Modify a carry pistol? Yes or No?

[Florida J Frame]

And if you research some of Ayoob's writing, you will find that his version can be very different from the factual version.

Can you quote an example of that? I'm rather familiar with his work and I've never come across that issue.

 

[shooter5112]

Can you quote an example of that? I'm rather familiar with his work and I've never come across that issue.

Three that I can recall off the top of my head:

NY v Magliato (light trigger)
NJ v Bias (reloads)
FL v Alvarez (light trigger)

 

[danysw]

This subject has been treated in all firearms forums and never gets a solution. IMHO there are two situations, one is an accidental shoot or misfire, the other is a self-defense shoot. In the first one the condition of the firearm is important and the modification of the factory parts could be used against the owner because the accident could be triggered by the mod itself and you are responsible of it. On the contrary in a self-defense situation when you choose to shoot is because you consciously want or need to do so, in that position the condition of the firearm is not relevant, it's not important the way or method you use if you are in need to defend your life, if the gun is modified is as relevant as if you use a baseball bat, knife, frying pan or a hammer, your intention was to attack an opponent trying to harm you in order to preserve your life.

 

[Smitty357]

Can ANY of the people that say DONT modify a pistol trigger share a SINGLE case where in a self defense shooting a modified trigger caused a problem for the legal shooter?

ANYONE?

Bueller?

I think people are being paranoid a bit here.

I think people arent wise that reduce their trigger pull below 4 lbs, because of the higher odds of a
negligent discharge.

I sleep fine with a trigger on my M&P modified to 4.5 plus pounds.

I dont aim at anything I dont intend to shoot
I dont have my finger in the trigger well unless i intend to shoot
I wont put myself at risk for $120 bucks in the 7-11 drawer unless an
innocent is at risk.

The ole saying down here in the South is "There is a lawyers name written on every bullet u carry."

You modify a carry pistol and use it. You better have one hell of a defense lawyer to back u up. Because the other guy or his family will have hundreds of lawyers lined up ready to take their case.

PS: A while back a burglar broke into a families home while the family was gone. The guy managed to fall and break his leg in the house while coming down the stairs. The guy called 911 from the house and the ambulance picked him up from there........Home owners insurance ended up paying for the guys accident, even though he was in someone elses house.

 

[Dean1818]

The ole saying down here in the South is "There is a lawyers name written on every bullet u carry."

You modify a carry pistol and use it. You better have one hell of a defense lawyer to back u up. Because the other guy or his family will have hundreds of lawyers lined up ready to take their case.

PS: A while back a burglar broke into a families home while the family was gone. The guy managed to fall and break his leg in the house while coming down the stairs. The guy called 911
from the house and the ambulance picked him up from there........Home owners insurance ended up paying for the guys
accident, even though he was in someone elses house.

I am from Texas..... About as far south as you can go....
Texas law protects the legal shooter from what you describe

 

[Smitty357]

I am from Texas..... About as far south as you can go....
Texas law protects the legal shooter from what you describe

Keyword TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!

Step over here next door to Louisiana and take a look at some of our screwed up laws.

I'd love to see Louisiana adopt some of Texas laws. For instance in Texas you can CC in an establishment even if the establishment posts a sigh that says "No Firearms allowed". That is of course as long as you have ur CCL and its a private business, not federal.....Step into Louisiana and u can not CC in an establishment that has a sign "no firearms", even if u have a CCL.......Carry a firearm in one of those establishments and for some reason need to use it. And u'll have lawyers eating u alive for carrying a firearm in a no firearm free zone.

Laws differ from State to state. So if u live in a screwed up State with screwed up laws and jave lawsuit happy people that will sue over anything. You may as well keep ur carry weapon as factory as possible.

PS: Do u remember the lawsuit years ago where the woman spilled hot coffee from Mcdonalds into her lap? She sued Mcdonalds and won the lawsuit..........You telling me she expected the coffee to be cold, LoL.

 

[shooter5112]

Keyword TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!

Step over here next door to Louisiana and take a look at some of our screwed up laws.

I'd love to see Louisiana adopt some of Texas laws. For instance in Texas you can CC in an establishment even if the establishment posts a sigh that says "No Firearms allowed". That is of course as long as you have ur CCL and its a private business, not federal.....Step into Louisiana and u can not CC in an establishment that has a sign "no firearms", even if u have a CCL.......Carry a firearm in one of those establishments and for some reason need to use it. And u'll have lawyers eating u alive for carrying a firearm in a no firearm free zone.

Laws differ from State to state. So if u live in a screwed up State with screwed up laws and jave lawsuit happy people that will sue over anything. You may as well keep ur carry weapon as factory as possible.

PS: Do u remember the lawsuit years ago where the woman spilled hot coffee from Mcdonalds into her lap? She sued Mcdonalds and won the lawsuit..........You telling me she expected the coffee to be cold, LoL.

When was anyone prosecuted in Louisiana for defending himself with a gun in a "gun-free" zone? When was anyone sued in Louisiana for using a modified weapon?

 

[ABMI]

I guess I'm in the its OK to customize a carry gun.
Serrations, stippling, trigger, night sites

Andy

 

[s&wbest]

Something to consider when choosing a side arm with an exposed spur or trigger modification.

Maybe this swat officer wished he had a modified spur on his weapon.

Officer hurt after accidental shooting at SWAT Conference | WANE

I was working in the neighborhood next to the Allen County Sheriff shooting range and thought that it was in heavy use that day. Indiana Swat shooting conference of over 300 officers. One learned the hard way about snagging a weapon on draw and shot himself in the leg. These are the highly trained experts. An average citizen would want to consider having a trigger or spur that could catch on clothing.

 

[federali]

The Correct Answer is Yes and No

Some mods are unnecessary. Others may be good or popular but executed poorly by an untrained person. Take the case of people backing off the strain screw on an S&W revolver, believing it to be an action adjustment screw. Back it off far enough and the gun no longer fires.

Perhaps the only real cause for concern is defeating a safety mechanism such as removing a magazine disconnect. If you have such a gun, it would be wise to notify a purchaser, in writing, that such a modification was made and the gun will fire the chambered round, with or without a magazine.

 

[RobzGuns]

Wow!! Zombie Thread resurrection!

 

[dberry]

I heard this argument since I got into firearms but havent really seen proof in court cases of a modified firearm being the defining factor in a conviction. Ive pondered this myself lately since Im currently carrying a modified firearm which is a taurus pt1911. Long story short I bought it used and the previous owner loctited the overtravel screw in so far that the hammer was tearing at the sear so I had to grind away enough of the hammer half cock notch to clear the sear. Ive tried every way to free up the screw and it wont budge. The easy way would be to buy a new hammer and sear and possibly thumb safety but I had NO way of affording them. Upon initial inspection of the gun I noticed the firing pin block spring was gone. I called Taurus and they refused to sell or send me a new FP block spring. Ive tried a colt spring and it wont fit. It is reliable in the 300 rounds ive put through it but would it hurt me in court? Im in the process of getting a better extractor,series 80 delete shim,hammer and sear. Im personally blame taurus for producing a proprietary design and then refusing to support it.

 

[dullh]

Modify a carry pistol? Yes AND no...

Yes: Apex kit. Night Sights. Action job (revolvers). Stuff like that is OK.

NO: Disabling safeties or whacking them off. Weaker springs for a lighter pull. This kind of stuff can be a problem if you ever have to use your carry piece for real.

 

[DocSunShine]

Accidental discharge is the question. With a bone stock gun, you will be liable, as somehow during handling of the gun it discharged. Depending on the circumstances you could face criminal charges, but for injury or death you would certainly face civil charges. The civil attorney suing you may also go after the gun manufacturer (deep pockets).

With modifications to a gun, the first question would be "could those modifications have made the gun less safe than the stock gun? Was the cause of the discharge related to any of the modifications?" If the answer is yes, or could be yes, to either of those questions, then you could criminally face some type of negligent charges (you did not intend it to happen). If you are sued in a civil court, the modifications will be used to to convince the jury to award higher damages, as the gun was "not safe and was more likely to discharge". With modifications to the gun, the gun manufacturer would most likely not be included in the lawsuit.

The above is for accidental discharge. If you shoot someone with intent (you thought about it, took action, and completed your intent), then any modifications would not matter. It is like someone said, if you had a trigger that was so light it would fire if a fly landed on it, it still would not matter. It was not an accidental discharge. You had intent (thought about shooting the person, even for only a second). You took action (you aimed the gun and pulled the trigger). You completed your intent (the gun fired and the bullet hit your target). In this situation, depending on the circumstances, the charges could be nothing (a self defense situation) all the way up to fist degree murder (you planned it and carried it out).

Even if this shooting was determined to be an obvious SD situation, and no criminal charges are filed, you still will likely be sued by the victim, or the victim's family. You could be totally in the right by defending yourself or family, and you will still be sued. Most people are not aware of the costs of defending themselves in a "good" shooting. As we all know, in our country you can sue for almost anything. The costs for defending yourself falls upon yourself, with little chance of recovering those costs.

Bob

Bingo, and since I'm responsible for every round that leaves my barrel I absolutely make any and all modifications that allow me to hit my target more accurately with more speed... A prosecutor who is hell bent on trying to send you to prison will use any and everything against you. Zimmerman's prosecutor argued him carrying with a round in the chamber meant he was out for blood... How'd that work out for the prosecution?

Bottom line, a good shoot is a good shoot. Practice gun safety and you won't have to worry about a negligent discharge which will be a problem for you regardless if the gun is bone stock or modified... Disregard those with the chicken little mentality.

 

[DocSunShine]

The ole saying down here in the South is "There is a lawyers name written on every bullet u carry."

You modify a carry pistol and use it. You better have one hell of a defense lawyer to back u up. Because the other guy or his family will have hundreds of lawyers lined up ready to take their case.

PS: A while back a burglar broke into a families home while the family was gone. The guy managed to fall and break his leg in the house while coming down the stairs. The guy called 911 from the house and the ambulance picked him up from there........Home owners insurance ended up paying for the guys accident, even though he was in someone elses house.

Here in Florida using stand your ground gives you immunity from any civil suits and even if you don't use stand your ground (Zimmerman never invoked stand your ground) a civil suit after a not guilty verdict can backfire, why do you think Trayvon Martin's family never attempted a lawsuit?

 

[tat2dchad]

well,,

i asked this same question a while back....

my thought was id rather be alive and maybe getting sued than dead with no options.

if you change anything their will always be someone somewhere looking to use that against you. you maybe be found innocent by law and still get sued in civil court. kind of like OJ Simpson... found not guilty by law and then sued by her family for wrongful death and convicted there.

join the NRA they got people to help in this situation. and then remember not one person here is a lawyer so take anything said by anyone as an opinion and not fact. find a local gun friendly lawyer and either A. keep him on a retainer or B. meet with him and get facts about the law. because if this ever happens and your defense is a guy on the S&W forums told me..... see ya in 25

 

[Doug M.]

Actually, there are several lawyers on the forum, but all of us will provide disclaimers about how we are not YOUR lawyer (which is not done to be obnoxious, but to cover our "selves" with regard to Bar consequences of being accused of having formed an attorney-client relationship, practicing in a state in which we are not admitted, or other unpleasantness).

My response to this string is on page 1, I believe. Go read it and see if that helps with general concepts.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Short answer. No.
Long answer, only make modifications that are appropriate and useful. A bad trigger can be adjusted. Sights can be realigned. Normal stuff that's not cowboy crazy. Superlight trigger for instance - NO! And so forth. If it ain't broke, in this case, definitely don't fix it.

If you want my legal theories, and I am a lawyer, PM me.

***GRJ***

 

[Roger S&W]

No. The only exception (in my case) is adding night sights. For others, may be adding a grip sleeve or whatever. But never mess with the internals of a CCW. I would even advise against ever adding mag extensions that alter the number of rounds. Those have proven, in many cases , to be unreliable. It changes the internal geometry as relates to the mag spring.

 

[Rick_A]

My latest two carry guns are essentially box stock.

My first, has undergone many changes due to changes in tastes, preferences, and due to damage incurred.

The most important thing is that they all work safely, reliably and as designed.