe THEY do the qc and bounce anything suspect back before they do so much as put it on their shelf for eyeballing. Is it included in the price of admission? Absolutely. The guns don't go at 'bargain' prices. But guess what? They don't have damaged goods on the shelf. That's worth the extra fifty or even hundo to me.
Maybe people need to reconsider their choice of purveyor over brand? Just an idea.

 

[44Powers]

Well It got to them on Monday and today I called just to ask what the procedure was. Guy told me I just wait and it should be 4 weeks door to door and they will explain what they did to get it back to factory condition.

Again...oh so super helpful

Man, I feel for ya... I had a 2.5" 627 PC a few years ago that was out of time out of the box... it had to go back twice before it was completely right... 7 weeks later I had such a bad taste in my mouth I ended up selling it...and using the funds to fund a no lock 5" one that appeared locally a week later...hope things work out for ya man...

 

[exfedagent]

You are right to be upset. About 1999 or 2000 I got a Performance Center blue K frame .357 revolver that I bought online from Lew Horton (I think). It was about $1000. It came without a FIRING PIN. I returned it to the factory and they put one in. (Duh!) The quality of workmanship was good but it didn't group as well as a CS-1 that I had to sell in 1998. I ended up selling the PC gun. I was more disappointed in how it grouped (or didn't group) than it escaping the factory without a FIRING PIN....Good luck!

 

[cal50]

Looks like Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder are working QC.....

You would assume a PC gun would be a cut above production level fit and finish and the 627 you displayed should fail a standard QC inspection.

Thankfully my 627 PC was damn near perfect out of the box many years back.

Its amazing that all of the old 4 or 5 screw S&W revolvers and even most others were well made and fitted up to the 1980's then manufacturing changed and was hit and miss. With modern technology and CNC & MIM processes it eliminated a lot of hand fitting and sadly is appears S&W has forgotten how to build a top notch revolver at times.