Malfunctioning S&W .38 Special.

[Michael Harless]

About a year ago my mother passed away.

I found a S&W 38 special revolver in her safe. It has a ~2-inch barrel.

This gun is at least 40 years old, is a family heirloom, and has historical significance as an icon of 2nd amendment and 19th amendment civil rights.

The problem is, when I pull the trigger once, it doesn't work after that.

My first thought is to just give it a long bath in oil.

What would you do?

 

[chief38]

Bring it to a qualified GunSmith. You might get lucky and just have to pay for a deep cleaning.

 

[Inusuit]

Chief38 gives you good advice especially if you are new to firearms. A revolver that's been in storage a long time with an unknown history of maintenance is likely to be gummed up with dried lubricant. An oil bath will not fix that.

If you want to try something before going to a gunsmith, remove the grips, open the cylinder, and spray a solvent into every opening. Gun Scrubber is a brand name available anywhere firearms are sold. If that frees up the gun, be sure to lightly lubricate those same openings with a good gun oil.

 

[BC38]

I'd take the grips off and put it into a sealed container submerged in a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone for a few days. Then pull it out, blow compressed air through every opening and see what you've got. That will remove any gummy deposits and I'd bet a dollar that will fix the problem.

 

[4barrel]

My shooting buddy soaks his in diesel after a shooting session with the stocks removed. It wont hurt the finish.

 

[DeathGrip]

Follow Chief38s advice.

For my money, A deep clean should involve removing the side plate. You better have proper screwdrivers to keep from chewing up the heads or worse yet scratching the gun.

 

[sheepdawg]

I'd take the grips off and put it into a sealed container submerged in a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone for a few days. Then pull it out, blow compressed air through every opening and see what you've got. That will remove any gummy deposits and I'd bet a dollar that will fix the problem.

Just thinking, would acetone mess with the finish on an aluminum framed revolver like an old model 12?

 

[BC38]

Just thinking, would acetone mess with the finish on an aluminum framed revolver like an old model 12?

Good point. I was thinking of an all-steel gun.
Not really a safe assumption as your post points out.

 

[BC38]

Follow Chief38s advice.

For my money, A deep clean should involve removing the side plate. You better have proper screwdrivers to keep from chewing up the heads or worse yet scratching the gun.

And you'd better know what you're doing as well.
Many people (most?) don't...

 

[DeathGrip]

And you'd better know what you're doing as well.
Many people (most?) don't...

Some can and some shouldn't even try.

 

[Michael Harless]

Follow Chief38s advice.

For my money, A deep clean should involve removing the side plate. You better have proper screwdrivers to keep from chewing up the heads or worse yet scratching the gun.

I know I have the right tiny little screwdrivers, somewhere around here. I'd have to find them.

I thinking that I should figure out how to post a picture of it, to better express what I am talking about.

 

[Golphin]

I know I have the right tiny little screwdrivers, somewhere around here. I'd have to find them.

I thinking that I should figure out how to post a picture of it, to better express what I am talking about.

If you are thinking of removing any screws get a set of gunsmith screwdrivers first. Also study up a lot first as you may end up at the gunsmith with a larger problem if you just start taking the gun apart.

 

[Michael Harless]

I'd take the grips off and put it into a sealed container submerged in a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone for a few days. Then pull it out, blow compressed air through every opening and see what you've got. That will remove any gummy deposits and I'd bet a dollar that will fix the problem.

Thanks for the advice.

However, I'm playing doctor with this patient. Primum non nocere.

 

[Hair Trigger]

If you are thinking of removing any screws get a set of gunsmith screwdrivers first. Also study up a lot first as you may end up at the gunsmith with a larger problem if you just start taking the gun apart.

I second that about the proper screwdrivers. Even if they fit the slot, you don't want tapered blades, they will gall the top edge of the slot too easily. The screws are under moderate torque for their size, so they won't come loose from shooting, and you still need a rather large grip on a small blade to get them loose. Jeweler's drivers aren't the right kind.

 

[Michael Harless]

Bring it to a qualified GunSmith. You might get lucky and just have to pay for a deep cleaning.

I don't know any gunsmiths. How much usually charge to fix an old .38 special.

 

[ken158]

I don't know any gunsmiths. How much usually charge to fix an old .38 special.

If you had your location listed you would get more help and maybe a close by forum member that could help you out or at least recommend someone close.

 

[Krogen]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread, some of it from hard lessons. Screwdrivers are a big deal. Only use snug-fitting, hollow-ground gunsmith screwdrivers or you will likely bugger up the screws. If you take off the sideplate, do it right. Don't pry it off or you will bugger it up too. Be careful using solvents. In particular be cautious of degreasers. Unless you get a film of oil back on the steel parts you just degreased they will eventually rust. Degreaser means just that.

Sooo.... look before you leap!

Finally: Where are you located? Members might be able to offer a gunsmith's name or be willing to help you in person.

 

[Dan Zulu]

Just out of curiosity what is the relationship between the 19th amendment and this model gun?

 

[murphydog]

Perhaps his mother had older relatives in the women's suffrage movement of the early 20th century? Interested to find out.

 

[jframejoey]

Can you post a pic of the gun with the grips removed? Maybe someone backed the strain screw out long ago to make it lighter for you mom and it just kept working its way loose. Lots of people think its and "adjustment screw". Another common problem is years of old dried up WD-40 which could gum it up and prevent it from working properly.

 

[Michael Harless]

Perhaps his mother had older relatives in the women's suffrage movement of the early 20th century? Interested to find out.

Harless v. Duck

Harless=My mother, whose 38 special I found in her safe after she passed away.

Duck= Chief of the Toledo Police Department.

It was several decades ago, so I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly, the lawsuit was because female recruits were being discriminated against by the Toledo Police Department due to not being able to do a 6' standing broad jump, even though athleticism such as doing a 6' broad jump was not in the job description.

She won. Therefore you see many female police officers all over America to this day. It was a landmark case, for both gun rights and women's rights. (2nd and 19th amendments)

My mother was ordered not to bring her service gun to work.

So she brought her own gun to work, and was promptly arrested for exercising her 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms.

That's the gun I'm talking about.

 

[Dan Zulu]

HARLESS v. DUCK | 619 F.2d 611 (1980) | f2d61111126 | Leagle.com

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[shocker]

You could watch this video and decide if you want to tackle this DIY.
Disassembly and Care of the S&W Revolver ~ Learn how to from a Factory Trained Armorer! - YouTube

 

[scooter123]

I know I have the right tiny little screwdrivers, somewhere around here. I'd have to find them.

I thinking that I should figure out how to post a picture of it, to better express what I am talking about.

You DO NOT want to use tiny little screwdrivers, all those will do is destroy the slots in the screws. What you MUST use are FITTED PRECISION GUNSMITH SCREWDRIVERS.

Because you will find that these screws are very very tight. It will take just about all of your strength and a chin pressing VERY hard on the butt of the screwdriver to get them to break loose. I also advise that someone other than yourself hold the revolver while you concentrate on keeping the tip well centered and perfectly square while you apply the force needed to break the screw loose.

After all of the screws have been removed you then have to lift the sideplate free of the frame. Another operation that requires the correct technique. Try and pry that sideplate free and what you will have is a Parts Gun, because that sideplate will NEVER EVER fit properly in the frame recess again. The technique for removing the sideplate is to use Vibration. What you do is tap on the grip frame with the plastic handle of a screwdriver. After somewhere around 50 to 100 taps that sideplate will have lifted far enough out to the frame recess you can remove it easily without the application of any significant force. Note, if it wont wiggle easily keep tapping. Now take a good detailed picture of the lockwork of that revolver. Because you will have to figure out how to get each and every part back together exactly like this. Note, the Rebound Spring will be a major point of frustration and it's a compress spring that will shoot into orbit if you don't retain it as you remove the rebound slide.

PS: I'm not going to go any further with guiding you on how to service your revolver. Because my post is only intended to provide you with reasons for going to a gunsmith. Because odds are excellent that you will be taking this revolver to a gunsmith either as an assembled revolver or as a bag of small parts that is missing a few items.

Note, not saying that you can't teach yourself, just saying you don't want to do that with a family heirloom. BTW I am pretty much self taught. In my case I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, nearly 40 years of design experience in industrial machines, and I started with the Kuhnhausen S&W Repair Manual. In addition I'm a life long tool junkie and have a fairly large collection of gunsmithing screwdriver tips.

 

[Michael Harless]

I'm not even half way through that video that shocker posted and I have already learned more about S&W revolvers in half an hour than I knew in a half a century.

The action is a lot more complicated than necessary and therefore prone to failure. Very delicate.

Thanks for that link.

 

[Michael Harless]

Bring it to a qualified GunSmith. You might get lucky and just have to pay for a deep cleaning.

Do you know any gunsmiths in the Toledo or Detroit area?

How can you tell the difference between a good gunsmith and a not-so-good gunsmith?

 

[Michael Harless]

Note, not saying that you can't teach yourself, just saying you don't want to do that with a family heirloom.

I may learn some gunsmithing, now that my interest has been piqued, but not with that gun.

I would rather practice my technique on a different gun.

 

[BC38]

You DO NOT want to use tiny little screwdrivers, all those will do is destroy the slots in the screws. What you MUST use are FITTED PRECISION GUNSMITH SCREWDRIVERS.

Because you will find that these screws are very very tight. It will take just about all of your strength and a chin pressing VERY hard on the butt of the screwdriver to get them to break loose. I also advise that someone other than yourself hold the revolver while you concentrate on keeping the tip well centered and perfectly square while you apply the force needed to break the screw loose.

After all of the screws have been removed you then have to lift the sideplate free of the frame. Another operation that requires the correct technique. Try and pry that sideplate free and what you will have is a Parts Gun, because that sideplate will NEVER EVER fit properly in the frame recess again. The technique for removing the sideplate is to use Vibration. What you do is tap on the grip frame with the plastic handle of a screwdriver. After somewhere around 50 to 100 taps that sideplate will have lifted far enough out to the frame recess you can remove it easily without the application of any significant force. Note, if it wont wiggle easily keep tapping. Now take a good detailed picture of the lockwork of that revolver. Because you will have to figure out how to get each and every part back together exactly like this. Note, the Rebound Spring will be a major point of frustration and it's a compress spring that will shoot into orbit if you don't retain it as you remove the rebound slide.

PS: I'm not going to go any further with guiding you on how to service your revolver. Because my post is only intended to provide you with reasons for going to a gunsmith. Because odds are excellent that you will be taking this revolver to a gunsmith either as an assembled revolver or as a bag of small parts that is missing a few items.

Note, not saying that you can't teach yourself, just saying you don't want to do that with a family heirloom. BTW I am pretty much self taught. In my case I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, nearly 40 years of design experience in industrial machines, and I started with the Kuhnhausen S&W Repair Manual. In addition I'm a life long tool junkie and have a fairly large collection of gunsmithing screwdriver tips.

FWIW, I haven't found any guns with the screws any where nearly as tight as what you're describing. If they are that tight or stuck it needs a good soak before trying to loosen them IMO.

I also find it helps a lot when removing the sideplate to lay the gun in your left hand, sideplate down and centered in your palm, THEN whack the grip frame with your right hand holding your plastic screw driver handle. Usually only takes about 5-10 whacks this way because you are allowing gravity to assist with vibrating it off.

Just a couple of tricks that have proven useful to me. YMMV.

 

[Univibe]

Don't squander your money on Gun Scrubber. It's $12 for a medium sized spray can.

Instead, go to the auto parts store and get Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner. It's $2.89 for a large spray can.

Wear rubber gloves. Spray that revolver down, inside and out, with brake cleaner. Blow it out with compressed air. Lubricate with light machine oil.

If that doesn't do it, take it to a pro.

 

[steelslaver]

I'm not even half way through that video that shocker posted and I have already learned more about S&W revolvers in half an hour than I knew in a half a century.

The action is a lot more complicated than necessary and therefore prone to failure. Very delicate.

Thanks for that link.

Hardly, I have S&W revolvers that are over 100 years old and still working fine. I have a model 18 that has had 10s of thousands of rounds through it and has had anything but a wipe down and a bore brush, 38, 357s 45s with thousands of rounds


I can take one apart no problem. But, most of the time, just removing the grips and spraying all the opening s with brake cleaner while working the action will get out the goo that causes most of the problems. $10 to a hole in a donut the cause of the problem is old oil turned to goo, Not a mechanical failure, but a lubricant failure
Once you really study it it isn't that complicated and IT WORKS. Everything you need and nothing you don't