Modern Smokeless Recipes for MagTech Brass Hulls

[DefenderBob]

The brass hulls that MagTech is selling for reloading are pretty interesting to me. I like the idea of being able to keep reloading them almost forever with lighter loads. I want to load 3/4 oz loads for 12 gauge, and maybe get a 28 gauge to shoot a 3/4 oz load as well. The problem I've had is that these hulls are apparently intended for black powder, and I only use smokeless. It seems like some black powder recipes are available, but I haven't been able to find smokeless recipes from any legitimate source.

Do any of you know where I can find some proper recipes?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I use the MagTech All Brass Hulls in black powder and have looked into smokeless loads.

The first problem is the inside dimensions are totally different! Different diameter and way different volume. All wads and cards are 11 gauge for 12 gauge hulls!

The second problem is the primer is a Large pistol size and shape not a 209 shape.

The third is the sizing and crimp of the hull. RCBS use to make a 12 gauge die set, and C-H4D still makes dies for all shot shells 410 up to 10 gauge, including 32 & 24 gauges. I own the RCBS 12 & The CH4D 20. You will need a Rock Chucker press with the die bushing removed to use those larger diameter dies! and you will have to lube, size, clean off lube each hull before priming and loading!

THE GOOD NEWS: Ballistic products use to sell a loading pamphlet with all the info on loading brass hulls. I bought one ($4 at the time ca. 2000), it said what I just told you plus it said just about any current data will be safe to use. Felt and Cork wads & cards in 11 gauge (for 12 gauge) & 16 gauge (for 20 gauge) are sold by Ballistic products.

THE BAD NEWS: Try finding smokeless data for felt and cork wads, 'cause they don't give you any! Any loading manual from the 50's would be of great use (if the powders were still made!)

I load mine for SASS events and Vintage Sporting Clays shoots. I use the Black Powder substitute Shockley's Gold, a vitamin C based powder. It cleans up with soapy water like BP or with Nitro solvent like smokeless, but must be cleaned right away (The powder residue isn't corrosive, but adsorbs humidity fast and will rust the snot out of your gun if you don't get to it for a few days!!!)

I load mine with Lee loaders and a hammer! Black Powder and non corrosive substitutes don't expand the cases enough to need resizing. You load the powder by volume, not weight. Muzzle loading shotgun loads work and give you a close velocity. You adjust the volume of the load to fit your brass length, I use 1 1/2 felt 1/2"wads. The over the shot card is a problem I haven't found a simple solution to. I place a card over the shot (with no crimp) and glue the mouth closed. Elmer's glue works, but will crack later and dump your shot! I use a house gutter seam sealer (from Lowe's or Home Depot) and fill the end of the case and trowel off the excess with a popsicle stick. Let dry for 3 weeks minimum.

My velocity is about 1175 fps with 1 oz. of #7.5 shot (20 gauge same velocity, 7/8 ounce shot). And away you go. Yes, it is a pain in the butt! However it is very fun to shoot, but you learn to judge the direction of the breeze, so you can see for a second shot!

Ivan

 

[DefenderBob]

Thanks for the input, Ivan. I had to chuckle while I read your post, as you pointed out all the problems I had found, plus more! I checked my old George Nonte "Modern Handloading" book. Maj. Nonte presented an excellent discussion on wads, cards, and wad columns, etc., but provided no load data. I took a quick look at my old Phil Sharpe "Complete Guide To Handloading" book. It provided lots of load data for rifles and handguns, but nothing for shotguns.

I think I'll just hang it up for now on the brass hulls and continue using my plastic hulls. They work great, but somehow lack the "coolness" factor that the brass hulls provide.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I hadn't thought of it before but Hodgdon made a stab ay being the premier shotgun powder company in the 90's. They published an extensive "leather like" hard bound manual with many out of the ordinary and short hulls. They may have data that is unpublished but available on all brass hulls. Remington released a 25 round commemorative tin box with 25 brass shells for their 150 or 175th anniversary several years ago, so there would have been a reason to develop data in the modern era of shotguns. It can't hurt to call their Customer service and ask. They were very helpful in the past when I needed some specialty data.

There are shotgun forums out their also, I'm just not on any of them; but they, in the cobwebs of their collective minds, have what you need.

Ivan

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I was at my club on the 4th, practicing with a handgun and ran into one of the trustees testing an old SxS with Damascus barrels. It didn't blow up with some 2 3/4 dram Black Powder loads so today (Wednesday) we are shooting Black Powder Skeet. That will perturb/ P.O. some of they other shooters! He is using plastic hulls with wads I gave him when I moved. He loaded on a MEC Jr/600 press and powdered off press.

I tell you: Once you go Black, you'll never go back!

Ivan

 

[2152hq]

You probably won't find loads for Brass shotshells around.
I'd just load them with the same smokeless powder load as my plastic cases,,but use appropriate dia card and fiber overpowder and filler wads.
Build the wad colume to a height needed for the shot load you are using (3/4oz) that brings the shot just below the case mouth.

Top w/an overshot wad. Seal in place w/a dab of latex window caulk. Give the dab of caulk on the top of the overshot wad a twist with your thumb and it'll spread itself nicely into the corner of the wad & case. Let it dry.

The card & fibre wads not being as efficient as the plastic wad used in the original recipe will lower pressure.
I shoot a 3/4oz load in 12ga (plastic) all the time using a recipe from the book for a 7/8oz load. Just sub'ing 3/4oz of lead for 7/8. Again less weight, less pressure. I use Clays powder. Been using this for 20 years or so in all sorts of vintage guns incl damascus.
The book pressure w/the 7/8oz load is something like 6800psi.
Reduce the lead to 3/4 oz,,,go to card and fiber wads,,,go to a card over shot wad (not even a crimp really),,,,My thinking is that the pressure is the same or down from that figure.
But that's just my take on it of course.
Opinions vary and I respect that...

My older shotshell reloading manual(s) list card&fiber wad loads. Most are in paper shotshells.
The powder loads in grains are usually a couple grains MORE than the plastic wads/plastic shell recipes. Again the reason for that is the card and fibre wads are less efficient than the plastic and it took a bit more powder to give the same velocity in the card/fiber wad set up.

Wads are just stacked to take up the space to give a good crimp.
*A few loads started to use plastic and fiber wads in the early 60's as the cupped plastic over powder wads came into being (Alcan & Federal). These were more efficient than the simple cardboard overpowder wad and the powder load in grains will generally be then reduced somewhat to show that when these are called for in the recipe.