Model 67 Catastrophic Failure

[Wiregrassguy]

I've never seen this on a S&W before, but I have seen a similar phenomenon called "stress corrosion cracking." Stainless steel under stress (torqued into position) that comes in contact with chlorine or fluorine (mostly) is subject to it. The CL or FL gets into crevasses in the steel and causes cracking. Add the pressure from the cartridge and the metal cracks through-wall and falls off. The only way to confirm is to have a forensic metallurgical exam done. And, I would highly encourage S&W to do it especially if they are using cutting or cleaning fluids that have CL or FL in them.

 

[rburg]

Wonder what the sight picture looked like with no barrel?

How would you know with your eyes closed?

 

[riverrat38]

Yup, those old fashioned pinned barrels were just a waste of money.

But, just think of all the material they saved.
Maybe S&W has got something here. The ultimate belly gun. Fires right out of the cylinder. Maybe all at once!
Actually, this looks like something out of a "Sledge Hammer" episode! Barrel goes further than the bullet.
Maybe Speer can come up with some new "ultra short barrel" ammo!

Rick

 

[chud333]

Now maybe some will understand why so many (including)
myself will never buy anything of S&W's made newer than 1980
or so. Sorry but junk is junk. Would like to know who is in
charge of QC these days ??? Pee Wee Herman.....

Chuck

 

[Cruiser RN]

Yep it happens.I had 2 Model 60 357 magnums become frame crackers and barrel launchers using solely factory 38 special ammo.The Model 36 that replaced it had a right canted barrel that took 2 trips to S+W to fix the problem.They finally replaced the barrel and it is all good.

 

[John F.]

Good info!

I'd heard of similar barrel failures on SS Smiths before, but kind of let the issue fade out of my conscious thinking...

Thanks for reminding me that I NEVER need to buy a SS Smith revolver!

John

 

[sodacan]

That's what happens when accountants and lawyers think they are gunsmiths.

 

[photoman]

I'd heard of similar barrel failures on SS Smiths before, but kind of let the issue fade out of my conscious thinking...

Thanks for reminding me that I NEVER need to buy a SS Smith revolver!

John

You're cheating yourself out of the joy of owning a perfectly good weapon by subscribing to the false presumption that all stainless steel S&W revolvers will fail like this one did.

 

[Sarge45]

I would suspect over torquing also. In addition, there may be something in their assembly lube that is crystalizing the metal at the threads. Dunno.

 

[riverrat38]

The assembler may have over torqued the barrel to get the front sight vertical, rather than re cutting the set back. And, it would be the threads that fail in doing so. A crush fit, which I think is the same thing auto mechanics refer to as a stretch fit, is very critical with respect to torque. It is calculated to be close to the yield point of the steel, under stress of firing, in order to prevent loosening of the joint. Going beyond that point is not good!
I also suspect that the assemblers may be under trained in the theory of this, and are under pressure to meet production goals. Modern bean counting policy is to get the work out, as long as the warranty costs are less then the cost of "doing it right the first time". This is true in almost all large "consumer" industries. But its also why a S&W gun costs $700 and not $2K. Look at how much it costs to have a stock gun "blue printed"! Or how much it costs to build a 200 HP aircraft engine, compared to the same size car engine.
I don't think that the material had anything to do with this failure. Stainless steel is a very tough material.

Rick

 

[John F.]

Ummmmmmmmmmm, not quite...

"You're cheating yourself out of the joy of owning a perfectly good weapon by subscribing to the false presumption that *****all***** stainless steel S&W revolvers will fail like this one did."

No, I'm quite sure most don't. I just prefer not to be holding the one that DOES when I need it to save my ... er... derriere.

One less thing to worry about, and cleaning a blue-steel revolver is no problem for me!

John

 

[Cerberus62]

Unfortunately the alternative is buy something made in Brazil or made in Turkey :-(

Not hijacking the thread, but what's so wrong about that?

1) American universities have been training the world's engineers for the last 30 years. These are the men & women staffing those foreign companies now.

2) The basic designs of the guns haven't changed in much longer than that. Most of the innovation in design comes from the foreigners.

3) How much skill does it take to punch the numbers into a modern CNC machine and have it spit out parts, no matter what country it's located in?

Sad fact is this: The Chinese, Turks, Brazilians, Russians and anyone else can turn out product that's as good (or bad) as the contracting company is willing to pay for. I have seen some really nice Turkish shotguns lately, and some really bad ones. They will build you a gun to suit whatever market or price point you want to sell to.

If you think the Turkish arms industry is a bunch of barefoot kids in white robes using hand files in a dirt floor factory, think again. Some of these facilities are more modern and better equipped than their American competitiors.

Blame American companies and workers for the results of their business models and labor practices and demands, but don't discount the fact that there are some seriously nice foreign gun makers.

BTW, did you know that Taurus (and Rossi) have been based in Miami, Florida for almost 20 years now?

 

[jaymoore]

Not hijacking the thread...

...[T]here are some seriously nice foreign gun makers.

BTW, did you know that Taurus (and Rossi) have been based in Miami, Florida for almost 20 years now?

Of which neither Taurus nor Rossi qualify. I've tried many Tauri over the years. None quite met expectations, even at their reduced price point. Some have failed miserably. More notably, one of our larger LGS has quit carrying Taurus after years of unhappy customers. They finally tired of the dramas.

 

[Mike McLellan]

Hitting the paper from the 7 yard line at night, without a barrel, is pretty good shootin'.

 

[riverrat38]

Having the barrel go further down range than the bullet sounds like a joke from a Sledge Hammer episode!

Best,
Rick

 

[cp1969]

3) How much skill does it take to punch the numbers into a modern CNC machine and have it spit out parts, no matter what country it's located in?

Quite a bit. You need to try it some time. Oh, it'll spit out parts, all right. Scrap parts, unless you know what you're doing.

 

[357-RevolverGuy]

That's crazy. Never seen anything like it. I suppose the user didn't realize the barrel was off due to it being "night fire" training, but I'm sure the flashfire must have been a sign. I've always regarded S&W revolvers as some of the finest every made, but something like this sure makes me wish Colt were still making them.

 

[LittleChickie]

I just posted a question about the age of some used S&W revolvers just purchased. Glad they are old! What does a 2 piece barrel look like - how does one know?
LittleChickie
p.s. It just fell off?????????

 

[BillyMagg]

Naw, how old are you, those are obviously brittle stress fractures from the stainless being over torqued in order to line the front sights up, probably no lube on the threads or frame, and stretching the threaded section as you turn it into the frame. I have seen Ruger Super Red Hawks with the same problem, more prevalent with castings than forgings but stainless is brittle and far less ductile than carbon steel. Now having said that the carbon steel was softer on older Smiths, the reason forged head golf clubs have more "feel", but also get marked up quicker from play.

A friends S/A TRP had the slide seize on the frame due to running it dry and the stainless "galling". He listens to Ole Billy now and runs her wet!

 

[qrachel]

Hi: There is a recurring theme on this thread if one susses it out. S&W QA is pretty spotty and they are apparently willing to live with it that way.

There's simply no excuse for this and other failures that are regularly reported here (and I've only been a member for a few months). I love the S&W revolver; it's a classy piece regardless of the model. It's historic and modernistic packaged in a very appealing way . . . but not with regard to quality.

I have a 617 that is shooting flawlessly (~2-300 rounds) and have a 686P 357mag/38spcl w/4" barrel that I'll pick it up in a few weeks. However, this corporation is rapidly raising my concern to the point that I'm unsure I want to buy or use their products because of poor quality.

They are going to experience a real tragedy and then expect their quality/safety record to become public and don't be surprised if it's pretty nasty.

I'm surprised there isn't some sort of regulatory oversight that is (or should be) climbing up their backside.

Have fun, be safe and great shooting,

R

 

[Bart45]

Don't make 'em like they used to...........

 

[revolver59]

I am thinking, maybe the timing might have been off for a while and not noticed,and continuous shooting resulted in wear and tear which caused the barrel to do what it did.

 

[JohnK]

That +p is the same as a 357 in most ways.............

Not !

 

[Dave T]

That +p is the same as a 357 in most ways.............

Not !

That statement got my attention too. Where's Saxon Pig on this? He could write a book about the myth of today's +P ammo...and I could add a chapter or two. (smile)

Dave

 

[Green Frog]

I am thinking, maybe the timing might have been off for a while and not noticed,and continuous shooting resulted in wear and tear which caused the barrel to do what it did.

After two pages of this thread, I think revolver59 has touched on what actually happened with the revolver in question... the barrel started cracking and coming loose from the frame as shown on another revolver in another picture. The "floppy" barrel would be pointing a slightly different way each shot, causing a shotgun pattern instead of a group. When it finally let go on the last shot or two, it was obvious that the problem was the barrel! Also, if the shooter was instinctively pointing right at center of mass at 7 yards, the shots would probably be more accurate without a barrel than those through a barrel pointed off in some weird direction!

The fix? Use a barrel that is turned up firm and pinned in place. Oh yeah, S&W did that for 100 years, why the heck did they fix something that wasn't broken?

Froggie