Magpul PSD MBUS Sights
- Thread starter CPTBeaker
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crazyelece
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Jus wondering if any of you guys that have any of these magpul knockoffs how they compare to the real deal? The stocks too.
OP
CPTBeaker
Member
They are not "knockoffs." They are PTS sights, a division of Magpul.
++ MAGPUL PTS++
A co-worker with a MOE version of the 15-22 looked at my PTS sights and said they looked exactly the same. The quality of mine are excellent. If they are counterfeit PTS MBUS sights, they did a damn good job.
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crazyelece
Member
So is there a difference in the polymer or are these just cosmetic seconds? Never heard of the pts line until now so just wondering. Can they take the same abuse as MOE stuff? I remember my paintball days and I was much rougher on those then I ever am on my rifles!
antifederalist22
Member
Google Magpul PTS--Professional Training and Simulation division (aka Airsoft). Although when the MBUS came online it looks like they discontinued the PTS sights since there used to be a budget sight set and now the PTS site lists the MBUS. You can find the old PTS sights on eBay in orange/white boxes vice the MBUS orange/brown cardboard packaging. If you go the PTS route your are ordering the "made in china" stuff.
++ MAGPUL PTS++
http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGPUL-PTS-MBUS...aultDomain_0&hash=item230ec71e16#ht_572wt_922
++ MAGPUL PTS++
http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGPUL-PTS-MBUS...aultDomain_0&hash=item230ec71e16#ht_572wt_922
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OP
CPTBeaker
Member
- difference in the polymer?...who knows. There black plastic. Looks like the tough stuff. The PTS sights probably have BPA in the plastic and will give you cancer if you suck on them, the MBUS are probably ok to suck on.
- cosmetic seconds?...My sights look perfect. Nothing that would indicate they are seconds or rejects off the main production line. There are no excessive mold seams, surface irregularities, etc...
- Same abuse as a standard MBUS sight? I don't think I would put an MBUS sight through too much abuse. Again, they are only plastic and meant to be backups, to spend most of their time locked in the down position. If you want something to take abuse, get steel sights like YHMs or Troys.
So, what's the real difference. About $75 I figure. That's about it.
- MBUS = Made in USA w/union workers ~$15+/hr
- PTS = Made in China by kids ~3 cents/hr
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crazyelece
Member
As far as the abuse I was more thinking of the stocks and grips. I went ahead and ordered a pair of sights and an AFG so I guess I'll find out one way or another.
You guys do know that Magpul PTS products are for airsoft, right?
Magpul | Unfair Advantage
"Magpul PTS
Magpul Professional Training & Simulation (PTS) was established in 2007 to meet worldwide demand for airsoft-compatible Magpul accessories. Based in Hong Kong, Magpul PTS provides high quality airsoft products suitable for both non-lethal training applications and civilian airsoft sporting use. By maintaining the same basic form and function as Magpul weapon components, PTS equipment allows users to safely practice drills and perform scenarios without the use of live weapons or ammunition.
www.magpul-pts.com"
Thats the reason they are cheap, they are made for airsoft and only fit the basic form and function, they are basically cosmetic, however, they are not not made for use with real weapons with real ammunition. Thats the real difference. So while not specifically counterfits, they are comparable to cheap knock off's in many ways in terms of use on real weapons as they just were not made for use on real weapons with real ammunition.
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ChattanoogaPhil
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Very true... but my guess is that airsoft equipment probably sees a ton more handling abuse than most 15-22s. Ever see those guys in airsoft competitions.... Yikes!
ahhh, you quoted before I got the edit done to be more in line with what I was trying to say, but yeah, intially I did say what you quoted. Just changed it to be more descriptive of what I was trying to say.
Probably, but popularity of cheapness does not quality or reliability for real weapons make no matter how many air-soft competitions. You don't know how many times those airsoft people replaced their sights either, all you ever see on the internet for airsoft is "These are great and I use them" or similar, you never see "Yeah, they are cheap and I use them, i'm on my 30th set now." or similar really.
There are competitions for potatoe launching weapons also, but that doesn't mean the components used there were intended to be used on modern military artillary.
Not knocking airsoft at all, but although similar in "form and function" (like the PTS sights) airsoft weapons are not real gun-powder ammunition based weapons either. The comparison, although similar in form and function only, is not a true comparison.
Probably, but popularity of cheapness does not quality or reliability for real weapons make no matter how many air-soft competitions. You don't know how many times those airsoft people replaced their sights either, all you ever see on the internet for airsoft is "These are great and I use them" or similar, you never see "Yeah, they are cheap and I use them, i'm on my 30th set now." or similar really.
There are competitions for potatoe launching weapons also, but that doesn't mean the components used there were intended to be used on modern military artillary.
Not knocking airsoft at all, but although similar in "form and function" (like the PTS sights) airsoft weapons are not real gun-powder ammunition based weapons either. The comparison, although similar in form and function only, is not a true comparison.
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OP
CPTBeaker
Member
I know what they are made for, but that does not mean they won't work on a .22
I'm never going to do anything more than shoot holes in targets, knock off an occasional crow or squirrel, or make the community a bit safer by shooting a zombie or two in the head with my 15-22.
I would buy your argument if we were not comparing two sets of plastic sights. If the PTS and MBUS sights are identical to the naked eye. Tell me what makes the MBUS acceptable for use on a real weapon and the PTS set not?
Is the plastic cheaper, less durable on the PTS sights? Looks like the same plastic to me.
Are the metal bolts any different in the PTS sight? Might be, but they tighten up just fine, have held and have not stripped out, and I bet the plastic the sight is made of will fail before the bolt in either version.
Are the PTS sights looser, do they wobble more, do the not fit tightly to the weapon, are they not square wrt the rail?...Not the set I have.
Does the PTS sight adjust for windage? Are there positive clicks? Does it stay in place under the hard
recoil of my .22?...My set does.Does the front sight adjust for elevation and does the front post stay in place?...Mine does. Is it vertical?...mine is. Does it accept other posts?...My set does.
I'm having a hard time understanding why these PTS sights are not acceptable for a .22? I seem to be able to adequately adjust my front and rear PTS sights on my 15-22 and I can hit where I'm aiming. They have held true for over 1000 rounds so.....???
Their original purpose is irrelevant if they work. And mine work for how I'm using my 15-22. If I were going to select a sight for combat, it sure wouldn't be a plastic MBUS sight. I'd select a Troy or YHM before trusting either a PTS or MBUS.
Have you seen a set of these sights in person? They don't look like they were made for a Super Soaker 2000.
There's no difference in the comparison between these sights and all of the bargain red dot sights everyone raves about here like the Primary Arms stuff, NC Star, etc. All of those optics seem to work adequately for a fraction of the cost of an Eotech, Aimpoint, etc..
Everyone is free to spend an extra $75 on a 'real' pair of MBUS sights if they want to, but I can't conceivably see how they are any different, other than their intended market. If the MBUS sights were made of a special unbreakable plastic, special hardened bolts, Wolff springs, and endorsed as better by Justin Beiber, I might agree. The way I see it, I can replace these sights twice for the price of a real set. I'll likely be dead
before I have to replace my current sights even once, and my corpse will be $50 richer.
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Oh, i'm not saying they may not work on a .22. They probably will. Just pointing out that if the aim is to make the weapon as good as possible then why is "because they are cheap" the only reason for justifying them?
Yes, the original purpose is relevant. If it wasn't then why would you choose a Troy or other sight for a combat weapon? Why not stick any old thing on there just because its cheap?
I'm not arguing with you. The Magpul MBUS sights can be used on real weapons, up to a point, for example I would not use them on a combat or tactical weappon, but I would use them on a .22 recreational weapon. PTS on the other hand, identical to the naked eye, and using that as a reason for choice, is a very depective practice. Even the manufacturer acknowledges there are differences, even though they may be similar to the naked eye, by specifically telling people that their PTS "division" produces things for airsoft. Then on the PTS site you do not see anything but airsoft mentioned. Its a pretty safe bet that the sights are intended for airsoft only.
Weapon sights are for a purpose, with specific uses for different types and categories of sights. If airsoft stuff was intended to be used on true weapons then you would see it sold on quality true weapons, but ya don't see that much now do you? Wonder why that is? Its because the airsoft stuff wasn't intended for real weapons. Even Magpul makes it clearly understood that the PTS sights are for airsoft. They could probably make more money by advertising the sights as something other then for airsoft, but instead they developed a sight that was intended for real weapons, and there is clearly a difference between them in the manufacturers mind also, that should be a big clue. True, on a combat weapon or tactical weapon I would not choose Magpul either, but even on a weapon just intended for "recreational use" I would want the platform to be as reliable as possible while also being aware of budget and would still not use "cheapness" of a product not-intended for the platform as justification for purchasing one of the most critical parts of the weapon.
Number of rounds someone has used with a "budget" airsoft item is what has no relevance. You always see this "Oh, I have fired a thousand rounds and not had a problem and its always held zero". Might be true, but does not mean it was made for the platform category. I guess its just the way i think, it just doesn't make sense to me and I guess I just never understood why someone intends to improve their weapon after spending hundreds of dollars on it and then would not spend $40.00 or so more on one of the most critical parts of the weapon, the sighting system, and then uses cheapness as the primary justification and basis for choosing that sighting system and completly ignoring the intended use of the sighting system.
I know people want to do budget, there is nothing wrong with that, but going completly out of the range of whats suitable for the platform, no matter how many rounds someone says they put down range with the airsoft platform intended sights, is going a bit too far for budget justification when after spending hundreds on the weapon just $40.00'ish more would get you something intended for the platform, especially when the manufacturer does not even endorse the sights for real weapons. Thats just the way I think. I tend to stay with the item area intended for the platform. I'm not saying you have to run out and spend another few hundred bucks for sights, but that doesn't mean you have to use something not intended for the platform either.
No offense intended, it just makes more sense to me to stay within the areas of those things intended for the platform.
Yes, the original purpose is relevant. If it wasn't then why would you choose a Troy or other sight for a combat weapon? Why not stick any old thing on there just because its cheap?
I'm not arguing with you. The Magpul MBUS sights can be used on real weapons, up to a point, for example I would not use them on a combat or tactical weappon, but I would use them on a .22 recreational weapon. PTS on the other hand, identical to the naked eye, and using that as a reason for choice, is a very depective practice. Even the manufacturer acknowledges there are differences, even though they may be similar to the naked eye, by specifically telling people that their PTS "division" produces things for airsoft. Then on the PTS site you do not see anything but airsoft mentioned. Its a pretty safe bet that the sights are intended for airsoft only.
Weapon sights are for a purpose, with specific uses for different types and categories of sights. If airsoft stuff was intended to be used on true weapons then you would see it sold on quality true weapons, but ya don't see that much now do you? Wonder why that is? Its because the airsoft stuff wasn't intended for real weapons. Even Magpul makes it clearly understood that the PTS sights are for airsoft. They could probably make more money by advertising the sights as something other then for airsoft, but instead they developed a sight that was intended for real weapons, and there is clearly a difference between them in the manufacturers mind also, that should be a big clue. True, on a combat weapon or tactical weapon I would not choose Magpul either, but even on a weapon just intended for "recreational use" I would want the platform to be as reliable as possible while also being aware of budget and would still not use "cheapness" of a product not-intended for the platform as justification for purchasing one of the most critical parts of the weapon.
Number of rounds someone has used with a "budget" airsoft item is what has no relevance. You always see this "Oh, I have fired a thousand rounds and not had a problem and its always held zero". Might be true, but does not mean it was made for the platform category. I guess its just the way i think, it just doesn't make sense to me and I guess I just never understood why someone intends to improve their weapon after spending hundreds of dollars on it and then would not spend $40.00 or so more on one of the most critical parts of the weapon, the sighting system, and then uses cheapness as the primary justification and basis for choosing that sighting system and completly ignoring the intended use of the sighting system.
I know people want to do budget, there is nothing wrong with that, but going completly out of the range of whats suitable for the platform, no matter how many rounds someone says they put down range with the airsoft platform intended sights, is going a bit too far for budget justification when after spending hundreds on the weapon just $40.00'ish more would get you something intended for the platform, especially when the manufacturer does not even endorse the sights for real weapons. Thats just the way I think. I tend to stay with the item area intended for the platform. I'm not saying you have to run out and spend another few hundred bucks for sights, but that doesn't mean you have to use something not intended for the platform either.
No offense intended, it just makes more sense to me to stay within the areas of those things intended for the platform.
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OP
CPTBeaker
Member
Foxtrot, I don't disagree with most of what you've said.
However, I've seen other items made for Airsoft rifles and there are defiantly quality differences from real firearm parts. I wouldn't consider putting those parts on a real weapon even for cosmetic reasons because I don't feel they would hold up from the abuse of just being taken out of and put into a guncase.
The quality of these PTS sights don't fit into the standard Airsoft quality category.
Ref my previous post, tell me, other than the original intent of the PTS sights, what the physical difference is between the two sights? Not what the intended purpose was, but the physical difference. If nobody can tell any of us that something is physically different or inferior about them, in my opinion, they are entirely acceptable to use and directly comparable to the MBUS version.
I have no false impression that these were intended for anything other than Airsoft use, that's not part of my argument. I'm willing to bet Magpul does not make these any more because people have realized that there is no physical difference between the PTS and the MBUS, other than country of origin and cost to produce. It's probably fair to say that Magpul has lost MBUS customers to their PTS sights, thats why they don't make/sell them any more.
If something works, what does it matter what it was made for? Besides, don't forget, for some people, $40 is a lot of money, and we're not talking about an expensive weapon here. Were talking about a $350 rifle. Putting a $100 set of sights on it would be harder to justify in my opinion. Different story however if we start to talk about the rifle I intend to use in combat or the rifle you intend to use to protect and serve.
However, I've seen other items made for Airsoft rifles and there are defiantly quality differences from real firearm parts. I wouldn't consider putting those parts on a real weapon even for cosmetic reasons because I don't feel they would hold up from the abuse of just being taken out of and put into a guncase.
The quality of these PTS sights don't fit into the standard Airsoft quality category.
Ref my previous post, tell me, other than the original intent of the PTS sights, what the physical difference is between the two sights? Not what the intended purpose was, but the physical difference. If nobody can tell any of us that something is physically different or inferior about them, in my opinion, they are entirely acceptable to use and directly comparable to the MBUS version.
I have no false impression that these were intended for anything other than Airsoft use, that's not part of my argument. I'm willing to bet Magpul does not make these any more because people have realized that there is no physical difference between the PTS and the MBUS, other than country of origin and cost to produce. It's probably fair to say that Magpul has lost MBUS customers to their PTS sights, thats why they don't make/sell them any more.
If something works, what does it matter what it was made for? Besides, don't forget, for some people, $40 is a lot of money, and we're not talking about an expensive weapon here. Were talking about a $350 rifle. Putting a $100 set of sights on it would be harder to justify in my opinion. Different story however if we start to talk about the rifle I intend to use in combat or the rifle you intend to use to protect and serve.
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OP
CPTBeaker
Member
The part that really sucks about a forum discussion is that you can't argue over a couple of cold beers and popcorn.
Once again, i'm not arguing with you. Just explaining my view point on the matter.
I'm not going to get into the "Oh, tell me the physical differences" stuff." Are there physical differences? Well, that depends if you mean cosmetically, structurally, material integrity? Cosmetically they may look the same, but structurally in terms of material hardness-stability-integrity, they may not be. So its a moot point to use the "show me the differences" argument as a justification base.
I'm not going to get into the "Oh, tell me the physical differences" stuff." Are there physical differences? Well, that depends if you mean cosmetically, structurally, material integrity? Cosmetically they may look the same, but structurally in terms of material hardness-stability-integrity, they may not be. So its a moot point to use the "show me the differences" argument as a justification base.
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re:
I have the PTS and the regular Magpul sights. The difference is the quality of plastic they use on the PTS airsoft version, just cheaper and the springs aren't as strong. Set screw on the PTS ( which you basically have to discard ). And the FRONT POST SIGHT IS SHORTER on the PTS. And they don't seem to lock into place as good as the real MBUS sights. All in all for what they are used for, putting on a 22, they are great !
I have the PTS and the regular Magpul sights. The difference is the quality of plastic they use on the PTS airsoft version, just cheaper and the springs aren't as strong. Set screw on the PTS ( which you basically have to discard ). And the FRONT POST SIGHT IS SHORTER on the PTS. And they don't seem to lock into place as good as the real MBUS sights. All in all for what they are used for, putting on a 22, they are great !
So may I ask if the front post has to be brought up higher on the PTS then the standard magpuls?
got mine in this week from china. they are a perfect example of "you get what you pay for"
$20 bucks...no big deal. they look (from a distance) to be the real deal. but there are big differences.
as posted above; material is lower grade, and not clean. i found some debris in the underside of the front sight.
quality...i would give it a 6.5 out of 10
both sets have slop in them, especially the rear sight. the thumb screw for windage adjustment is super loose. and the rectical flip up will not stay together with the larger ring.
but like i said $20...no big deal. i shot with them today and i held a 2.5" to 3" group at 25 yrds standing. so they work, but then again they are not real dependable.
if you want to get them to see if it is something you are wanting before you drop the real dough on the ligit magpul sights i would say do it.
as for me they are off the rifle, i will take them apart, blueprint them, and make a very tight set from aluminum.
$20 bucks...no big deal. they look (from a distance) to be the real deal. but there are big differences.
as posted above; material is lower grade, and not clean. i found some debris in the underside of the front sight.
quality...i would give it a 6.5 out of 10
both sets have slop in them, especially the rear sight. the thumb screw for windage adjustment is super loose. and the rectical flip up will not stay together with the larger ring.
but like i said $20...no big deal. i shot with them today and i held a 2.5" to 3" group at 25 yrds standing. so they work, but then again they are not real dependable.
if you want to get them to see if it is something you are wanting before you drop the real dough on the ligit magpul sights i would say do it.
as for me they are off the rifle, i will take them apart, blueprint them, and make a very tight set from aluminum.
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MotoShot10R
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Ohh, if you make some from aluminum I will be begging for a pair. LOL
I will be doing that, maybe get them anodized black, dunno. It wont be hard, will make some changes, going to add hop up rings to the front sight post. takes small tools but ive got some endmills that are .015 diameter.
Why bother to make your own from aluminum when, if you simply want to stay in the budget range, you can do something like this instead > Mako Group A2 Style Front/Rear Sights for M4 / AR15 Rifles. GM-FS1, GM-RS1, GM-FRS1. Mako Group Weapon Accessories. - $27.95 - or, if you want to stay with a budget flip type on the front and rear, you can go with UTG (leapers) or NCStar and do these:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leapers-utg-flip-up-tactical-front-sight-mnt-751.html
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leapers-utg-flip-up-tactical-rear-sight-complete-with-dual-aiming-aperture-mnt-951.html
http://www.opticsplanet.net/ncstar-ar15-flip-up-front-sight.html
http://www.opticsplanet.net/ncstar-ar15-flip-up-rear-sight.html
For the pricing, is it worth your time and materials (although would be cheap) to make your own? I could understand it if you wanted to duplicate something like the Troy battlesights, but for something so cheap like these is it worth it to duplicate the PTS in aluminum in terms of time and effort when you could, probably by shopping around a bit, find an aluminim budget version even cheaper then whats shown in the links above?
Of course, if your going to make custom improvements along the way then maybe a fun project and worth it for a custom project.
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checkdalevel
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so came back from the range today and noticed the metal pins that hold my mbus pts sights together were walking out. i pushed them back and applied some thread lock on both side to keep them in place.
anybody else having this issue
anybody else having this issue
checkdalevel
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yeh i just went to a gunshow this weekend and noticed the prices werent all that great. You can find things on the internet and ebay cheaper.
40 and 50 are the real magpul prices. Hopefully you got the real ones. This thread is talking about the knock-off brand or the lower quality versions. My pins are super loose and have been like that since I got them. That's why they are off the rail and disassembled, waiting to be dimensioned.
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