Model 10-5 DAO - Spurless

[Crookedcreek]

Thinking seriously at picking up a Model 10-5, spurless hammer, 2" barrel, square frame, Magnas. Hammer is case hardened, so not 'bobbed' afterward. Since it is 'original' (?) DAO, do the 'internals' differ from DA/SA parts, or are they the same, just can't 'cock' the hammer? Serial number D2909XX appears to put it at a 1969 make date (?). I'm guessing the hammer and trigger could have been replaced afterwards, along with an action job...the DA pull is excellent (didn't get to weigh it though). Everything is tight and smooth, just honest blue wear on 'corners' and typical stock wear/dings. Can get it for under $500....sound?

 

[Alk8944]

If it is a true DAO then the hammer cannot be cocked, there is no full cock notch on the hammer. Other than there being no full cock notch on the hammer the internals are identical between SA/DA and DAO.

Removing the hammer spur does not make a revolver DAO, just takes a different technique to cock it.

 

[Shotguncoach]

If it is a factory DAO, I believe that the only internal difference is that the hammer does not have the single action sear. There are some pictures floating around the forum that show the differences in that area of the hammer. Search for 'DAO hammer' and you should find them. An aftermarket conversion could range from factory duplication to just grinding off the hammer spur, but your comment about the case hardening makes it sound original.

I try to buy K-frames under $400 when I can (don't we all? ) but the $400 to $500 range isn't bad if it's in good shape and it speaks to you.

Are you wanting to convert it back to SA/DA?

 

[Crookedcreek]

If it is a true DAO then the hammer cannot be cocked, there is no full cock notch on the hammer. Other than there being no full cock notch on the hammer the internals are identical between SA/DA and DAO.

Removing the hammer spur does not make a revolver DAO, just takes a different technique to cock it.

I did not attempt to 'catch' the hammer with my off hand thumb while pulling the trigger in DA, to see if it had a single action sear. Hence, my question if it's a true DAO, does that sear 'not exist', or are the parts the same and you just can't cock it with your thumb? Also, it brought to my mind, if true DAO, is the hammer 'throw' shorter than on a DA/SA part set up. The lighter 'than normal(?) DA pull weight makes me suspect someone has done some 'work' on it to make it so nice. From the excellent condition color casing on both hammer and trigger, it's obvious the hammer spur has not been 'cut/ground' off...the part started that way. I know Smith did offer 'spurless hammers' as an option, just didn't (don't) know if the only difference in the internal/external configuration is the lack of the spur(?).
I'm tempted to buy the thing (it feels that nice) if the price sounds about right(?).

 

[Crookedcreek]

If it is a factory DAO, I believe that the only internal difference is that the hammer does not have the single action sear. There are some pictures floating around the forum that show the differences in that area of the hammer. Search for 'DAO hammer' and you should find them. An aftermarket conversion could range from factory duplication to just grinding off the hammer spur, but your comment about the case hardening makes it sound original.

I try to buy K-frames under $400 when I can (don't we all? ) but the $400 to $500 range isn't bad if it's in good shape and it speaks to you.

Are you wanting to convert it back to SA/DA?

Thanks for the info, I'll do some searching. I'm sure the 'parts' are original, just not sure if they were 'added' afterwards as part of an action job/rebuild.
No, I would not convert it 'back' to DA/SA...it's just too nice the way it is. It did 'speak to me', and the blue wear and stock dings are minimal and does not 'offend', just honest use and care, everything is 'tight and smooth'. So, mid $400's is 'normal'?

 

[Shotguncoach]

For a DAO snubby in good shape, I’d be happy at mid $400’s. That’s a bit high for a standard K frame (for me) but you’ve got some desirable features there. Go for it and send us pictures…

 

[alwslate]

A matter of preference. I do basically 100% of my shooting with a variety of K frame .38 sps single action aimed shots. I would pass on any model 10 that was DAO.

 

[Crookedcreek]

For a DAO snubby in good shape, I’d be happy at mid $400’s. That’s a bit high for a standard K frame (for me) but you’ve got some desirable features there. Go for it and send us pictures…

If I get it, I'll get some additional photos, for now it can be seen here. When it opens, hit the + button for a closer look:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-conten...384485_01_10_5_offered_by_crown_guns_1024.jpg

 

[Bald1]

OP , I’ve got the same gun you speak of. I bought it a few months ago. It came with very nice (looked new) magnas. I purchased some Moose antler grips from a fellow member here. This gun didn’t just speak to me it serenaded me. Mine is not DAO. It can be cocked. The 64 in pic is in fact DAO.

 

[Crookedcreek]

OP , I’ve got the same gun you speak of. I bought it a few months ago. It came with very nice (looked new) magnas. I purchased some Moose antler grips from a fellow member here. This gone didn’t just speak to me it serenaded me. Mine is not DAO. It can be cocked. The 64 in pic is in fact DAO.

I know what you mean, and the longer the song plays, the stronger the 'tug'!
There is just something 'cool' about the smaller grips made 'larger' with the adapters....I guess some just don't get it! It seems as though the adapters are not so easy to come by now-a-days.
Your two are very nice...well done!

 

[The Kid]

The hammer on the one in the link posted looks like it has had the spur ground off. The resulting rear face is at a different angle and lacks the “step” the factory DAO hammers had, as shown in the revolvers in the pictures in the following post.

I would posit that a skilled gunsmith did an action job and removed the spur. A very passable job of replicating the CCH colors can be done with a technique using cold blue.

Either way, nice gun at a pretty good price.

 

[Crookedcreek]

The hammer on the one in the link posted looks like it has had the spur ground off. The resulting rear face is at a different angle and lacks the “step” the factory DAO hammers had, as shown in the revolvers in the pictures in the following post.

I would posit that a skilled gunsmith did an action job and removed the spur. A very passable job of replicating the CCH colors can be done with a technique using cold blue.

Either way, nice gun at a pretty good price.

I noticed the missing 'step', thought it might have been different 'generations' may have had different shapes (my inexperience shining through!). You may be right on the skilled gunsmith, as the work is excellent and the trigger is very nice, I may see if I can get a scale on it. Alas, there is no provenance of any work that might have or has been performed. Not a big deal for me either way, as it looks and feels good in my hands, and I guess that's what it's all about anyway.

 

[413Maxwedge]

K-frames had a factory-bobbed hammer available as an option until the late '80's. I bought a NOS bobbed hammer for my 10-7 from Jack First a while ago, but haven't installed it yet (the case hardening has an ugly brownish color instead of the pretty "oil slick" colors I'm used to).

I also purchased a model 64 snub that came with a bobbed stainless hammer that appears to be a S&W piece. It looks like the bobbed 64 above, without the "step" but the finish is even and beautiful all over it. If not original, the gunsmith did an excellent job shaping and bead blasting / tumbling it. I put it on my stubby m10 when I saw how ugly the case hardened one looked.

 

[Crookedcreek]

I also purchased a model 64 snub that came with a bobbed stainless hammer that appears to be a S&W piece. It looks like the bobbed 64 above, without the "step" but the finish is is even and beautiful all over it. If not original, the gunsmith did an excellent job shaping and bead blasting / tumbling it. I put it on my stubby m10 when I saw how ugly the case hardened one looked.

I like the contrasting silver colors, whose cylinder release? Whose stocks...round butt? I actually like the 'no step hammer' looks better than the factory hammer. To me, the step looks like they didn't quite finish the 'bobbing job'. The 'flow' is better on the no step job(IMO). Yours is one nice looking snubby!

P.S. The cylinder release looks like the 'old style' TK Custom, but I don't see it in their current offerings(?).

 

[413Maxwedge]

Thanks! I customize/part swap most of my guns but keep all the original parts for the next owner. In that picture: the grips are Hogue Bantam boot grips. The cylinder release is a modern S&W k/l frame piece. The trigger is a S&W k/l in stainless, and the hammer came with a 64 I bought.

 

[Crookedcreek]

Got to handle it again today. It is not DAO, it has the SA sear and, with a little 'synchronous' use of finger of one hand on trigger and thumb of other hand on rearward moving hammer, it can be SA cocked. The double action pull on a Lyman digital gauge averaged 6 pounds even. The condition in hand is better than the posted Arms List photo appears.

 

[Bald1]

So did u buy it? Offer $400 and wait for counter. Shake hands at $425. Good price for a short barrel K frame.

 

[Crookedcreek]

So did u buy it? Offer $400 and wait for counter. Shake hands at $425. Good price for a short barrel K frame.

Not yet, visit got cut short, Wife was in the car and set off the alarm....beginning to have memory/confusion issues (I think she accidentally hit the fob 'panic button'). So, I took her home. I'll return again. Actually, I had a rifle in there a couple of weeks ago for trade. They wanted it but 'bid' lower than I wanted. They have a Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced (don't say it!) that is one of the 'good ones' made in Ilion, NY (when they were still the 'real Remington') with forged steel frame and slide. If it were a 'Huntsville' gun, I likely would not be interested. I already have an R1 Carry from Ilion, and it is nice. While I had my Lyman digital trigger scale there today, I also put it on the R1....3.0 pound average! Anyway, the rifle I had in to trade, what they were willing to give me would take care of both the M-10-5 and the Remington, so I may just accept a little less than I had originally wanted. Sorry for the long story! Hopefully all will end well.

 

[Bald1]

Good luck.

 

[Crookedcreek]

So did u buy it? Offer $400 and wait for counter. Shake hands at $425. Good price for a short barrel K frame.

Good luck.

Well, I ended up with a three gun deal! The 10-5, a 637-2, and the Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced....I'm happy! The 10-5 is in better shape than showed on the gun list photo, only blue wear is on the front of the cylinder, likely holster caused.

P.S. Question on the 637-2 Airweight. The hammer and trigger are color cased, does that mean it is 'pre-MIM' parts? S.N. is CJA015X, any idea on year made? You can see it has 'the lock'!