Model 67 Catastrophic Failure

[bodyarmorguy]

Yes, they were CNW prefixes.

 

[lemeni]

Thanks very much for looking that up, Bodyarmorguy. I owe ya one.

And I'm glad no one was hurt. Could've been really bad.


Well, for future readers of this thread, if I ever have a problem with my CNJ 67-5 I'll post about it here. Also, I bought my 67-5 NEW (I'm the first/original owner) just a few months ago.

 

[blastfact]

I for one had never seen a barrel shot off a frame. I have introduced wear because of shooting major rounds through pistols. But I have never seen barrels fall off or shot loose. EXCERPT !!!! in the last 20 years.

I chalk it up to college boy engineering begging to be paid more than there worth, cheap ass investor requirements and a complete lack of craft.

 

[FHRZR1]

I am the Coordinator were the incident with the Model 67 barrels took place. We have a batch of Model 13 S&W that must be older than creation and have fire probably over 60,000rounds with no failures at all. We acquire the Model 64 in 2008 and had four barrels fall off. In 2010 we acquire the Model 67 and two barrels failed. Will advise on the factory response.

 

[Stainz]

As far as revolvers launching their barrels, recall the infamous early Ruger .44 Magnum Redhawks that did so - that begot the Super Redhawk, even though the assembly fault was corrected. Interesting that the two-piece barrel S&W's were replaced with single piece - and then they failed. There is something else going on here. Whether the subject revolvers were overtightened, mistreated, or dropped, something else is going on here.

I have to wonder if the handling of the failed revolvers had anything to do with said failure, or if that was solely due to something in the manufacturing process. Continued shooting - at night - of a revolver less it's barrel - doesn't speak well of the shooter's attention to details.

I have heard this story before - let's not write-off all current production for a sampling we as yet have no factory feedback on, good or bad. As an aside, the Ruger Redhawk's assembly process was corrected - the threading of their barrels was done more cleanly - and that line is still popular today. I've been there, done that - had a RH & SRH - happily traded/sold them all - and bought two-piece barrel, MIM infested, and evil IL-sporting S&W's as a result - with never a problem. Let's have an open mind at least until we get some factory feedback on this failure.

Stainz

 

[FHRZR1]

Keep in mind that the kids shooting these weapon are raw recruits. Most of them have never fired a revolver in their entire short life. Large number of them have never fired a handgun.
These are recruits going through basic firearms training.

 

[cp1969]

I have to wonder if the handling of the failed revolvers had anything to do with said failure, or if that was solely due to something in the manufacturing process. Continued shooting - at night - of a revolver less it's barrel - doesn't speak well of the shooter's attention to detail.

First, how does one 'handle' a revolver such that the result is the barrel falling off?

Second, if the recruit didn't notice the barrel was gone during the day, that would be one thing but at night, I can very easily see this happening.

Bottom line is, there is nothing the shooter could have done to cause this.

 

[FHRZR1]

Update:

S&W contacted me regarding the barrel failure issue. Weapons were sent to metallurgy lab for testing. Lab claims that there is nothing wrong with the metal. Cause of failure per S&W is "barrel were over-torqued during assembly".
S&W offered to send back my original revolvers and replace the two with new ones. That was not acceptable by me.
I want all of the revolvers to be replace by steel weapons. Like the Model 15. Our inventory of Model 13's have over 60000 rounds on them. Have never had a failure.
I am still waiting for a supervisor to call me.
I think my request is very fair, considering that I had 6 revolvers barrel failures.
Opinions????

 

[skyraider6]

another one

Saw this one on Cal-guns today. So how's the S&W custom shop? - Calguns.net

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Update:

S&W contacted me regarding the barrel failure issue. Weapons were sent to metallurgy lab for testing. Lab claims that there is nothing wrong with the metal. Cause of failure per S&W is "barrel were over-torqued during assembly".
S&W offered to send back my original revolvers and replace the two with new ones. That was not acceptable by me.
I want all of the revolvers to be replace by steel weapons. Like the Model 15. Our inventory of Model 13's have over 60000 rounds on them. Have never had a failure.
I am still waiting for a supervisor to call me.
I think my request is very fair, considering that I had 6 revolvers barrel failures.
Opinions????

Having spent over a decade in Quality in a very large manufacturing process (GM's 3800 V6 Engine Plant) I feel that you are doing the right thing when it comes to suspect "parts." Suspect doesn't mean defective, you have to rely on the data you have on hand when trying to determine if there is a good chance that they might be, defective that is. In this case I would say yes, in spite of the fact that your sample size is very small.

When in doubt, toss, check or swap them out.

What you are attempting to do is something I have done many times myself. When an issue came up I would get the suspect parts out of the system and replace them with parts that have worked in the past. I was able to do this because we failed to reliably follow our FIFO rule, which meant, First In, First Out. Because of this, if the suspect parts had a current pack date from the supplier, I was able to go back to our stock area and try to locate dunnage with older pack dates, basically from a time frame when we had no issues.

The reason I gave a brief explanation of our process is that you are trying to accomplish something along the same lines by going with something you know has worked in the past. A sound tactic that has worked well for me many, many times........

 

[stantheman86]

Interesting, it seems more like an assembly error, Ruger had an "issue" like this that led to the introduction of the Super Redhawk back in the 90's, a change in the lubricant used to screw on the standard Redhawk barrels caused a few to launch themselves downrange. The problem was corrected but the Super Redhawk stayed in production.

I don't think these incidents will be enough to make S&W stop using 2-piece barrels. In todays "production" mindset, be it cars, guns, etc. the manufacturer would rather fix a few "errors" than change a production technique. My '05 Dodge Magnum came from the factory with two bad wheel bearings and I didn't get so much as a "sorry" from Dodge. The dealer just fixed it.

Interestingly none of S&W's blued guns use the 2-piece.

 

[luis]

Interestingly none of S&W's blued guns use the 2-piece.

Current machining technology makes the 1-piece blue barrel cheaper than the 2-piece barrel. A local security company just purchased 150 M10s for $62.50 each less than M64s.

 

[andyo5]

Not really 'catastrophic' since no one was harmed and the guns can probably be refitted with new barrels.
Catastrophic is more like an explosion which destroys the gun (and maybe also harms someone).

 

[stantheman86]

The security company got 10-14's for over $60 less then the 64's? I'm surprised there's still security companies out there still buying wheelguns......usually it's all Glocks now.

That makes sense, I have seen 10-14's for $450 new, retail, and the 64-8's go for about $500 or so.

 

[David LaPell]

What irks me is that Smith's response here given an early reply is almost on the order of "go pound sand". To me, any response like that when your product disintegrates on the firing line after 800 rounds is unacceptable, but when SEVERAL of your products start to go from a solid frame to a take down model on the line and that customer is a law enforcement agency, where these guns will be used by people who may need them to save their lives is beyond comprehension. I cannot for the life of me I don't know what the quality control department is doing, but it appears that these guns were either assembled after the barrel fitted had a hangover on Monday morning, or it was on a Friday and the guy was heading out on vacation.

 

[H Richard]

I witnessed one of the Ruger Redhawk barrel separations back in the 80's. Came apart very similar to what is shown. The owner sent it back to Ruger at their expense, and it was replaced with a new Redhawk with the built in scope ring mounts and the rings at no cost, "after" they contacted him and asked if he would like them. He has shot the gun many times since with no problems. He was given the same answer, after investigation a fitter over-torqued the barrel.

 

[panther]

I hope S&W makes this right for you, and I agree that they should replace the whole batch with whatever you feel is a good trade. They should throw in holsters and speed clips, or custom grips too.
I also hope that bad batch of guns doesn't wind up on the used gun market as "police trade-ins" in the next 6 months.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

WOW! This is scary and discouraging..... Im a new Smith owner with a 686-6. Wonder if this has been reported with 686's.... I am looking hard at buying a new 67 mainly for my wife to shoot....But now after seeing this, im thinking Ill look for an older pre-enjoyed m67...

 

[luis]

The security company got 10-14's for over $60 less then the 64's? I'm surprised there's still security companies out there still buying wheelguns......usually it's all Glocks now.

Many states still require non magnum wheel guns unless the user had prior military training (California, Florida, Illinois, SD). The company in question is going to supply guards for banks.

 

[Fishslayer]

SW is extremely concerned about finding the defects in their guns... however, they now use their customers to locate them.

Works for Microsoft...

Saw this one on Cal-guns today. So how's the S&W custom shop? - Calguns.net

First thing I thought of when I saw these pics.Couldn't remember where I'd seen it though. Thanks.

This is all real encouraging since I've recently purchased my first stainless S&W wheelgun. A 686 no dash... 'course, it's fine after 20 plus years, so....