Maybe we need to cut our losses?

[ladyT]

"Legislation" It's coming, there are no two ways about it. The only questions are how soon, in what form and how bad. Obama might go the legislative route if he can, but if that doesn't look good to him, he will not hesitate to issue an executive order or directive and those things are rarely overturned in court. I doubt there would be enough votes in Congress to pass legislation that would reverse such and order.

There will be no more "high capacity" magazines and no more "assault rifles". That is a done deal, in my opinion. I hope I am proven wrong, but barring some huge national issue that derails this thing, I don't see it going away. The media has been making sure it stays an issue.

The NRA has no credibility with the White House, and very little with Congress or the non-gun-owning public. Even a large number of "sportsmen" do not think the NRA represents their views. We can dig in our heels and fight. Maybe that is the thing to do, but might it not be better to take some losses and try and protect what we can? I wonder if we should…

1. Try to make the point that except for magazine capacity, an "assault rifle" is no different than any other semi auto. Try and get them to focus on magazine capacity and not the guns, so that if you like accessorizing and shooting ARs or AKs or whatever you can continue to do so, but will have to live with smaller magazines. (I doubt this will work because the other side assumes people will find a way to get large mags for such guns. They want to get rid of the guns that can take such mags, whether the mags are legal or not. All that **** about forbidden parts like pistol grips and flash hiders is just a way to get at such guns, and they are smarter now about how to do that.)

2. "Grandfather" existing magazines and guns so we don't end up having to pay exorbitant fees and go through a bureaucratic mess just to keep what we have already paid for and own, or perhaps even lose these items altogether (Or at a minimum, allow time for someone to start producing kits so we can convert mags we own instead of surrender them or treat them as Class 3 items)

3. Try to protect the ability to purchase ammo and reloading components online (think about what will happen to prices if we cannot)

4. Try to prevent the ridiculous idea of requiring background checks for reloading components and ammo.

5. Get behind some "reasonable" magazine limits instead of an arbitrary number (So many guns have original 11, 12, 13 round magazines… maybe we could get a slightly more reasonable limit if we tried).

At this point I would be relieved if all we got was the old ban with no sunset provision.

No COMPROMISE on the Second Amendment. If you do you undermine the Bill of Rights and those sho scarficed their lives for our Rights.

 

[10ring]

Keith:

Nice reply; well thought out and helpful. You called me a troll, so now I have to run off and cry in a corner. What's next, you'll "unfriend" me on facebook?

I have a job and a family and other interests and don't have time to post things on here all the time. Since I have so few posts, go and read some of them before you call me a troll.

You know, if what I said bothered you, try just moving on to something else that doesn't make you uncomfortable. You say don't feed the trolls. Excellent advice, but then why respond? I see that in your quote you deleted the question mark from my thread title. It was there for a reason. I was pondering something and thought this was the place to discuss it.

By the way, you should consider joining the NRA.

Look, after I wrote this post I regretted it and felt a bit petty. If you have a problem with what I said then state a position or make some points or just ignore it and don't attack me personally. In my world, there is nothing wrong with discussion even if it is somewhat controversial. I have made it clear (I hope) that I am very troubled by the current situation and raised something that had occurred to me. I raised it as a point for discussion. I was not trying to upset anyone. If you think I am somehow a troll, then consider that I have been on this forum for over 8 years and if you look at my posts you will find that any political discussion I ever entered into was 100% pro-gun rights.

 

[StatesRightist]

I get what you are saying and I take you at your word that you are with the gun owners camp. I also agree we need to be together, not divided, the opposition is strong enough.

I think many of us feel the Government will go far beyond a Hi Cap ban and tilt towards semi-auto confiscation etc. as a prequel to total confiscation. Most of us feel any compromise is disrespectful to the men who died to affirm our God given rights and opening the flood gates. It's a idealistic line, you are tipping toward the practical.

I also get your point about forums being watched. In the end it comes down to two things for me, one Thomas Paine was not quite, some things are worth stepping into the light for. Lastly, I imagine they are trying to get a feel for how much resistance the are going to get and how far they can go. I think it's important they know, a lot and not far. But as you said, it's a debatable approach.

As I said before, I trust you will do the right thing and have no interest in pontificating to the tune of beating up on you. Have a good evening, stay safe out there.

 

[handejector]

I recommend reading my edit before Post #1.

 

[keith44spl]

Keith:

Nice reply; well thought out and helpful. You called me a troll, so now I have to run off and cry in a corner. What's next, you'll "unfriend" me on facebook?

I have a job and a family and other interests and don't have time to post things on here all the time. Since I have so few posts, go and read some of them before you call me a troll.

You know, if what I said bothered you, try just moving on to something else that doesn't make you uncomfortable. You say don't feed the trolls. Excellent advice, but then why respond? I see that in your quote you deleted the question mark from my thread title. It was there for a reason. I was pondering something and thought this was the place to discuss it.

By the way, you should consider joining the NRA.

Mr. 10Ring,

My post was out of line.

I deleted it out of respect for your 1st ammendent rights.

Regards,
Dave

 

[long colt frazier]

Wow let's not waste our feelings on each other , write your guys in DC and send the NRA some money to help fight for our common interest.
Mark

 

[ladder13]

The anti's eat this up, the bickering

 

[DigiRebel]

In all of this I think our responses and attitudes will help win the day. Going off half-cocked (heh see what I did there) doesn't help us or our argument. The truth is we, the law abiding gun owning citizens, of the country hold all the cards. We have the facts, we have the realities. There is a reason that the media is showing so many of the "Whose Child needs to die next?" kind of stories. Its not because they can attack gun ownership on any kind of level other than the emotional.

Look at the Alex Jones v Piers Morgan "interview" from the other night. Mr Jones lost us more ground in the fight by yelling and screaming and not listening to Morgan's propagandized nonsense.

Topics like this are heated, and, without a doubt, emotional. But we need to be better than the gun snatchers out there.

I for one have no intention of complying with any form of gun collections. If they make anything I own illegal it will be hidden away carefully, and passed on down to my kids. Odds are poor that it will come to that (which of course means that any ban will be as useless as we all are saying it will be).

I have written my state representative and both senators (one of which flip-flopped on his long standing support of the 2nd Amendment after the Conn. Shooting). I have voted for this one senator every election since he started running for office. The last time, was the last time, unless he flip-flops again. I told him that my votes depended on his votes on this issue.

We shall see.

 

[offduty]

Wow ! Really

 

[Lenny_D]

L13 is right on. The antis will eat this stuff up. Biden has used things like this in the past two days stating gun owners are switching sides. I've seen it at a LGS when a younger guy came in on Tuesday trying to sell an AK because he said he wanted to get rid of it before Gov. Cuomo took it away! We are NOTgoing to loose this fight. We have the US Constitution and facts on our side. I'm proud to stand with you Patriots and elated to see so many LEOs proclaiming their allegiance to this Country. Thank you all.
Len

 

[italyguy01]

It will be a cold day in hell before I give up my guns or my 2nd amendment rights. period. My voice is heard to all the politicians every day, via phone, email, and written letters.

 

[Engine 21]

I will give up nothing, period. The United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights are a contract you have between yourself as an American citizen and your government. It is not something to be bartered or given away - it is who we are as a nation. No other country in the world has such a contract with it's citizens. The government is employed by all of us (yes - it has gotten to big!) However, we still vote - albeit not enough of us.

To many men and women have paid for these rights in blood from the Revolutionary War to January 10, 2013. I would not be an American if I gave up these rights and dishonored their sacrifice.

Call me what you will - but call me an American FIRST!!

 

[jag312]

For the anti-gun people in Washington DC, New York, California, and elsewhere. this is what they consider reasonable gun control: the Gun Gestapo will ring your door bell before they kick in your front door to take your guns.

One of my cousins, who I haven't been able to talk to fo several years, has told me what needs to be done to control firearms.

Step 1. All firearms, both antique and modern, in the hands of private citizens are to be confiscated for destruction.

Step 2. All firearms in the hands of law enforcement agencies, from Federal to the local, are to be turned in to the military for destruction.

Step 3. No more new firearms or repair parts for firearms owned by the military.

Step 4. There will now be peace in the world.

Sure she is nuts, but she isn't the only nutty person out there who feels the same way. We may not see anything past Step 1 in our lifetime, but that is what they are going for right now. I know not what course others may take, but as for me; No retreat and no surrender.

 

[Squarebutt]

The problem with "cutting our losses" is that it just leads to more losses. Here in Massachusetts, the legislature permanently adopted the 1994 federal gun ban provisions when it expired nationwide in 2004. We can't buy any new semiauto magazine holding more than 10 rounds, and it's a felony to bring one into the state if it was made since 1994. So all the M&P's the AR15's, Glocks, Sigs, everything, are sold with 10-rounders. On the S&W web site you can find the "MA Compliant" guns, with pinned stocks, no flash hiders or bayonet lugs, etc. To own any kind of gun, you need a license that costs $100 and expires every six years, and the local police chief can yank it any time he wants. Our Attorney General has threatened to sue any company that sells any ammo, powder, primers, bullets, brass or other components by mail or internet into MA, so we either have to travel out of state or be happy with the limited stuff on the shelf here. There's more, but you get the picture.
You'd think the politicians would be satisfied with all those restrictions, right? Not a chance. Every year they file bills to "microstamp" every bullet, to require liability insurance on guns, blah, blah, blah. Luckily we have the Gun Owners Action League lobbying for us, but they can't win them all. This week our governor filed a bill to limit us to one gun purchase a month. They never stop.
If they succeed in Washington with another ban, we can count on more restrictive laws coming down the road as soon as another nutcase does something horrible. We need to draw a line in the sand now. And it's my belief that they understand threats to their power more than reasonable debate. The 1994 ban led to the loss of 55 seats, and turned the Congress over to the other party. Maybe they forgot. Let's remind them.

 

[Rogue686]

I can't believe a "gun owner" is already planning on caving in...we need to hang together, or else we hang separately.

It is this attitude of "cutting our losses" that has already caused us to be brought to this point. You give an inch, they will take a mile.

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting or sporting...only a limitation on an evil, tyrannical government...everyone must read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.

My .02 FRNs.

Rogue

 

[silentflyer]

I have already written our congressman, Mr. Bob Goodlatte (R) the new chairman of the House Judiciary Committe.

 

[Delos]

Depressing

At minimum I see more fees coming. The entire US will be like Chicago where one of the highest crime and homicide rates still exists. (Stay away from the waterfront at night)
Tracking homicides in Chicago - Tracking homicides in Chicago | RedeyeChicago.com

Or a big gun buyback?

When the left wing voters find out how much their taxes are going to go up to buy back all the guns in this country…… And gun owners taxes will go up to so the government can buy his and her guns.

When the administration figures out we are not going to give them up for free only to find out they were then sold to Mexico….. So they could sell them on inner city street corners up here? (At least we will know where to get them back?)

I am still waiting for the cheap electric car I was promised with all the cheap electricity from windmills and solar….

I am waiting for our police action wars to be over as promised….

 

[Delos]

Yup, Nutty Stuff

This is laughable stuff from deranged minds.

Even if only the politicians wanted gun protection.
Even if only the factory owners and store owners wanted armed protection responding to calls or alarms.

Think hard. We have police action wars because nuclear war is unthinkable. Anyone really think we will disarm the police and military, and leave nuclear missiles and nuclear armed submarines to fight our wars. Or germs and chemicals?

Name a country you think has stable leadership. Now look at the countries around it.

Does anyone really believe that once personal guns are gone there will no longer be dysfunctional families and neighborhoods. No more street gangs.

Will we hand out candy bars and shoes to all kids at exactly the same time so no jealousy.

The most peaceful time in modern human history was the Roman Empire. Every place they conquered was required to pay taxes to Rome and not permitted to fight with neighbor cities.

Not to be confused with the later Holy Roman Empire, that as Volta described was Not Holy, Not Roman, and Not an Empire.

For the anti-gun people in Washington DC, New York, California, and elsewhere. this is what they consider reasonable gun control: the Gun Gestapo will ring your door bell before they kick in your front door to take your guns.

One of my cousins, who I haven't been able to talk to fo several years, has told me what needs to be done to control firearms.

Step 1. All firearms, both antique and modern, in the hands of private citizens are to be confiscated for destruction.

Step 2. All firearms in the hands of law enforcement agencies, from Federal to the local, are to be turned in to the military for destruction.

Step 3. No more new firearms or repair parts for firearms owned by the military.

Step 4. There will now be peace in the world.

Sure she is nuts, but she isn't the only nutty person out there who feels the same way. We may not see anything past Step 1 in our lifetime, but that is what they are going for right now. I know not what course others may take, but as for me; No retreat and no surrender.

 

[Freeway]

In 1981 I raised my right hand and swore a oath and it still holds true with me today.

Raised mine in 1982, and still believe in what I swore to uphold and defend.

 

[BCDWYO]

I have already written both my congressman and Sen McCain...haven't heard back from either yet.