Mags for M -1 carbine

[AJ]

Some of the comments here just make me laugh.........

 

[bph9]

One other warning that I forgot about is the very soft floor plate of the magazines. I do not recommend you ever strip down the cheap thin magazine floor plates as they will bend faster than bending a piece of paper and if you do not pound them flat again when reinstalling them they will slip out of the bottom of the magazine causing a rather quick jam to the gun. As they say "I've been there and done that more than once".

 

[MyTurn]

Can't think of a handier and more capable for the job home defense gun.

 

[M29since14]

I agree. I have a carbine on duty and have had for decades, literally. It fires every time I pull the trigger, but I have never seen the need for or tried to use 30-round magazines.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Well said. The carbine was rushed into production and I've never seen one that was half as reliable as a Garand.

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

 

[Puller]

.......Lots of "smoke & mirrors" and "old wive's tales" out there..........

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

I agree. I tend to think that the people who have issues with surplus M1 carbines tend to not recognize they are indeed surplus. By the 1990's a lot of these surplus carbines had been through WWII, Korea, some in Viet Nam, sent for service in other nations, and others serving in civilian law enforcement. By then then they were 50+ years old and who knows how well they were maintained. Many probably needed new springs, extractors, and people were reusing magazines that were designed to be used only once. Does not surprise me some of these guns had issues.

My experience, though, has been that a well cleaned and maintained M1 carbine that is in proper specifications and is using specified ammo is very functional and reliable. I have never not been able to NOT make one work and have never seen one blow up. I have rarely seen a damaged piston housing and it was usually due to improper care (like letting cleaning solvent or oil get in the piston housing) or someone dinking around with it not knowing what they are doing.

One of the best testimonies of service for surplus M1 carbines is their use by the NYC Stakeout Squad headed by Jim Cirillo. Seems Cirillo and his team were able to make the M1 carbine work.

 

[AJ]

I agree. I tend to think that the people who have issues with surplus M1 carbines tend to not recognize they are indeed surplus. By the 1990's a lot of these surplus carbines had been through WWII, Korea, some in Viet Nam, sent for service in other nations, and others serving in civilian law enforcement. By then then they were 50+ years old and who knows how well they were maintained. Many probably needed new springs, extractors, and people were reusing magazines that were designed to be used only once. Does not surprise me some of these guns had issues.

My experience, though, has been that a well cleaned and maintained M1 carbine that is in proper specifications and is using specified ammo is very functional and reliable. I have never not been able to NOT make one work and have never seen one blow up. I have rarely seen a damaged piston housing and it was usually due to improper care (like letting cleaning solvent or oil get in the piston housing) or someone dinking around with it not knowing what they are doing.

One of the best testimonies of service for surplus M1 carbines is their use by the NYC Stakeout Squad headed by Jim Cirillo. Seems Cirillo and his team were able to make the M1 carbine work.

A lot of folks do get some that are in need of a trip to an Armory for rebuild. Have see a some pretty worn out ones when I was collecting. Also a bad reputation can come from some of the after market carbines that are out there, Universal comes to mind and a few others. I had a Universal once that I got in a trade many years ago. Could not get rid of it fast enough.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Ian had an interview with an old time so called expert of the M1 carbine. Ian specifically stated he could never get any M1 carbine to work reliably. The so called expert simply replied with a contrived polite excuse and that was and I quote "The standards of reliability were less during those days". He was admitting Ian was 100% correct.

I myself was warned by my buddies way back in the 70's not to expect an M1 Carbine to work reliably and when I bought several they were 100% correct. Neither their carbines nor mine was worthy of taking into a battle unless you planned on committing suicide and going out in a blaze of glory.

The carbine's low recoil and dashing looks even made a big hit with the WWII Japanese as they often used the battle field pick up M1 carbines. I suppose their smaller statue made the lower recoiling M1 Carbine appealing and since they had a bad habit of using banzai suicide charges poor reliability was not a problem.

G.I.'s liked the Carbine for guard duty in the South Pacific at night because of its firepower over the 1911 or M1 rifle. They simply emptied one into the black of the night when they heard the slightest noise at night.

In defense of the M1 Carbine I once did a penetration experiment because the Carbine was often bad mouthed by the usual Dufus gun writers as having poor penetration. As usual they were wrong. When I shot into car windshields the carbine fmj bullets penetrated the auto windshield while the more modern 5.56mm using fmj commercial bullets did not penetrate very well often fragmenting. Green tip ammo did penetrate because (despite denials by gun owning Congressmen) it is armor piercing ammo. That came about when the ATF tried to ban the sale of surplus green tipped ammo.

Like General Patton I was always appalled by the poor accuracy of an M1 Carbine. Of course those that defend this weapon claim it was only meant to replace the 1911 pistol and was to be used only for close range blasting. This it will do if shot at normal pistol ranges of under 50 yards.

Good points. I wonder why the Corps would issue so many guys with a sub standard weapon? Probably because the USMC lives and breaths weapons maintenance. Except in Korea where the cold really made it a poor weapon, if properly clean and greased like an M1 rifle, it was OK. The not staying open mag design can be cured with a hack saw which is the only difference between the M1 and M2 followers. I would bet the field armorers fixed that first thing. If they can jury rig a full auto carbine (which they did) the mag issue would be easy.
The accuracy issue is debatable. I have an old NPM with an original IBM barrel well used that holds the 9 ring (4") on an SR-1 at 100 yds all day. Given a choice I'd want an M1 rifle too but a carbine is nothing to sneeze at. I think the carbines reputation preceded it. I worked with a Guadalcanal Marine and he bitched and moaned about the carbine. The didn't have any carbines on the Canal.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I have and my friends have been shooting M1 Carbines since the 1970's I think that is more than enough experience with them to know about all of their problems and as I stated its more than just reliability issues. As I said before the gas piston ring is a very poor design that often leads to the piston housing cracking.

There are no rings on a carbine piston. Crack? maybe..some makers used a put together gas/ barrel others like Winchester had it all in one piece. The more likely problem was buggered up threads in the piston nut. They at first worried about cleaning the gas system and had a castle nut pipe thread arrangement so the nut could be removed to clean. Experience showed that the N.C. primers, powder type and position of the piston made cleaning unnecessary and just staked the nuts in place at the factory.

 

[DWalt]

Many years ago, my first Carbine was acting up. I replaced every spring in it, even including the bolt extractor spring, it worked 100% after that. Never had an issue with 15 round GI magazines. My old Ohio home town was a major rail center with immense rail yards and maintenance shops. I remember the railroad cops in the yards carried Carbines, never knew of them being used. Personal feeling, for any serious use I would prefer a .30 Carbine to an M16/M4.

I have mentioned this story several times, but I once long ago worked with a retired Marine Colonel who had fought through the Pacific in WWII and the same later in Korea. He always carried a Carbine and said he never shot any of the enemy who got up afterward.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

I agree. I tend to think that the people who have issues with surplus M1 carbines tend to not recognize they are indeed surplus. By the 1990's a lot of these surplus carbines had been through WWII, Korea, some in Viet Nam, sent for service in other nations, and others serving in civilian law enforcement. By then then they were 50+ years old and who knows how well they were maintained. Many probably needed new springs, extractors, and people were reusing magazines that were designed to be used only once. Does not surprise me some of these guns had issues.

My experience, though, has been that a well cleaned and maintained M1 carbine that is in proper specifications and is using specified ammo is very functional and reliable. I have never not been able to NOT make one work and have never seen one blow up. I have rarely seen a damaged piston housing and it was usually due to improper care (like letting cleaning solvent or oil get in the piston housing) or someone dinking around with it not knowing what they are doing.

One of the best testimonies of service for surplus M1 carbines is their use by the NYC Stakeout Squad headed by Jim Cirillo. Seems Cirillo and his team were able to make the M1 carbine work.

They used them because that's what they had available at the time.

An M4 loaded with 77 grain OTM ballistics tips would have been far more effective for a stakeout role.

 

[Dave Haynes]

You're blowing air into a balloon that busted in 1943........Gamer over.......Goodbye.

Leaving with a whimper?

The best arguments for liking and owning a US carbine: They made 6M in 4+ years and never made another and they are still around and expensive. All attempts to make commercial twins of these guns haven't done well. The carbines designs had to pass a 6,000 rd pass/fail test to even start making the guns (See if S&W wants any part of that). ALL PARTS INTERCHANGE!!!! regardless of which companies used them. People are paying $1000+ for carbines that have been sitting in a sxxxhole warehouse in Ethiopia since the 60s.
I saw a ton of them in use in '66-67. Every VC tax collector in a hammock on every bridge had a carbine. Would I want to have one if I had been in a gunfight? Given a choice, no but I'd take an M-14 over an M-16 anytime.

 

[DWalt]

There are no rings on a carbine piston. Crack? maybe..some makers used a put together gas/ barrel others like Winchester had it all in one piece. The more likely problem was buggered up threads in the piston nut. They at first worried about cleaning the gas system and had a castle nut pipe thread arrangement so the nut could be removed to clean. Experience showed that the N.C. primers, powder type and position of the piston made cleaning unnecessary and just staked the nuts in place at the factory.

I didn't understand that comment either. A Carbine has no piston, only a short stroke tappet secured by a threaded retainer. There is seldom any reason to remove the tappet for cleaning and I have never done it. I have cleaned mine by plugging the chamber then pouring bore solvent down the vertical bore, then wiggling the tappet back and forth with a magnet to pump the solvent in and out of the tappet housing. Never saw or heard of any cracks.

 

[Puller]

They used them because that's what they had available at the time.

An M4 loaded with 77 grain OTM ballistics tips would have been far more effective for a stakeout role.

Yep, kinda like the marines on Iwo Jima and the paratroopers who jumped into Normandy. That doesn't mean they were not effective firearms.

A phaser on stun would work too, if they had them.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Yep, kinda like the marines on Iwo Jima and the paratroopers who jumped into Normandy. That doesn't mean they were not effective firearms.

A phaser on stun would work too, if they had them.

If only. I love the world of Roddenberry's Star Trek.

But if anything, we're more like the Klingons in actuality as a species. I hope and pray but don't think the Federation type scenario is in our future anytime soon.

 

[rwsmith]

Anytime I need a mag I look at Mag Warehouse. Great selection and prices. I see that have about 12 m1 carbine mags. KCI, Promag...

 

[austintexas]

I was Issued and trained on 30 carbines in the U.S. Air force from '61 to '68 and in '68 when I got to Phu Cat Vietnam I was handed an M16. First Sergeant handed me a piece of paper and said if we were about to be overrun to come to the orderly room and they would issue me my M16 and 80 rounds of ammo. The next week I took a case of C rations next door to the ROK camp and traded it for an AK-47. They had a mountain of captured weapons and would trade for anything. I had to find an A2C to show me how to disassemble and clean my M16. Never had a magazine problem with carbine mags but we never loaded M16 mags with a full load, especially the 30 rounders.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Good points. I wonder why the Corps would issue so many guys with a sub standard weapon? Probably because the USMC lives and breaths weapons maintenance. Except in Korea where the cold really made it a poor weapon, if properly clean and greased like an M1 rifle, it was OK. The not staying open mag design can be cured with a hack saw which is the only difference between the M1 and M2 followers. I would bet the field armorers fixed that first thing. If they can jury rig a full auto carbine (which they did) the mag issue would be easy.
The accuracy issue is debatable. I have an old NPM with an original IBM barrel well used that holds the 9 ring (4") on an SR-1 at 100 yds all day. Given a choice I'd want an M1 rifle too but a carbine is nothing to sneeze at. I think the carbines reputation preceded it. I worked with a Guadalcanal Marine and he bitched and moaned about the carbine. The didn't have any carbines on the Canal.

Bolts not locking open during stress firing is not a negative characteristic. No matter what you and I think, no one...NO ONE...becomes "one with the gun" and stops aggressive fighting because they feel the bolt lock open, indicating a failure or empty mag. That's range, armchair commando thinking. During fight shooting, a person will not be able to stop an aggressive trigger action in time to know the bolt is open. They learn it because they press the trigger and nothing happens. Being a career retired law enforcement deady force instructor, and having reviewed, witnessed and investigated a bazillion officer involved deadly force incidents, the pattern of human behavior is the same. If it goes click, do something....typically. it is to reload.

 

[sousana]

Found 3 cases of S&B 110gr fmj at an estate sale yesterday. $100 a case

 

[skipcress]

Not a direct answer to the original question, but Fulton Armory has a good article for identifying original GI mags, and perhaps more importantly the fakes:

Fulton Armory FAQ: The Lowdown on M1 Carbine Magazines

Skipcress

 

[elfego baca]

I have a 'bunch' ò M1 cảbine Mags. All GI. Some 15 some 30. I like the 15s for range plinking!
My cast bullet loads work un all of them.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Bolts not locking open during stress firing is not a negative characteristic. No matter what you and I think, no one...NO ONE...becomes "one with the gun" and stops aggressive fighting because they feel the bolt lock open, indicating a failure or empty mag. That's range, armchair commando thinking. During fight shooting, a person will not be able to stop an aggressive trigger action in time to know the bolt is open. They learn it because they press the trigger and nothing happens. Being a career retired law enforcement deady force instructor, and having reviewed, witnessed and investigated a bazillion officer involved deadly force incidents, the pattern of human behavior is the same. If it goes click, do something....typically. it is to reload.

If you watch some of the rare film footage from Tarawa, there are several Marines behind a bunker or some cover. One is armed with a carbine and happens to catch what looks like a squad of Japanese moving to some other area. He has several dead to rights at really close range, he raises the carbine and click....all the Japs escape. That's why I'd be happier with a hold open follower. There is no doubt that it's empty. The arrival of both Carbine and M1 was timely and the automatic fire really raised the effectiveness of the Marines. There was a hint when the Marines stole every Garand that wasn't tied down at Guadalcanal. At Tarawa if they still had 1903s it could have been worse. From that perspective I'd take a carbine over a bolt action 5 shot every time.

 

[desi2358]

I didn't understand that comment either. A Carbine has no piston, only a short stroke tappet secured by a threaded retainer. There is seldom any reason to remove the tappet for cleaning and I have never done it. I have cleaned mine by plugging the chamber then pouring bore solvent down the vertical bore, then wiggling the tappet back and forth with a magnet to pump the solvent in and out of the tappet housing. Never saw or heard of any cracks.

You're quite correct, the tappet system works and your method for cleaning one is the same I've used. It worked even with some of the fake LC Chinese stuff that was imported years ago and was found to be corrosive. Some people do refer to the tappet as a piston, I've encountered more than a few who do that over the years. The nut that retains the tappet is staked to discourage unneeded disassembly and ensure it doesn't work loose on its own.

I have found a couple tappet housings with cracks. Two that I recall were Korean returns, one was an older DCM gun. Normally running from the small hole left over from machining through the threads. Since the nut was staked in place it didn't seem to have any effect on operation. I didn't feel like spending money on a barrel so I just shot the heck out of the first one and the nut never came loose in all the time I owned it.

 

[bph9]

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[bph9]

There are no rings on a carbine piston. Crack? maybe..some makers used a put together gas/ barrel others like Winchester had it all in one piece. The more likely problem was buggered up threads in the piston nut. They at first worried about cleaning the gas system and had a castle nut pipe thread arrangement so the nut could be removed to clean. Experience showed that the N.C. primers, powder type and position of the piston made cleaning unnecessary and just staked the nuts in place at the factory.

I have had the retaining ring come loose on all my M1 carbines and if you tighten it too tight it cracks the gas tappet housing faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof. I stand by what I said, it's a very poor design because once you remove the tappet to clean the gas system you probably will not be able to re-stake it without damaging the housing.

I have passed up buying many an M1 Carbine after first checking to see if the tappet housing was cracked and guess what many of the ones I looked at had indeed cracked housings.

And I also disagree on the wild excuses that it was designed that what way because you never need to take it apart. Well you do not if you just want a single shot weapon because sooner than later the systeem does indeed need cleaned.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I have had the retaining ring come loose on all my M1 carbines and if you tighten it too tight it cracks the gas tappet housing faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof. I stand by what I said, it's a very poor design because once you remove the tappet to clean the gas system you probably will not be able to re-stake it without damaging the housing.

I have passed up buying many an M1 Carbine after first checking to see if the tappet housing was cracked and guess what many of the ones I looked at had indeed cracked housings.

And I also disagree on the wild excuses that it was designed that what way because you never need to take it apart. Well you do not if you just want a single shot weapon because sooner than later the systeem does indeed need cleaned.

I've seen inside several with the castle nut removed and they all were clean as a whistle, I mean absolutely no carbon at all and dry as a bone, the tappets also clear and clean. May be choice of powder, who knows. Maybe they had been cleaned. They originally used 4227
and IMR stick powder seems like it would leave more debris after firing. I guarantee that those Marine carbines were shot to Sxxx and their guns were staked. Most guns I've seen have threads left sticking out after tightening ( which is why they get cracked, when Bubba tries to make it go down flush with the cylinder where there are no threads ). Staking is simply interrupting the threads so they can't turn, a punch spot where the threads meet will do it and not wreck things. Every carbine owner should have a new piston nut as well as several extractors, plungers and springs. Probably most surplus carbines have been restaked, some several times. Absolutely agree that the gas area can be cracked by over torquing with that wrench. Inland etc bought millions of those gas cylinders. I'd bet that a lot of them looked fine and were when left alone, but when messed with would fail. I've watch people do horrible things with a wrench in hand.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I am not going to argue with you bph9. It is obvious that you And internet "links" mean nothing. Mag loaders and stripper clips/guides

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I am not going argue with you bph9. Asking for internet "links" is silly, and sale items on Ebay do not grant credibility. Mag loaders and stripper clip/guides are available as support items for every magazine issued from WW2 to present with the exception of handguns. Magazines newly issued were and are loaded in support areas by logistical or direct combat personnel. These items are used as directed when available. Some feed systems are pre-loaded but very few. If the word "disposable" bothers you, then reconstruct the sentence with "lower priority item" or "retain when practical". Same is true for M1 clips, belts and links for squad belt feds, yet issue belt loader and linkers were issued to load these in echelon support areas. Some linked ammo, when it became available, was pre-loaded by depots.

 

[AJ]

I was taught that there are two basic styles of reloading a weapon. A "Speed Reload" and a "Tactical Reload". A "Speed Reaload" is a reload where you drop the empty mag and reload the fresh mag as fast as you can. You do not attempt to recover/retain the mag as someone is shooting at you and you do not have the time to save the mag. A "Tactical Reload" is where you have the time to retain the mag for future use and can return it to your mag pouch or pocket. Of course, after things have subsided all mags can be picked up for reuse. When I taught, I taught both types of reloading. However, I stressed that if in a gunfight only a "Speed Reload" was to be used. "Tactical Reloads" have cost people their lives.

 

[Matt_X]

I have an old NPM with an original IBM barrel well used that holds the 9 ring (4") on an SR-1 at 100 yds all day.

I think keeping in the SR-1 9 ring is a realistic expectation.
Anything outside the black is me, not the gun or the ammo.

Given a choice I'd want an M1 rifle too but a carbine is nothing to sneeze at.

For accuracy and distance, the rifle is better for sure, especially with hasty or loop sling. But as far as which is better, it situation dependent for sure. Audie Murphy mentions one incident where he would have "given the world" for a tommy gun.

I worked with a Guadalcanal Marine and he bitched and moaned about the carbine. The didn't have any carbines on the Canal.

It's the same in almost every field and endevour. A story or belief starts getting around and gets repeated and even if it had made sense the first time, at some point in the telling it no longer would be physically possible. Paul Harrell addresses this in several of his videos including the ones on experts and the one about the M1 carbine.