Model 41 Dry Fire

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rimfireshooter

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I accidentally dry fired my model 41 at the range, as the slide did not lock back on an empty chamber and I thought I was not done shooting. Will the one time hurt it?
 
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Unless it's changed recently Smith & Wesson does not recommended dry firing it's .22s
Realistically the firing pin should not hit the chamber but it can and does on some guns.
This continued hitting distorts the chamber which can lead to feed and ejection issues.
One instance of dry fire, 10 or possibly even100 might not hurt. I myself do not dryfire 22s however it occurs and sometimes cannot be helped. I always leave my 22s cocked. Myself I would rather risk spring compression (very unlikely) than firing pin hitting the chamber
(Possible).
Recently here a kit gun has been advertised forsale. With two distinct indents on the cylinder where the hammer has struck between the chamber's.
 
take a loupe and look at the upper rim of the chamber, if no indent, all good.
 
Whether it did or didn't do damage doesn't matter, can't do anything about it now. It's a .22 that you don't stake your life on (hopefully). The worst that could happen is that it breaks, and you have to go in your range bag for another pistol to shoot that day.

All of that said, I'm in the "you didn't hurt it a bit" camp.
 
One dry fire should not hurt your 41 at all. Just shoot it and as long as it is functioning ok, forget about it.
 
This issue comes up often. No "modern" rimfire is designed so that the firing pin can strike the chamber when no cartridge is present. I seem to recall a thread on the Model 41 that discussed some being shipped with too-long firing pins, but I think that was a long time ago, and, presumably, those guns were fixed.

The only real danger from dry-firing a "modern" rimfire (or a centerfire for that matter) is firing pin breakage, and that is a very remote possibility on most guns.

My 65-year-old Model 41 has been dry-fired hundreds of times, and the chamber and firing pin are still as new. Forget about it.
 
Dry firing a S&W M41 (or any rimfire pistol) is not a good idea because of the metal on metal hit. Done enough times malformations will occur and will eventually screw up your pistol.

A single accidental dry fire event should not cause any issues as long as it is a rare occurrence. I doubt there is any owner of a M41 that somewhere along the line has not inadvertently dry fired their M41. Just do not make a habit of it and you should be fine.

I make it a habit to insert a "snap-cap" (actually a #4-#6 yellow drywall plug) as soon as I am finished shooting my M41 and then again when finished cleaning it and ready to store. I like to store the gun without spring tension and so I pull the trigger with a snap-cap inserted.
 
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My 41 doesn't like CCI standard velocity ammo. It expresses its distaste by ejecting the empty shell but not picking up a new one about 3% to 5% of the time. When that happened I would dry fire the gun.

Before I gave up on trying to get my gun to reliably fire that ammo I dry fired the gun dozens of times and cannot see any damage. It works great with CCI Blazer or Minimags so there was no unseen functional damage either.

I never intentionally dry fire my 41 but agree with the other posters that as long as you do not make a habit of it you will not have a problem.
 
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Get package of code Yellow masonary shields for screws. Keep one in chamber to protect from Dry Fire. I dont care what is said, dry firing is not good for any firearm. Most run of the mill 22s if dry fired will peen the edge of chamber. Even if your FP is not going metal to metal on empty chamber it's putting undo stress on it. This can cause crystallization causing breakage. This goes for CF guns too.
I don't think a occasional goof dry fire would damage any firearm, but it always raises my hackles.
 
May also want to address the reason behind the slide not locking back - ammo, magazines or slide stop?
 
JudgeColt said:
This issue comes up often. No "modern" rimfire is designed so that the firing pin can strike the chamber when no cartridge is present. I seem to recall a thread on the Model 41 that discussed some being shipped with too-long firing pins, but I think that was a long time ago, and, presumably, those guns were fixed.

The only real danger from dry-firing a "modern" rimfire (or a centerfire for that matter) is firing pin breakage, and that is a very remote possibility on most guns.

My 65-year-old Model 41 has been dry-fired hundreds of times, and the chamber and firing pin are still as new. Forget about it.
Click to expand...

Correct. I don't know where this wive's tale comes from. No manufacturer worth its salt would design a firearm that bashes its firing pin into the chamber. They would have their customer service department flooded with calls within the first week!

Dry fire away with your 41. It's perfectly fine!
 
Drm50 said:
Get package of code Yellow masonary shields for screws. Keep one in chamber to protect from Dry Fire. I dont care what is said, dry firing is not good for any firearm. Most run of the mill 22s if dry fired will peen the edge of chamber. Even if your FP is not going metal to metal on empty chamber it's putting undo stress on it. This can cause crystallization causing breakage. This goes for CF guns too.
I don't think a occasional goof dry fire would damage any firearm, but it always raises my hackles.
Click to expand...

Good lord so now you want to bash your firing pin into masonry screws instead of just having it hit nothing?

You're going to chip off chunks of the screw and get it into the action?

Have you ever tested your theory that "Most 22s will peen the chamber?" I have quite a few 22's and NONE of them do that. Could you name the models of the guns that do?

How do you explain the competitive shooters that dry fire guns thousands of times per week? Do you think the manufacturer puts "snap caps" in their gun when they are testing the trigger pulls?

Come on guys.
 
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Anschuetz rifles do hit the chamber rim for sure...costly mistake.

Even if there is a firing pin stop, eventually that will also peen/wear and ultimately yes, there will be marks developing on the chamber sooner or later.

I dry fire no guns, not 22s, not pistols and not rifles regardless of caliber or anything else. I se not value in doing it and many disadvantages.
 
smithra_66 said:
Good lord so now you want to bash your firing pin into masonry screws instead of just having it hit nothing?

You're going to chip off chunks of the screw and get it into the action?
Click to expand...

Masonry ANCHORS. Plastic and hold up better than the brittle plastic .22 cal "snap caps".

S&W actually used to recommend not to dry fire Model 41's. Looks like they don't mention it in the new 41 owners manual. I just looked.

I guess I'm too old and set to feel good about dry firing any of my .22's. I still remember calling S&W in the mid 1980's regarding dry firing. The answer was when walking through the revolver assembly area there was a lot of clicking from dry fire. The semi-auto area not so much.

Jim
 

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4T5GUY said:
Masonry ANCHORS. Plastic and hold up better than the brittle plastic .22 cal "snap caps".

S&W actually used to recommend not to dry fire Model 41's. Looks like they don't mention it in the new 41 owners manual. I just looked.

I guess I'm too old and set to feel good about dry firing any of my .22's. I still remember calling S&W in the mid 1980's regarding dry firing. The answer was when walking through the revolver assembly area there was a lot of clicking from dry fire. The semi-auto area not so much.

Jim
Click to expand...

My fault for typing "screw." I knew you meant the plastic things.

Believe me you're not alone. A lot of people can't bring themselves to do it.

Think about it though...when designing a gun. Would you design a gun that would self destruct by simply operating it? That would be a very bad design that probably wouldn't make it past the first step of R&D.
 
oysterer said:
Anschuetz rifles do hit the chamber rim for sure...costly mistake.

Even if there is a firing pin stop, eventually that will also peen/wear and ultimately yes, there will be marks developing on the chamber sooner or later.

I dry fire no guns, not 22s, not pistols and not rifles regardless of caliber or anything else. I se not value in doing it and many disadvantages.
Click to expand...

Looking around on the Anschuetz boards, they dry fire all the time. Anschuetz rifles are usually used for high level competition.

Do you think an Olympic biathlon shooter doesn't dry fire thousands of times in training? Do you think Anschuetz would be popular equipment for Olympic level shooters if they broke simply by pulling the trigger?

The pros are: You get better at shooting your gun and you win competitions.

The negatives are: You may have to replace a 5 dollar part...probably not, but maybe, possibly, after 20,000 dry fires.
 
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Here's an excerpt on dry firing from the Canadian National Biathlon team. I'll bet all of these shooters use Anschuetz rifles. Dry fire for a competitive shooter is like doing jumping jacks in the Marines. It's done daily. Do you think they all sit there and fiddle with snap caps? They are practicing running their bolt as well as dry firing.

Discussion: Dry firing has long been accepted as a valid and necessary training
element in biathlon shooting as well as position shooting. This is evidenced from the
volume of dry firing recommended in the Biathlon Canada shooting training manual that
was developed largely by Michel Dion, who is a position shooter and was the head coach,
back in the1980's. What is often a difficult task is the convincing of athletes that they
should engage in this activity and how much time they should devote to this type of
training. In this investigation 50min. per day was used to achieve the results quoted here
in addition to regular combination training during physical training while preparing for
the races. What is not in question based on this investigation is the fact that all but 2
athletes showed an improvement after engaging in high quality dry firing for a relatively
short period of 12 – 14 days. It should be noted that this investigation is focusing on the
relative improvements of the athletes and not making any judgment of the quality of
their shooting to start out with.
In addition to the measurable accuracy results stated above, it was also observed
that the speed and confidence with which the athletes performed the shooting was far
superior during the Germany tour than during the Canadian Championships. Several of
the athletes commented that they believed this to be due to the dry firing work they were
doing.
The intervention as outlined above, was able to produce these results. However it
is not the position of this paper that this is the only way to produce improvements to
shooting. Rather there are several more important principles at play here.
1. Athletes were spending time with their rifles
2. Athletes were engaging in visualization practice
3. Athletes were engaging in focused dry fire activity with no distraction
4. Athletes had a clear purpose to each exercise
5. Athletes were awake and physically primed for each session
Conclusion: It is hoped that everyone reading this paper will take away some
information that they can use in their training whether they are coaches or athletes and
that everyone will begin to benefit from this form of training.
 
I bought a used K-22 some years ago that had suffered some non-critical damage from dry firing. I suspect that the damage occurred only because there were other issues ("timing") involved, but since I'm not a gunsmith I don't really know. I try to act appropriately considering my ignorance. I usually use used cartridge cases, occasionally aluminum dummy rounds, and I'm still looking for a quantity of yellow anchors at a reasonable price.
 
Mine is under 5,000 pieces, has been dry fired a lot and has had a lot of HV .22 shot through it. It was used for 20 years by a West Coast Army Pistol shooter Maj. Hank Bires before I ever got it. It has no damage from any of this. I think that people are too careful with 41s. Either that or the new ones are not as well made. I look at the manual and the lubrication is stupid it is so dry. One drop at the back of the slide. It is a machine it has sliding and rotating parts. Lube the poor thing like a machine.
 
chief38 said:
Dry firing a S&W M41 (or any rimfire pistol) is not a good idea because of the metal on metal hit. Done enough times malformations will occur and will eventually screw up your pistol.
Click to expand...

Ruger specifically designed their Mark pistols with a firing pin stop pin through an oval cutout in the firing pin. Limits travel so the pin won't hit the chamber lip. Same with the 10/22. Ruger encourages you to dry fire to practice trigger control.

Am I understanding correctly that Smith couldn't be bothered to design in a simple limiting feature?
 
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Smith & Wesson DID design the Model 41 so that the firing pin cannot touch the chamber under any circumstance. Despite the above discussion and all of the evidence to the contrary, some continue to believe that a rimfire chamber will be "peened" by dry firing. No "modern" rimfire is designed so that there can be damage to the chamber from "dry-firing." Thousands of cycles will not cause "malformations."

I too will also add that my Anschuetz firing pin does not contact the chamber if "dry-fired."

I think some of the first rimfire firearms will "peen" the chamber if "dry-fired," so that is probably where this phobia began. Surely some of the collectors on this site have a Model 1. Will the firing pin on one of those contact the chamber if no cartridge is present?
 
I did accidentally dry-fire my model 41 a couple of times and no damage was done, but I didn't make a practice of it.

Now, I once owned a Smith & Wesson model 2206 that the owner's manual specifically said not to dry-fire it. I did dry-fire it about 5 times and I broke a firing pin. I ordered 3 new firing pins and dry-fired it several times and another broken firing pin. I know, that was stupid of me after breaking the first one. Lesson learned.
 
My father was a 2600+ bullseye shooter, who shot a 41. Needless to say that saw a lot of dry firing until he moved on to a Hammerli. Later, he gifted it to me for competition and I've also dry fired it thousands of times over the years. The gun is fine, no peening, scarring, broken firing pins, any other related issue.

One is certainly not going to hurt it.

As for those who saw there is no reason to dry fire any type of firearm ever, I disagree, as it is a valuable practice tool when improving or maintaining your trigger control. If you are just shooting 7 yards, then maybe not, but for any type of competition shooting requiring accuracy, dry firing is essential. Do your research, there are some guns that require snapcaps, then there are those that don't.
 
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