The reports that the military radar picked it up headed west,off the west coast of Malaysia an hour after the transponder quit..Is that even possible without civilian control and the co.knowing about it?
Missing Airliner
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feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Okay, I am low tech, "dont know much about geography", and not that much about politics. When this first happened I thought there was a chance north korea might have shot the plane down to show the world that they are to be feared? However they havent bragged about it. Would it be possible a missile could have brought it down without some entity not seeing it?
Although there is always a chance of terrorists might have pulled this off I kinda doubt it:
Malaysia is a muslim country why would terrorists pick them.
There were few westerners, & only three or four Americans, on board
I believe the majority of the passengers were Chinese, I don't think the terrorist groups want to be rubbing China the wrong way.
It sure is a strange case!
Steve W
Malaysia is a muslim country why would terrorists pick them.
There were few westerners, & only three or four Americans, on board
I believe the majority of the passengers were Chinese, I don't think the terrorist groups want to be rubbing China the wrong way.
It sure is a strange case!
Steve W
Comrad
Member
The Pacific's version of the Bermuda Triangle, The Dragon's Triangle or Devil's Sea. Too far out for radar contact. I spent several years sailing the Bermuda Triangle waters and have seen some funny things.
MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
An interesting idea - North Korea. That is a real possibility as crazy and unpredictable as they have been. One would think the the US, and maybe China, would keep eyes on them 24 hours a day. Of course one (me) could be wrong about that.
Trolley
Moderator This is meant to be half serious and totally funny. I am 100% apolitical.
Thank you.
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I don't think Korea would.Chinas the only friend they have.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
If someone turned the friendly signal it could of been shot down. Which the claimed the friendly transponder was turned off.
I'm thinking it was shot down. Just my only gut feeling. Who shot it? Is a good guess.
I could be wrong. It's just my first thoughts.
I'm thinking it was shot down. Just my only gut feeling. Who shot it? Is a good guess.
I could be wrong. It's just my first thoughts.
Comrad
Member
If it was shot down, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for someone to take responsibility. I smell a wire fault in a gas tank brewing here.
kwselke
Member
When there is no explanation after four days, it's obviously an alien abduction.
I'm just waiting for the first lawsuit to be filed, should happen any day now.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Lets say it WAS shot down and officials knew it! They might try keeping it quiet instead of going to war. Check out this article about the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800. I recall people (not government) claiming they SEEN a missile! I wouldn't put it past our milk toast powers that are, to try and cover up the truth because they dont have the cajoles to fight over a mere 230 souls lost. Didn't HK try this very thing recently?
New Probe Sought for 1996 Airline Disaster Off the Coast of Long Island, N.Y. - NationalJournal.com
New Probe Sought for 1996 Airline Disaster Off the Coast of Long Island, N.Y. - NationalJournal.com
The TWA 800 missile theory has been soundly debunked/disproved every time it's been investigated. It was the most comprehensive aviation crash investigation in history. The cause of the blast was a short in wiring that ran through the center fuel tank. If you're at all inclined to dig deeper, start with a book called "In the Blink of an Eye".
I can't figger...
I just can't figger the plane changing course.
Is it possible that everyone on board was immediately disabled? Was the plane so disabled that all communication was cut off? Could it have made a soft landing and just sunk with nobody able to get out? Can they listen for black box signals?
I just can't figger the plane changing course.
Is it possible that everyone on board was immediately disabled? Was the plane so disabled that all communication was cut off? Could it have made a soft landing and just sunk with nobody able to get out? Can they listen for black box signals?
Harkrader
Member
DC Wilson said: "We need some significantly improved reportage of this incident from people who actually understand geography, flight paths, and the number of miles or kilometers covered during a specific length of flight time."
Sadly, DCW, don't hold your breath. I've been a working aviator since 1967, accumulating 13,000+ hours, most of it in jets and a lot of it flying internationally. I spent the last 17 years of my career as an operations inspector for the FAA and investigated dozens of accidents and assisted on dozens more.
I used to go almost apoplectic over the miss-reporting I saw so many times. Many times, before I worked for FAA, I called WI television stations attempting to correct outrageously erroneous reporting. THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED! They'd made their "report," they'd counted the audience to lure advertisers, and had no interest in accurate reporting or corrections.
One of the most egregious was when Midwest Express Airlines suffered a fatal crash just after takeoff at Mitchell Field Sept 6, 1985. I had landed only a little before the crash and saw the smoke from the north end of the field. A Milwaukee TV station I had volunteered to advise, instead got a person identified as "a private pilot" to sit on camera with a model of the DC-9 aircraft and repeatedly show it rolling over and plunging into the desk in front of him. I did not know the pilots on that flight but I did know other MWE pilots as well as some of the top company officials. Time after time I heard aggravating speculative comments about what happened, and the stations had no interest in corrections.
The Boeing 777 that crashed near Malaysia (maybe) was equipped with a locator beacon and, like the Air France crash into the Atlantic, had on-going data-link with ground stations. Like the Air France crash, it may take considerable time to find significant pieces but, when they are found, experts will analyze them for the information that will determine what happened. Note: "what happened" is not "probably cause," as found by the NTSB. Determining that could take years.
Sadly, DCW, don't hold your breath. I've been a working aviator since 1967, accumulating 13,000+ hours, most of it in jets and a lot of it flying internationally. I spent the last 17 years of my career as an operations inspector for the FAA and investigated dozens of accidents and assisted on dozens more.
I used to go almost apoplectic over the miss-reporting I saw so many times. Many times, before I worked for FAA, I called WI television stations attempting to correct outrageously erroneous reporting. THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED! They'd made their "report," they'd counted the audience to lure advertisers, and had no interest in accurate reporting or corrections.
One of the most egregious was when Midwest Express Airlines suffered a fatal crash just after takeoff at Mitchell Field Sept 6, 1985. I had landed only a little before the crash and saw the smoke from the north end of the field. A Milwaukee TV station I had volunteered to advise, instead got a person identified as "a private pilot" to sit on camera with a model of the DC-9 aircraft and repeatedly show it rolling over and plunging into the desk in front of him. I did not know the pilots on that flight but I did know other MWE pilots as well as some of the top company officials. Time after time I heard aggravating speculative comments about what happened, and the stations had no interest in corrections.
The Boeing 777 that crashed near Malaysia (maybe) was equipped with a locator beacon and, like the Air France crash into the Atlantic, had on-going data-link with ground stations. Like the Air France crash, it may take considerable time to find significant pieces but, when they are found, experts will analyze them for the information that will determine what happened. Note: "what happened" is not "probably cause," as found by the NTSB. Determining that could take years.
Comrad
Member
Then there's the Payne Stewart Lear Jet crash...sudden loss of cabin pressure, oxygen depravation almost instant unconsciousness. If that plane passed over Indonesia there is nothing but water between there and Antarctica.
I have been feeling oxygen-depraved for a number of years, now.
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Comrad
Member
J. R. WEEMS
Member
I cannot confirm this- but there seems to be a report from a British paper that there have been calls to the phones of passengers and the phones ring, but no pick up-- if true, this means it didn't go down in water, so it went down in the jungle somewhere and all were lost, or all the phones are in a bag/box -- being held by hi-jackers-- If true, why haven't we heard about it over here?? But then again, you could write volumes about what we don't hear, or what is misreported by the media here. 
be it news or the truth about firearms- 
be it news or the truth about firearms-
kwselke
Member
I cannot confirm this- but there seems to be a report from a British paper that there have been calls to the phones of passengers and the phones ring, but no pick up-- if true, this means it didn't go down in water, so it went down in the jungle somewhere and all were lost, or all the phones are in a bag/box -- being held by hi-jackers-- If true, why haven't we heard about it over here?? But then again, you could write volumes about what we don't hear, or what is misreported by the media here.
Turn your cell phone off and call it from another phone. You will hear rings on the phone making the call, but no ring on the phone that is turned off.
Poor guy
I feel for this man's father. If there's no proof that nothing broke on the airplane (whether they have the plane or not) it's going to be 'pilot error'.
I feel for this man's father. If there's no proof that nothing broke on the airplane (whether they have the plane or not) it's going to be 'pilot error'.
rojodiablo
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The catching of an explosion on radar is a possibility, but not a certainty. When talking about long range radar, it's update time is based on the speed of the radome swing. It's often possible to see something, lose it for a pass, and then re-acquire it on the next pass. In a private jet I was a passenger/ guest of the owner, and we would watch things on his radar; not really that much more complex then ship radar. It saw most things very clearly, but it was not immune to the same features that hamper all radar systems, STC clutter, rain, the like.
Today was radio call in speculation day! Lots of ideas, and some plausible. As to terrorism, it's not ruled out by me, with the exception of someone claiming the bagging of the bird. (OBL was quite proud to say he brought down the twin towers. Hezbollah, etc. let folks know they did the dirty work.)
Another possibility would be a form of terrorism, which would be more like economic/ industrial terror. Evidently, some computer system folks on board. Could, would someone want them gone..... or possibly they were carrying some data chips that are now kitty litter on the ocean floor?
My leanings are not on the idea of hostage/ hijacking. There would have been emergency signals sent when the cockpit was assaulted. Even if they got the plane, and even if they sent it to the bottom or blew it up- if they went for the cockpit, the world would have known. So maybe it was just blown up....
My personal thoughts? If there was mechanical problems, from any possible kind, the possibility of a loss of cabin pressure at height would have given them the Paine Stewart demise. Cabin frozen almost instantly, the plane could venture on, there would be no contact with the pilot-cicle, and then with further flight malfunctions, the plane would fall silently from view, never to be seen again.
We should keep in mind that while some folks were flying on false papers, a LOT of people want to leave China, Malaysia, and a hundred other places and can not easily get an export visa or a travel visa. So they use fake identities to get out and start something in a new place. It's not always a nefarious reason why a person uses a fake ID.
M3Stuart
Member
My 2 cents: I don't think the plane crashed. I think it was stolen and flown somewhere.
IMHO: the Malaysian military 'lost' it because it flew out of their range and they were the only ones watching it.
If you'll recall from the earliest reports; the U.S. Orion was NEVER looking to the north, it was only ever searching where the Malaysian military lost it on the west side of the peninsula. The U.S. military doesn't look for something in less than 300 feet of water for 3 days and NOT find it. By now it's in Iran, Sri Lanka, Somalia, or somewhere like that.
FWIW: I flew Malaysia airways six times in the three weeks before this happened. My last flight on MH was KL to Tokyo a few days before this happened. My flight left at 11:45pm local time. That flight to Beijing (12:41am IIRC), like mine to Tokyo, is a night "sleeper" flight. You get on that plane, put your eye cover and earplugs in and go to sleep. Well, you try to anyway. If it changed course, nobody may have noticed - the lights are out, everybody's trying to sleep or watching movies.
I don't think a plane like that can crash without giving off signals from the ELT's etc. Also, I thought they were awfully quick to discount the Iranian-fake-passport guys as; "...well, they're just trying to emigrate illegally to Europe..."
Again, IMHO; that plane will 'magically reappear' with a full tank of gas (and hopefully nothing more lethal) and it will hit something - probably in Asia (Russia or Israel would be my guess) - somewhere where they're not expecting it. The U.S. would pick it up and shoot it down - so I'm not worried for us.
2 more cents: I know the range on those is colossal because I was just on a 777-200ER that flew from Tokyo to Dallas. In January I was in a 777-200ER that flew from Dubai to Dallas.
Soooooo, why develop a long range missile when you can just steal a plane and deliver a 'payload' with it?
I hope I'm wrong.
IMHO: the Malaysian military 'lost' it because it flew out of their range and they were the only ones watching it.
If you'll recall from the earliest reports; the U.S. Orion was NEVER looking to the north, it was only ever searching where the Malaysian military lost it on the west side of the peninsula. The U.S. military doesn't look for something in less than 300 feet of water for 3 days and NOT find it. By now it's in Iran, Sri Lanka, Somalia, or somewhere like that.
FWIW: I flew Malaysia airways six times in the three weeks before this happened. My last flight on MH was KL to Tokyo a few days before this happened. My flight left at 11:45pm local time. That flight to Beijing (12:41am IIRC), like mine to Tokyo, is a night "sleeper" flight. You get on that plane, put your eye cover and earplugs in and go to sleep. Well, you try to anyway. If it changed course, nobody may have noticed - the lights are out, everybody's trying to sleep or watching movies.
I don't think a plane like that can crash without giving off signals from the ELT's etc. Also, I thought they were awfully quick to discount the Iranian-fake-passport guys as; "...well, they're just trying to emigrate illegally to Europe..."
Again, IMHO; that plane will 'magically reappear' with a full tank of gas (and hopefully nothing more lethal) and it will hit something - probably in Asia (Russia or Israel would be my guess) - somewhere where they're not expecting it. The U.S. would pick it up and shoot it down - so I'm not worried for us.
2 more cents: I know the range on those is colossal because I was just on a 777-200ER that flew from Tokyo to Dallas. In January I was in a 777-200ER that flew from Dubai to Dallas.
Soooooo, why develop a long range missile when you can just steal a plane and deliver a 'payload' with it?
I hope I'm wrong.
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That airplane was shot down.
It wouldn't surprise me if this one wasn't as well.
Everyone was "in the mens room".
BobC357
Member
The Federal Register has something interesting to say the least. I am NOT suggesting this is what happened but just the concept is a bit unnerving...
Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized Internal Access
bit.ly
I'll stick with the essential 6 thank you.
Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized Internal Access
bit.ly
I'll stick with the essential 6 thank you.
I told my wife the exact same thing this evening
On his show Tuesday night, Bill O'Reilly laid out what must have happened logically and succinctly...
The transponder was turned off....who had the ability to do that? Only someone who was in control of the airplane.
The airliner changed course after the transponder was turned off...who would have been able to do that? Again, only someone who was in control of the airplane.
No Mayday or distress calls while this is going on...how can that be possible, unless what is happening is no accident?
Wherever that airliner is right now, it's pretty clear that it didn't explode in mid-flight, and it was being flown by someone who didn't want to broadcast what was happening...
The transponder was turned off....who had the ability to do that? Only someone who was in control of the airplane.
The airliner changed course after the transponder was turned off...who would have been able to do that? Again, only someone who was in control of the airplane.
No Mayday or distress calls while this is going on...how can that be possible, unless what is happening is no accident?
Wherever that airliner is right now, it's pretty clear that it didn't explode in mid-flight, and it was being flown by someone who didn't want to broadcast what was happening...
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