Model 10 - First Handloads

[film495]

going to take a crack at my first handloading. ordered some Speer Bullets 38 Caliber (358 Diameter) 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter, and some Win 231 powder. I have an old Hodgdon manual from 79 that lists min and max loads as 2.7 and 3.7. The current Hodgdon website lists for LSWC the same powder as 3.1 and 3.7 …

anyway, was trying to work out what I should try as my first loads, or should I make a variety with some small variations?

For a Model 10-7 with 4" tapered barrel

 

[DanWales]

Depends on what you want out of the load. I shoot 231 & Titegroup at 3.2. for 25 yd everday shooting. Very low recoil fun to shoot aren't straining the pistol or me in the least.
I might add it also saves a lot of powder Each gun and person are a little bit different but this works very well for me and is accurate.

Dan

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

WW231 & 158 LSWC is a great combo. I would say you will love anything in the 3.1 to 3.5 area. Start with 25 of a load in that area (I would say 3.1 for starters), decide how you like it and load 25 more, either of the same or 2 tenths more or 2 tenths less. Something in that area is bound to satisfy you!

Ivan

 

[Wise_A]

I would make 10-25 at your chosen starting load and see how they do--I'd go with 3.1. A 158-gr LSWC and HP-38 is a solid combination, and .38 Spl is easy to load, but I suppose anything that can happen will happen eventually.

Take the first cartridge off the press and save it as a memento.

 

[sheppard]

In the Winchester reloading manuals of about 10 years ago the max standard load for the 158 grain bullet and 231 was 4,5 grains. The plus P load was 4.7grains.

My load for 231/HP38 and the 158 grain swaged lead bullet has been 4.3 grains for years.

 

[olskool]

I like unique. with a 158 lead 4gr. is a good load,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[stansdds]

The Speer lead bullets are a soft, swaged lead bullet. I would not drive them more than 800 fps. Even at 800 fps, expect some leading in the barrel. With W231/HP38, charge weight somewhere around 3 grains is probably going to give you an accurate load and little leading.

 

[film495]

Well, what I'm looking to do is have just a basic easy to shoot range load. Low recoil, fun to shoot. There is also keeping costs down. I'd like to get to the point where I have a good range load I like, and then I can go shoot 200 or 300 rounds at some targets - and with the range fee I won't be spending $150 between ammo and range cost - I'll be spending $15 for an hour of range time, and that will likely get me to the range more frequently. So, a basic trip would be 200 .38 Special in the Model 10. As many rounds as I feel like in a Ruger MK2 Standard, and eventually some rounds out of a Winchester 94, just because.

My Dad also reloaded and I'll be using some of his equipment, press etc. So, to keep it simple as this is my first adventure into reloading - I'm just going to focus on the .38 Special, but eventually there are some additional calibers that might get added to the list. 30-30, .222, 30-06, Colt .45 … my Dad didn't shoot .38 Special I added that to my own collection as a starter revolver for me. Dad seemed to have mostly reloaded for the .222 and .45, those must have been the ones he liked the most. I'd like to make a plinking load for the 30-30 Lever Gun next probably - at .70 a round for factory ammo, just not going to enjoy throwing that much $$ down range.

I'm sure I'll be pretty OCD about loading, so - once I have a .38 Load, that will be it, I'll have a way I make it - standard process, standard components - and once I've done that several times, might consider adding the 30-30 to my skillset. Although, I also have a .32 ACP CZ-70 I like to shoot, so - maybe that will be next … focus Mike focus, just do the .38 Special … too much to think about .. KISS

 

[mikld]

I believe the Speer lead bullets are swaged (soft) and may lead to some unnecessary problems (leading, accuracy). I normally suggest the "easiest" loads for a new reloader, in this case jacketed 158 gr bullet. Shape/type doesn't matter at first, RN/FMJ are pretty accurate, JHP JSP, etc, are simple, straight forward to load. I used a lot of W231 for my 38 Specials (started reloading 38s in '69) and it works well. Begin with the suggested starting load, I would go with the most current, and if necessary work up. Don't try to "hot rod" the 38 Special as it's a very forgiving and easy to load/shoot cartridge (if you need more power, get a 357). If I were to use the swaged bullet, I'd use minimum loads (whenever there is a "conflict" with load data, go with the lightest/lowest loads).

One hint; My Rule #1, Pay little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, good intended friend, pet loads website or gun shop guru, at least for the first 10,000 rounds you reload. I suggest getting load data from published reloading manuals (and some from powder websites). I started with a Lee instruction sheet/load sheet and very soon got a manual (Speer #10?), now, over 35 years later 97% of all the new data I get is from published reloading manuals and because I keep good records of every load, I can just go to my records for load data that I have used....

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...

 

[film495]

I have a bunch of manuals. Next to me is a Speer #9 and a Hodgdon's Number 23; and a 2 foot high stack of more in my basement. What I do like about hearing what other people do for loading is it is a sanity check .. hearing the numbers that I'm reading from others confirms I'm at least reading the manuals correctly.

I'll probably load 3.2 grains - and try it and go from there. Just looking for an easy to shoot, reliable, fun target round. Sounds like I'm on the right track.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

With those bullets, W231 and CCI-500 primers you can load a 50 round box for $6.28.

I see no reason to use such an expensive bullet. 158gr LSWC bullets from Missouri Bullets will cost you only $35/500 and drop that 50 round box to only $5.48.

I'm using older components and a box costs me just over $3.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Your model 10 has fixed sights.With the 158gr,I'd bet my mother in law's purse(don't laugh,she is very rich)3.2gr of 231 will print pretty close to where your sights look.If it shoots low,decrease by 1 or 2 tenths of a grain,the opposite if it shoots high.
Have fun with it!

 

[alwslate]

My Speer #13 manual lists loads of 231 with their 158 gr lead SWC of
3.8 min and 4.3 max. In my experience with 231 and 158 gr cast SWCs
3.8 - 4.0 grs is a great std load. 3.2 grs of 231 is just too light and will
result in poor loads with low pressure and erratic velocities. 231 needs
at least a little chamber pressure to burn well.

 

[film495]

My Speer #13 manual lists loads of 231 with their 158 gr lead SWC of
3.8 min and 4.3 max. In my experience with 231 and 158 gr cast SWCs
3.8 - 4.0 grs is a great std load. 3.2 grs of 231 is just too light and will
result in poor loads with low pressure and erratic velocities. 231 needs
at least a little chamber pressure to burn well.

The current Hodgdon's website lists those loads for the
158 GR. HDY XTP

for the LSWC they list
3.1-3.7

an old Speer #9 I have lists the starting load at 2.7 and max 3.7

 

[alwslate]

Hodgdon's data is all over the place and is the most inconsistent and
least reliable of all. A lot of their data is simply copied from other manuals
and with only the lighter loads listed. If you insist on loading ultra light
squib loads of around 550-600 fps in the .38 spl case with lots of air space and pressures of only around half of the 17,000 psi std pressure
limit go right ahead. You can learn the hard way like I did. Lessons so
learned stick with you longer.

 

[alwslate]

The current Hodgdon's website lists those loads for the
158 GR. HDY XTP

for the LSWC they list
3.1-3.7

an old Speer #9 I have lists the starting load at 2.7 and max 3.7

That's odd? Just checked my old Speer #9, dated 1974 BTW and
it doesn't list any loads with 231 powder. Only loads with 230
which was 231's predecessor. Oh well.

 

[austintexas]

range fees

FYI, instead of paying $15.00 an hour, check with the range owner if they have an annual rate. I belong to a local gun club with its own range, our dues are $150.00 a year and the local per hour indoor and outdoor ranges here charge about $350.00 a year annual rate. sounds high but that's about 23 hours at $15.00. When I go to the range I make a day of it. 9am to about 3 in the afternoon and at $15.00 an hour is a lot if I go once a week.
SWCA 892

 

[film495]

That's odd? Just checked my old Speer #9, dated 1974 BTW and
it doesn't list any loads with 231 powder. Only loads with 230
which was 231's predecessor. Oh well.

you're right - I was looking at an old Hodgdon's manual, the Speer didn't list it.

Haven't loaded anything yet, so - it can change. The reason I posted here was to get real world experience from people who've done it, or have more experience than I do.

The Hodgdon's website lists 3.1 at 782 fps and 3.7 at 834

 

[film495]

I looked at this again after loading a box of 50 with Winchester 231 at 3.3 grains. the Hodgdon's website lists for hard cast - at 3.1-3-7, but the Speer LSWC bullets I got are not hard cast. So, I looked it up on Speer's website and they list the start load at 3.8 for Win 231, but also 3.6 for HP-38 which is the same powder, so that is odd. An old Hodgdon's manual I have lists 2.7 grains of HP-38 as the start load.

So, technically I'm 3/10ths of a grain light from the bullet manufacturers spec on the starting load. The variation in the manuals I have goes from 2.7 to 3.8 for the starting load. Granted the 2.7 is probably from a 40ish year old Hodgdon's manual, but - that's a pretty wild swing. Since Speer lists 2 different start loads for HP-38 and Win 231, that really makes me call into question all of their data since that is supposed to be the exact same powder just with a different label on the can.

The start load listed by Speer of 3.8, is higher than the max load listed by Hodgdon of 3.7 … So, it is impossible to shoot this bullet with this powder and not be outside the load specs listed by either the bullet or powder manufacturers specs. You have to be either high on one or low on the other.

 

[film495]

3.8-4.3 Speer LSWC - 158 Grain, Winchester 231
from Speer Website
3.6-4.1 Speer LSWC - 158 Grain, HP-38
also from Speer Website

Hodgdon's lists similar loads for jacketed bullets, but lower for hard cast lead.