Model 52 wadcutter boolit question

[gwpercle]

Jay,
this is what reloading is all about. Developing a load tailored for your gun, each is a law into itself and what is a tackdriver in my gun my not even function in yours.

So get several different bullets, Bullseye powder and start experimenting with different charges, seating depths etc. and find that load that load your gun dotes on. By shooting all that factory ammo you know what groups your gun is capable of firing. There is a ton of load data for 38 spc. match WC loads out there, don,t try to load hot, an accurate load that will reliably cycle the action is best. Experiment and have fun......................gary

 

[boatbum101]

Model 52 is designed for 38 special mid - range loads aka factory 148hbwc loads . Bore on the 52's typically run .354 - .356 , tighter than most revolvers @ .357 - .358 . A soft swaged hbwc can size down better & with less pressure than a cast H&G50 or a dewc , unless a soft alloy was used . Imagine trying to push a cast or plated bullet sized .358 down the same barrel . Pressure goes up especially in a gun designed to work with low pressure match ammo . I personally have witnessed an extractor exit a 52-2 while 3.5gr Bullseye & Berry plated hbwc were being shot from it . Poor guy , this is after he called Berry 'cause he couldn't get the accuracy he wanted . They told him to increase the load 'til his groups tightened up . Bottom line the 52 is a serious target pistol period . If you're serious then your ammo must be as close to factory as you can make it . If you search my past posts you'll find a pretty good bit of info , load data , test targets @ 50yds outdoors , etc . Hope this helps . Attached pics of my 52 & 50yd offhand targets .

 

[JayHutch]

Thanks to Moonman, boatbum & Gary

Model 52 is designed for 38 special mid - range loads aka factory 148hbwc loads . Bore on the 52's typically run .354 - .356 , tighter than most revolvers @ .357 - .358 . A soft swaged hbwc can size down better & with less pressure than a cast H&G50 or a dewc , unless a soft alloy was used . Imagine trying to push a cast or plated bullet sized .358 down the same barrel . Pressure goes up especially in a gun designed to work with low pressure match ammo . I personally have witnessed an extractor exit a 52-2 while 3.5gr Bullseye & Berry plated hbwc were being shot from it . Poor guy , this is after he called Berry 'cause he couldn't get the accuracy he wanted . They told him to increase the load 'til his groups tightened up . Bottom line the 52 is a serious target pistol period . If you're serious then your ammo must be as close to factory as you can make it . If you search my past posts you'll find a pretty good bit of info , load data , test targets @ 50yds outdoors , etc . Hope this helps . Attached pics of my 52 & 50yd offhand targets .

Thanks to all of you. As usual very good advice from the guys that know. I'm a little worried about the 25 rounds I've made up with the DEWC & 2.6 gn BE, regular Winchester brass. I just measured them at .357. Will they be too tight in my M-52? Here is a pic of the type I used. Have no way of knowing how "hard" they are. Bought them from a bulk bin. Only bought 50 to experiment. Think they will be OK, or should I "re-boot"? - hutch

 

[boatbum101]

At 2.6gr & .357 bullet you should be OK . Cheapest best shooting 148 hbwc bullet is the Remington . Swaged soft lead .359 with a robust skirt so you can push them 800fps w/o blowing them out . Nasty graphite type lube ( clean seater often ) . Zero makes a good one too . Also swaged soft lead .357 & soft beeswax/grease lube . I've also shoot this @ 800fps w/o problem . I find both equally accurate . With hbwc we want 700 - 800fps & shooting a semi auto also cycles the pistol . Following are traditional 148 HBWC loads : 3.6 VVN 340 , 3.1 - 3.2 W231 , 2.8 - 2.9 VVN 320 , 3.5 - 3.8 SR4756 , 2.6 PB , 2.3 - 2.4 RS Competition , 2.6 - 2.9 Reddot , 2.3 - 2.5 700X , 2.7 - 3.0 Bullseye , 2.7 - 3.0 SR7625 , 2.6 - 2.8 WST , 2.9 AA#2 .
Many years ago a National Champ 2700 shooter decided he was going to test accuracy of the 52 & to see if he could duplicate / exceed performance of factory match loads with handloads . Since he also happened to be an FFL & a S&W Dealer he got 3 Model 52's to test . All testing was done with a Ransom Rest @ 50yds . All the factory & reloaded loads were shot from all 3 guns . Results were avg'd for each load in each gun . Bottom line factory match was the ticket in all 3 guns . The factory swaged bullets flat outshot the cast handloads . This was many years ago & the man was Gil Hebard . This all tells me if I want 50yd accuracy I must equal factory ammo . With today's components & careful loading it's quite possible I believe .

 

[forestswin]

If you search my past posts you'll find a pretty good bit of info , load data , test targets @ 50yds outdoors , etc . Hope this helps . Attached pics of my 52 & 50yd offhand targets .

boatbum
I did just that. sincerely - thanks, but dag do you know how many posts you have? its like 500!! and as I went through them, I had a 50% distraction rate - reading your other posts on other pertinent, interesting issues to me. It took several hours - all good though

In summary: trim to 1.145", Fed 100 primer, 148 HBWC (several casters), taper crimp to 0.369", 3.1 to 3.2 G W231 or 2.7 to 2.9 BE, or 2.7 WST, seat flush, 700<V<800

did I miss anything??

 

[forestswin]

If you search my past posts you'll find a pretty good bit of info , load data , test targets @ 50yds outdoors , etc . Hope this helps . Attached pics of my 52 & 50yd offhand targets .

boatbum
I did just that. sincerely - thanks, but dag do you know how many posts you have? its like 500!! and as I went through them, I had a 50% distraction rate - reading your other posts on other pertinent issues to me

In summary: trim to 1.145", Fed 100 primer, swaged 148 HBWC, taper crimp to 0.369", 3.1 to 3.2 G W231 or 2.7 to 2.9 BE, or 2.7 WST, seat flush, 700<V<800

did I miss anything??
cast reference removed replaced with swaged, as corrected by boatbum

 

[JayHutch]

At 2.6gr & .357 bullet you should be OK . Cheapest best shooting 148 hbwc bullet is the Remington . Swaged soft lead .359 with a robust skirt so you can push them 800fps w/o blowing them out . Nasty graphite type lube ( clean seater often ) . Zero makes a good one too . Also swaged soft lead .357 & soft beeswax/grease lube . I've also shoot this @ 800fps w/o problem . I find both equally accurate . With hbwc we want 700 - 800fps & shooting a semi auto also cycles the pistol . Following are traditional 148 HBWC loads : 3.6 VVN 340 , 3.1 - 3.2 W231 , 2.8 - 2.9 VVN 320 , 3.5 - 3.8 SR4756 , 2.6 PB , 2.3 - 2.4 RS Competition , 2.6 - 2.9 Reddot , 2.3 - 2.5 700X , 2.7 - 3.0 Bullseye , 2.7 - 3.0 SR7625 , 2.6 - 2.8 WST , 2.9 AA#2 .
Many years ago a National Champ 2700 shooter decided he was going to test accuracy of the 52 & to see if he could duplicate / exceed performance of factory match loads with handloads . Since he also happened to be an FFL & a S&W Dealer he got 3 Model 52's to test . All testing was done with a Ransom Rest @ 50yds . All the factory & reloaded loads were shot from all 3 guns . Results were avg'd for each load in each gun . Bottom line factory match was the ticket in all 3 guns . The factory swaged bullets flat outshot the cast handloads . This was many years ago & the man was Gil Hebard . This all tells me if I want 50yd accuracy I must equal factory ammo . With today's components & careful loading it's quite possible I believe .

GREAT info boatbum. Thanks a lot. At a gun show today I bought the last 100 Zero HBWC a guy had on a table. I asked him about them and if he had more. You know, he looked puzzled and almost seemed like he didn't know what I was talking about. Said he didn't even know he had that bag. $10 bucks - that OK? I'll give them a try next and keep to the 2.6. I'll put them in my saved old Winchester Western brass with the case cannalure. - hutch

 

[boatbum101]

Forestswin no cast in 52 , swaged 148 HBWC only . JayHutch I'd start @ 2.7 Bullseye with Zero 148hbwc . No more than 3.0 with Bullseye & 148hbwc .

 

[4barrel]

When I target shoot my 52 with a dewc I go with 2.9 of bullseye & a resize of .356. The hbwcs are 3d & zero sized to .357 with 2.7 of bullseye. I also have some 100 gr dewcs made by 3D. They shoot better out of a wheel gun with 2.5 of bullseye. About like a 22.

 

[TexasRider]

Over the years I've had two different 52's and both shot well with factory flush seated W/C's. I had the best luck and accuracy with Speer 148 Gn. HBWC seated over 2.5-2.7 grains of Bullseye powder. Mine and others cast 148 gn. W/C's didn't work as well and often jammed. FYI

The Speer 148 HBWC works well for me too.