model 19 use of 38 special ammo

[farandfine]

Hello, I have an ignorant, but, hopefully, not stupid question that I hope some of you may be able to answer for me or advise me on.

It's my impression that the primary cause of the cracking (in the 6 o'clock position) of the forcing cone on a Model 19 (when it happens) is the use of lighter weight, and hence shorter, bullets which result in excessive "flame" and concomitant erosion on the forcing cone area...please forgive an old man's blank as to what to properly call the excess ignition gases that proceed before a shorter projectile.

If this impression is true, would not the same situation of erosion and possible cracking of the forcing cone obtain if one shot mostly 38 Special rounds in a 19?

Or perhaps the lighter, shorter round explanation of premature
damage to the 19's forcing cone is flawed/wrong?

Anyway, I hope this question makes some sense and that some of you with experience with 19s may take the time to comment.

Cheers,
John

 

[Fishinfool]

With no hard data to back it up, I would guess the lower powder volume and pressures in a 38 spl, as apposed to a full strength magnum load with the same bullet would make a difference in forcing cone erosion / cracking. The issue, though not really common, is real. I have seen several 19's and 66's with this problem, and the one thing they all had in common is extensive use of 125 grain magnum loads.

Larry

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

It is the combination of the light bullets at magnum pressures and velocity that causes the damage. Mucho hot gasses causes the erosion.

 

[Arik]

38 is much lower pressure. You would eventually get kinda similar results but we're talking A LOT of ammo.....like a lifetime worth. By the way it takes a lot to do it with 357. Even more with 38

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[apollo99]

To the OP what you are referring to is called flame cutting, it occurs to the portion of the top strap that is at 12 o'clock of the forcing cone / cylinder gap. This condition also effects the forcing cone. As said by previous posters, it is from hi-pressure magnum loads usually in the 125 and 110 grain bullets. While the ballistics on 125 grain bullets are pretty good for self defense, shooting a lot of them will cause damage in time. I shoot 158gr JHP in my .357 magnums, but I do carry 125 grain for self defense, I carry them much more than shoot them. As far as .38 spl and 38 spl.+P , they should be no problem at any bullet weight.

 

[Ashlander]

Excellent question and excellent answers. I just want to welcome John to the fold.

Cheers, Ashlander

 

[farandfine]

Hello,

My thanks to all of you who took the time to reply. Your advice seems to be unanimous which is a bonus.

Thank you! Thank you!

Cheers,
John

 

[kennyb]

look forward to hearing more from you john

 

[Targets Guy]

Indeed, welcome to the forum. Interesting thread.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

The question has been already answered here so here's my take on it. They are not making the "classic" old M-19's anymore, they are really a beautifully made revolver and I for one don't want to beat up mine with Magnum ammo. They made the L frame for a reason and that's what I use for magnum loads along with the N frame. I shoot what I call mid range loads, call em a bit more than the .38 Special +P to conserve these fantastic revolvers. We may not see their kind produced again.

 

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! I virtually never shoot .357 rounds in my magnum guns. I can if the need arises, or feel the urge. Bob

 

[rwt1405]

Welcome John, and the only stupid question, is the one unasked.

 

[blasterp7]

To the OP what you are referring to is called flame cutting, it occurs to the portion of the top strap that is at 12 o'clock of the forcing cone / cylinder gap. This condition also effects the forcing cone. As said by previous posters, it is from hi-pressure magnum loads usually in the 125 and 110 grain bullets. While the ballistics on 125 grain bullets are pretty good for self defense, shooting a lot of them will cause damage in time. I shoot 158gr JHP in my .357 magnums, but I do carry 125 grain for self defense, I carry them much more than shoot them. As far as .38 spl and 38 spl.+P , they should be no problem at any bullet weight.

Absolutely great analysis and worthy of consideration - thanks

 

[Steely85]

As a side note, bevel based bullets do no one any favors either.

 

[TheoW]

Feeding a Model 19

My model19-3 is fed thus:
>357 Magnum Brass
>148 gr.38 hollow base lead wadcutter seated flush
>3.5gr Bullseye
Your 19=3 will love you!

all the best,Ted

 

[dcopper]

John

Welcome to the forum from Arkansas! Great question, and as usual a veritable plethora of good information. These guys know, or can find any information you may desire Smith and Wesson and or other brands. Again Welcome!

Regards
Larry

 

[OLDSTER]

Welcome to the forum from North Dakota

 

[farandfine]

Thank you all

What a very pleasant welcome to the forum! Thank you all very much!

Cheers,
John

 

[farandfine]

Oh yes, I meant to mention

Hello, I meant to mention that my original question was based upon the fact that I don't want to shoot 357 magnums in a recently acquired 19-2...just as I don't shoot +Ps in my 37-2 even though it's rated for them. Neither my elderly hands nor wrists care for that sort of battering. Why did I not get a Model 10 then? Aesthetics quite simply: I like the look of the 19 with its barrel underlug and raised rear sights.

Might also mention that in my dotage, I'm basically a trap shooter and what I don't know about pistols would fill several books.

Cheers,
John

 

[Engine49guy]

IIRC the Model 19 was designed using the old 158 grain .357 Magnum loads, a bit later the 125 grain and 110 grain loads became the fad and cracked forcing cones began to surface.

While not 100% sure of the technical reasons my caveman brain grasps it this way :
The heavier 158 grain bullet accelerated at a set speed where by the time it made the "jump" to the barrel the majority of gunpowder had already been burned,
I might be wrong but it would stand to reason that a lighter bullet would accelerate faster and make the "Jump" a bit sooner and those hot expanding gasses then cracked the Combat Magnums at its weakest spot in the 6 "O" clock position where the barrel is thinnest .

Im sure there is a bit more to it than that but this is just how my brain grasps it.
PS the .38 special at 800 fps is a very different round power and pressure wise than a .357 moving at 1300+ fps