AR-Getsome
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^^^^^^ What jimbo & andy said. Use Hoppe's #9 with a soaked patch.
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Melonite, is it really better than chrome lined?
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sgtsandman
US Veteran
Hoppe's #9 is all I use on all my firearms. Cleans everything that shouldn't be there right off. Then Rem Oil for the protection coating.
Granite Stater
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I have a buddy that works in the industry and swears by melonite. When I got my M&P Sport I used it for a year, including a one day class, without cleaning it. I only applied TW25b to lube the bolt and charging handle. No malfunctions and no rust. When I did clean it, finally, it was fairly easy and looks brand new and still shot great, in fact it holds better groups than my duty rifle which is high grade mil spec. This was my own little test to see if I really needed the forward assist. I'm sold on melonite plus, as was said in my M4 armorer class, we tend to do too much cleaning with the ar15 rifles.
Rastoff
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That's just funny right there.
Granite Stater
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Ok, I should have said high priced mil spec rifle. We have since gone to Windham Weaponry and I couldn't be happier. The Town next to us just bought shorty Colts and I'm shaking my head at how much they paid and what they got in return. I'll still put my M&P Sport up against anyone of them.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Now that I can agree with. After working for the Air Force for more than 30 years, I question any mil spec being "high quality". Don't get me wrong, our military has some great stuff. It's just that much of it is over priced and not as good as it should be.
The AR design is such that, even mass produced, it is still a pretty good gun.
Rastoff
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Oh, that's easy; civ H1 is better. It has air conditioning. 
OP
JdubHardin
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Well I finally got the time to run some hoppes run through it and there is no change. I took a close look and it almost seems that the problem area has etched (for lack of better word) it self into the finish. I'm gonna give S&w a call and ask them what they think.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Windham is very good. Operated by the Bushmaster boys from years past before it sold off to Cerberus and then rifles made at a Remington plant. I have one of their rifles from the 90s. Good rifle. According to Yankee Hill Machine, they used to supply parts to Bushmaster back then. I own a Yankee Hill AR too. Small AR world...
As far as milspec... eh... each part or system must be measured on it's own merit for comparison. My Wilson Combat trigger isn't milspec. That's why I bought it.
Arc Angel
Member
Put a little Flitz Paste Metal Polish on a cotton patch. Wrap the patch around either a chamber, or a larger caliber bore brush. Scrub the chamber for a minute, or two. Followup with clean patches.
If you elect to do so you can, then, remove the Carnauba wax left behind by the Flitz polish with several cotton patches soaked in isopropyl alcohol. Again followup with dry patches.
If the gun is going to be stored for awhile I'll coat the bore with Sentry Solutions, 'Tuf-Glide'. If I'm going to be using the gun, again, within the next several months then I use Sentry Solutions, 'Smooth-Kote'*.
I treat all my guns this way. The exteriors are wiped down with either FrogLube, or Ray's Gun Wax (Which is a local legend!) Both FL and Ray's are utterly impervious to water and will stay on the gun for a long long time - Years, in fact; and, although I've heard a lot of good things about, 'Renaissance Wax', I've personally never found anything better for the longterm storage of, 'safe queens'.)
* Bullets hit harder, and barrel cleanup is a breeze! Wear Nitrile or latex gloves whenever you clean a gun; and keep any modern high tech lubricant like Smooth-Kote away from your bare skin. These lubricants belong INSIDE, and not outside the gun - OK.
If you elect to do so you can, then, remove the Carnauba wax left behind by the Flitz polish with several cotton patches soaked in isopropyl alcohol. Again followup with dry patches.
If the gun is going to be stored for awhile I'll coat the bore with Sentry Solutions, 'Tuf-Glide'. If I'm going to be using the gun, again, within the next several months then I use Sentry Solutions, 'Smooth-Kote'*.
I treat all my guns this way. The exteriors are wiped down with either FrogLube, or Ray's Gun Wax (Which is a local legend!) Both FL and Ray's are utterly impervious to water and will stay on the gun for a long long time - Years, in fact; and, although I've heard a lot of good things about, 'Renaissance Wax', I've personally never found anything better for the longterm storage of, 'safe queens'.)
* Bullets hit harder, and barrel cleanup is a breeze! Wear Nitrile or latex gloves whenever you clean a gun; and keep any modern high tech lubricant like Smooth-Kote away from your bare skin. These lubricants belong INSIDE, and not outside the gun - OK.
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Sheepdoggit
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Here's my thoughts on ferritic nitrocarburizing vs. chrome lining in general, as I have recently changed my mind about it.
I think nitrocarburizing is a cost savings measure. I think it's durable and I believe it's easier (cheaper) to make accurate, but I DO NOT believe it's as good as the best chrome lined barrels. That's just my opinion, but this is what I base it on.
I started thinking about it recently when Iraqveteran8888 did his AR-15 meltdown video shooting 830 rounds full-auto. Originally he thought it was a squib, but it ended up merely being that the barrel failed Most of us aren't going to do that and risk blowing a barrel shooting that many rounds that quickly, but it reminds me of why our military uses FN's machinegun barrels which are some proprietary steel blend similar to 4150 that is double thick CHROME LINED. The barrels are very accurate as well. Are they stainless steel accurate? Probably not, but stainless is also more malleable than machine gun/4150 cmv steel.
Ferritic nitrocarburizing is also something like a hundred years old. Although it's been becoming more popular in the firearms industry recently, it's been used in toolmaking even before the military started using chrome lined barrels. If the military thought nitriding and similar processes were superior, they would have been using them. The way I see it it's about spending the time it takes to ensure a CHF 4150 or better steel that is chrome lined is accurate, and that takes processes and quality control efforts that are expensive. Remember when S&W first started using the melonite in their rifles? They were NOT using them for their more expensive guns, they were merely using it in their cheapest sport rifle before they realized it was becoming so popular so they dumped the melonite and 5r riflings in the original sport and started using them in their more expensive rifles.
It's true that nitrocarburizing hardens the surface to a higher extent than 4150 alone or chrome lining, but harder also means more brittle. It's also a very thin barrier of protection; much thinner than quality chrome lining (i.e. FN).
I have a FN CHF chrome lined barrel in my go to rifle. It is very accurate and I feel it's better protection against squibs and overheated barrels either or both came into play. I don't plan on doing any kind of shooting to overheat a barrel like in the video, but I could have a squib after getting the barrel very hot. I don't plan on driving my car over 100 mph either, but I like to know I have the power to do so if need be. The military could have chosen to use nitrocarburization process, but they didn't. I know they cut corners, but I doubt that's one of them.
I'm not an expert, so I am open to other opinions on the subject, but that's what it looks like to me. Never underestimate the profit motives.
I think nitrocarburizing is a cost savings measure. I think it's durable and I believe it's easier (cheaper) to make accurate, but I DO NOT believe it's as good as the best chrome lined barrels. That's just my opinion, but this is what I base it on.
I started thinking about it recently when Iraqveteran8888 did his AR-15 meltdown video shooting 830 rounds full-auto. Originally he thought it was a squib, but it ended up merely being that the barrel failed Most of us aren't going to do that and risk blowing a barrel shooting that many rounds that quickly, but it reminds me of why our military uses FN's machinegun barrels which are some proprietary steel blend similar to 4150 that is double thick CHROME LINED. The barrels are very accurate as well. Are they stainless steel accurate? Probably not, but stainless is also more malleable than machine gun/4150 cmv steel.
Ferritic nitrocarburizing is also something like a hundred years old. Although it's been becoming more popular in the firearms industry recently, it's been used in toolmaking even before the military started using chrome lined barrels. If the military thought nitriding and similar processes were superior, they would have been using them. The way I see it it's about spending the time it takes to ensure a CHF 4150 or better steel that is chrome lined is accurate, and that takes processes and quality control efforts that are expensive. Remember when S&W first started using the melonite in their rifles? They were NOT using them for their more expensive guns, they were merely using it in their cheapest sport rifle before they realized it was becoming so popular so they dumped the melonite and 5r riflings in the original sport and started using them in their more expensive rifles.
It's true that nitrocarburizing hardens the surface to a higher extent than 4150 alone or chrome lining, but harder also means more brittle. It's also a very thin barrier of protection; much thinner than quality chrome lining (i.e. FN).
I have a FN CHF chrome lined barrel in my go to rifle. It is very accurate and I feel it's better protection against squibs and overheated barrels either or both came into play. I don't plan on doing any kind of shooting to overheat a barrel like in the video, but I could have a squib after getting the barrel very hot. I don't plan on driving my car over 100 mph either, but I like to know I have the power to do so if need be. The military could have chosen to use nitrocarburization process, but they didn't. I know they cut corners, but I doubt that's one of them.
I'm not an expert, so I am open to other opinions on the subject, but that's what it looks like to me. Never underestimate the profit motives.
jimbo728
Member
Actually the Melonite process treats the entire barrel after rifleing is complete.
Jim
Plazzman
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I thought the Melonite treatment was done after the rifling was cut.
85V65Sabre
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TANKLEGACY
Member
Melonite..is decent...but ONLY if you are buying QUALITY barrels.
A $80 melonite barrel will most likely be ****...because the manufacturer doesnt prep the barrel 100% before its treated...so any problems with the barrel, will now be there forever.
A $80 melonite barrel will most likely be ****...because the manufacturer doesnt prep the barrel 100% before its treated...so any problems with the barrel, will now be there forever.
Westie1
Member
You can make the same argument about CHF or stainless. Bad mandrel or improper stress relief on the chf, and you have a bad barrel. With chrome lining, any flaw in the bore still exists after the chrome plating. So, it all depends on who makes the barrel, and how good their QC is.
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vonn
US Veteran
wish there was a definitive answer as to the quality of a given barrel. I don't think price is a good indicator but it is about all the average shooter has to go on along with the reputation of the maker. Just have to buy one and shoot it!
shep854
Member
Did anybody watch the video I posted just a couple of days ago where this was discussed by a rep from a company that uses BOTH processes?
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifles/514977-nitride-chrome-q-faxon-rep.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifles/514977-nitride-chrome-q-faxon-rep.html
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