Model 67 Catastrophic Failure

[snowman]

This is a totally worthless reply, but all I can say when I see something like this is. . .

. . .for cryin' out loud.

Andy

 

[Sgt 127]

I have been shooting Smith and Wesson revolvers for over 30 years. I have never, until recently, heard of one breaking off like that. I have heard about, though never seen, the non pinned versions occassionally unscrewing themselves, but, nothing like this.

Really, its one of the most simple parts of a revolver. Its a screw and a thread...they got it right for over 100 years and now, its a part that has problems? Really? How does that happen?

 

[Dragon88]

BTW, you can bet that these barrels will be subjected to lots of testing at an independent lab, a quality manufacturer like S&W gets VERY VERY upset when a supplier screws up like this. I also suspect those frames will be gone over with a fine tooth comb and that things will get VERY tense in the QC areas.

I wish that were the case, but honestly I get the impression that S&W doesn't care about quality as much anymore. Look at some of the guns coming out of their shop these days. I bet they replace the lot of revolvers and that's it.

 

[scooter123]

Sgt, it's been happening for 100 years if the stories I've heard from some old timers chewing the fat at shooting ranges are to be believed. I once had a Columbus Ohio Cop back in the 70's tell me that he'd once broken the barrel off a model 19 over the head of a drunk, which was why his current gun had a brass butt plate on it. Of course, some of those range tales have to be taken with an understanding that there may be a "bit" of exageration going on.

The reason why we all hear about it now is simply due to the internet. Basically, stuff happens, it always has and always will.

 

[alaskavett]

Thanks for posting this. Perhaps we all should closely examine our stainless barreled S&W's? Better safe then sorry here. Kyle

 

[bountyhunter]

We had SW range guns send their barrels downrange but they were .357 and pretty well used.

 

[bountyhunter]

Friday night we were running a Corrections Class through night fire quaification. Corrections is required to shoot .38 Special revolvers and the academy uses S&W Model 67's. These guns are new, with no more than 800 rounds through any one gun.

A student, who has consistently been a good shooter, was all over the target. Inspection of his revolver revealed that the barrel was missing....yes, missing. It was recovered on the ground where he was shooting from. The barrel separated at the threads halfway down the forcing cone.

This is why I never recommend anybody try to change a barrel for different length: it's so easy to stress the frame and weaken it when torquing the barrel. Pretty much inexcusable for the factory, but when you fire the gunsmiths and hire min wage monkeys....

 

[bountyhunter]

I wish that were the case, but honestly I get the impression that S&W doesn't care about quality as much anymore. Look at some of the guns coming out of their shop these days. I bet they replace the lot of revolvers and that's it.

SW is extremely concerned about finding the defects in their guns... however, they now use their customers to locate them.

 

[bountyhunter]

Really, its one of the most simple parts of a revolver. Its a screw and a thread...they got it right for over 100 years and now, its a part that has problems? Really? How does that happen?

It has to be torqued in to crush the washer and end up exactly where it should be vertical. Doing it right means shaving the end of the barrel fit surface until it's just right.... doing it lazy means getting a bigger wrench and cranking until the front sight points up.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

This thread is really food for thought. Over the last year I've been transitioning from semi's over to my 686's for concealed carry, just for the extra reliablity I feel they could provide in certain circumstances. Things like close contact where you might not be able to pull a semi-auto back enough to make sure the slide is in battery, i.e. something like a wrestling match.

For some I know my concerns aren't an issue since they claim that I'm a fool for thinking that if I'm theatened by an unarmed person I'll try my best to deal with it the old school way (leave, talk, fists etc.) before drawing my weapon. They tend to shrug off my "The force needs to match the threat" line I give them feeling that if they are threatened, in any way whatsoever, then it's time to clear leather.

I always leave them with, "Let's just hope you don't come across someone like the Valedictorian of your local High School with no priors who just happens to be acting like an idiot that day and you shoot him and then you have no witnesses that will back up your claims that he was a deadly threat."

When it comes to life & death you better be about as sure as a person can be on each & every aspect, especially your weapon's reliability.............

 

[Texas Star]

I read on the Net that the Hong Kong cops sent back some for the same reason. Don't know if its true.

Some Ruger Redhawk barrels also came off, and it was traced to leaving some manufacturing liquid on barrels over the weekend, I think. Whatever that was, it weakened the steel.


T-Star

 

[RightWinger]

I have been working on a project gun of mine for quite a while....It's a 686-4 2.5 inch. It has been dished for moonclips, I bobbed the hammer, put those sexy Nill grips on it, did an action job, and then installed a C&S fixed rear sight......this is when all the trouble started for me. Since the 686 has the RR front sight, I had no way of adjusting the POI, so I had the front sight dovetailed and had a tritium 1911 sight installed. Thinking that would fix the problem I was really dissapointed that I could not even get the gun to hit my target from 15 yards (the front sight was almost hanging off the dovetail, it looked terrible!).....so back to the drawing board. As it turns out, the barrel needed to be turned to the right a few thousandths.....however this barrel was already severely over torqued from the factory. The barrel was put on a lathe and just turned by hand (no need to turn the lathe on and take too much off the shoulder)......this finally corrected the problem and had I done this at first the RR sight might have worked, but as it turned out I love the tritium front sight and this gun has turned out to be a favorite. I have another 686-4 2.5 inch that I am wanting to convert to a 3 incher......and I'm sure the barrel is probably not aligned or over torqued on this one as well......

 

[18DAI]

OP contact S&W. After they deny any problem, blame your maintenance and then blame your ammo, they will quietly exchange your 67's for free M&P pistols.

Thats what they did here. Then S&W will issue a press release announcing your agencies "adoption" of the new M&P pistol!

S&W's QC/QA may not be worth anything, but their PR folks are top notch. Regards 18DAI.

 

[ms]

Washer?

It has to be torqued in to crush the washer and end up exactly where it should be vertical. Doing it right means shaving the end of the barrel fit surface until it's just right.... doing it lazy means getting a bigger wrench and cranking until the front sight points up.

When did they start using a washer?

 

[Andy Griffith]

OP contact S&W. After they deny any problem, blame your maintenance and then blame your ammo, they will quietly exchange your 67's for free M&P pistols.

Thats what they did here. Then S&W will issue a press release announcing your agencies "adoption" of the new M&P pistol!

S&W's QC/QA may not be worth anything, but their PR folks are top notch. Regards 18DAI.

Why not switch them for more 64's/67's since that's what the law requires.
Maybe it's time they try a Taurus or Rugers? Can't possibly be worse.

 

[bountyhunter]

When did they start using a washer?

I thought there was some kind of washer in there. maybe not, that's what I thought.

 

[45FMJoe]

The corrections recruits shoot two stages from the 7 yeard line at night. One stage is 3 strings of 6 rounds each utilizing a handheld flashlight. The second is a repeat of the first stage however no handheld flashlight, only whatever ambient moonlight is available. On that particular night it was very dark, just enough light to be able to see the target, however the recruits are essentially point shooting so there is no visualizing the front sight, hence he did not notice the missing barrel. Cadet to RO's ratio is 6:1

You corrections guys do it differently than LE. I finished my firearms block about a month and a half ago. IIRC, we fired 3x 2-shot strings in ambient light followed by 2x 3-shot strings and one 6-shot string.Then we did the same thing with flashlights, all at 7 yards. I lost one point in the night shoot and that was the only point I lost all day between the 2 handgun relays, the nighttime handgun relay and the shotgun relay. The funny part is the point I lost was during the 6 shot string with a flashlight... I was trying to use the sights as they told us. I should have stuck to point shooting. Oh well, I still won top gun by a wide margin.

 

[bodyarmorguy]

Same course....I just didn't break it down by each string. I do the firearms blocks for both LE and Corrections.

 

[handgunner356]

When he lost his barrel I would have thought the change in recoil and muzzle flash would have been a hint that something was outta whack. I'd put money on the over torqued theory.

 

[Speedo2]

The failure appears to me to have been in the barrel threads; looks like a standard threaded barrel attachment, rather than the 2-piece design. The fracture surface appears to be brittle, and because the guns were fairly new, fatigue is unlikely. Just a guess on my part, but I'd suspect intergranular stress corrosion cracking. Maybe some bad 400 series stainless, or perhaps some improper thread sealant was applied. Looks like a job for a good metallurgist. Regardless, glad that nobody was hurt and that the failures didn't occur during a more critical event. Very bad PR for our favorite gun company; I hope that you get a satisfactory explanation and that you can share it with us. Thanks for posting. -S2