Making Screws for my Schofield

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,



Just as the title says, I want to replace some of the screws on my
2nd. issue Schofield.

Just so you know a little about my background, I have been machining
parts for a long time (over 40 years). I have been collecting information
(like Chicoine's books) but I still wish there was really good information
on the threads used in these 19th century firearms.

Most sources purport that threads were 60° Vee form but I do know
that some major manufacturers used other standards. Case in point,
the threads used by the Springfield Armory during the manufacture
of the "trapdoor" rifle were Whitworth type (55° with rounded crests
and roots). I found this out when removing a broken off bridle
screw in the lock plate on my 1884.

So, making replacement screws can be challenging especially when
the actual thread form isn't truly known.

I wish I had an optical comparator so I could look and measure
the threads on the old screws (angle, depth and any special treatment
of the root and crest of the threads).

So, has anyone made a study of the threads on these?

Cheers!
Webb

 

[gmborkovic]

Hello Mr. Webb, how many screws do you want to replace? and location.
Are they broken or suffer head/slot fatigue? Buggered.

 

[rct269]

I have a "Thread List- Smith & Wesson" circa "5-20-09". It provides Diameter, Pitch, and Tapping Size for 10 different models (newer than a Schofield), for what appears to be every screw (threaded item) in the particular model. I don't know what some of the models are (32 SAF., 38 SAF,) also for several models I at least think I recognize (32 D.A., 38 D.A., 44 D.A., Model M, Model I, Model K, (And it's likely these last three belong up there in the don't know list.) 44 H E, and 38 Per. It occurs to me (as a SWAG) the screws for a 44 D.A. just might be the same as those for a Schofield----simply because I can't think of a good reason why they shouldn't be.

So, if this information strikes your fancy, send a PM telling me name/address of where to send it------via snail mail.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, the several different pitches are 64, 48, 47, 60, 44, 40, 56, 32, 36, 55, and 35. I'll hazard a guess several of these are not standard.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There

Hello Mr. Webb, how many screws do you want to replace? and location.
Are they broken or suffer head/slot fatigue? Buggered.

Basically, all of the above (except broken). The rear cylinder retainer
screw is wrong (it is the just another front cylinder retainer screw.

Plus, this is the kind of project I like to do. I have the necessary
equipment to do this but I like to be armed with the best information
I can get. Most of the screws use commercially available thread
pitches and are close to the standard diameters. Most gunsmiths
use split dies but I have some geometric threading dies (5/16" size)
that use replaceable thread chasers and they have a fairly broad
adjustment range to conform to different diameters (within limits
of course). About the only one I may have to have custom made
is a set of chasers for 46 tpi. But I don't need that one just yet.

I was just checking the info pool to get all the info I can. Thanks
for all the help!

Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

S&W used proprietary thread sizes and pitches. Some approximate American Standard and some approximate Whitworth. Neither are spot on for these S&W screws. Here's a sample:

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

S&W used proprietary thread sizes and pitches. Some approximate American Standard and some approximate Whitworth. Neither are spot on for these S&W screws. Here's a sample:

Thanks for the Table/Chart. I have copied it and will put it in my S&W
folder.

I didn't mean to imply that S&W screws were all "standard" sizes.
If they were, I wouldn't have needed to post my questions.
What I was trying to say was that there are threading chasers
that have the correct thread pitch that I can use to make replacement
screws (although the actual profile may be slightly different).

This is case of "close enough" to be able to produce an acceptable
replacement. David Chicoine in his book Gunsmithing Guns of the
Old West imparts that the thread form used was a 60 degree Vee
form but I don't think it completely matches SAE or National Thread
standards.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

I will add that 'buggered' screws can be made to look presentable (as opposed to making a new one and finishing them) by supporting the screw head loosely in a vise and peining the upset metal of the slot back into place. This will preserve the original screw and finish.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I will add that 'buggered' screws can be made to look presentable (as opposed to making a new one and finishing them) by supporting the screw head loosely in a vise and peining the upset metal of the slot back into place. This will preserve the original screw and finish.

Yes, you are right that sometimes displaced metal can be
peened back to some degree and the original screw returned
to a more acceptable appearance but these screws are beyond
that point. They are severely buggered and some have their
slots filed with a 60° three-square file so that screwdriver
retention is near impossible while turning the screw without
extreme downward pressure.

Plus, this is my fun. I was asking for information so that I will
be able to make the best replacements I can.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

Webb, are before and after photos going to be available? This sounds like a very desirable endeavor and that others like me would love to see your final product. Also, once you get the screw threads figured out then others will probably ask to buy your screws. Anyone messing with antique S&W parts is hard to find.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Webb, are before and after photos going to be available? This sounds like a very desirable endeavor and that others like me would love to see your final product. Also, once you get the screw threads figured out then others will probably ask to buy your screws. Anyone messing with antique S&W parts is hard to find.

I hadn't thought about it until you brought it up. I guess I could
do that. I just have to remember to take the pics.

Don't expect to see anything for a week or more. I've got several
things going on here and I have to divide my time between them.
I'm teaching myself Bookbinding and I have to fix my son's Camaro
while I collect the materials for making replacement screws.
But keep an eye out.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Well, I haven't Made any screws yet but I am starting the preliminaries.
The first screw I plan to make will be the pivot joint screw. I have
included a couple pics of it below. From Chicoine's book "Gunsmithing
Guns of the Old West," 2nd. Ed. I have included a copy of the page
listing screw sizes for S&W #3 Revolvers (I've highlighted the entry
for the Pivot Joint Screw). From that I like to make a drawing of the
screw I want to make. I should start the machining in the next
few days. Stay Tuned.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I've made a slight change in plan. I am going to make the Hammer
Spring Tension Screw first. This is because the tooling came in and
the screw follows the standard for a #7 X 32 thread (+/- .002").

In the table in Chicoine's book, this screw is listed as being .420"
long but the screw I removed from mine was .435". I'd be curious
to know what other people's #3's tension screws measured.

Anyway, here are pics of the progress so far. I still have to round
the ends and cut the slot (when my slitting saw comes in).

Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I've cut 4 blanks for the tension screw and slotted one of them
to test in the gun. They came out rather good (I think). See
pics.

They still need polishing and I plan to plate a couple of them to
match this Schofield better.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

Nice! Looks so much better than the ugly, buggered screw.

 

[growr]

Members of this forum never cease to amaze me with skills, knowledge and abilities!!!

Randy

 

[Jay Hall]

Mr. Chicoine repaired the action on my first model Schofield some 30 years ago, he was very skilled, made the parts if he did not have them,,and was VERY expensive, but it was a great experience.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,



Well, it is time for an update on how screwy I've been.

I've been working on the Schofield cylinder retainer/latch screws.
and I wanted to show some of the progress I've made so far. The
screws are the front cylinder retainer/latch screws. The rear ones
are similar but the shaft is slightly larger in diameter and a portion
is cut away. The old screw in the cylinder latch/retainer is another
front screw (which will work for a rear screw and my Schofield was
using this screw for a rear screw).


Cheers!
Webb

 

[rwsmith]

Wow. Old proprietary.....

.... thread details for teeny-tiny screws. You guys are really something. Makes me proud to call myself a nerd.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Well, I have been working on making the rear Cylinder Retainer/
Latch Screw. This screw is somewhat unusual in that it is partially
cut away to allow the retainer pivot up slightly for cylinder removal.
After studying an original screw, I revised my drawing. The cutaway
area is not flat but has a radius to it. In order to replicate this, I
made a jig to hold the screw blank for turning the undercut section.
The first pic of the jig is the jig empty. The second is with the
screw blank ready for turning. The last one shows the screw turned.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

After de-burring and breaking of sharp edges, the screw is ready
for installation.

Cheers!
Webb