Moonclip Madness 25-2

[Talan2000]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the earlier suggestions on the 25-2 trigger.

Ok, second issue. When using metal moonclips or RIMZ moonclips, I get FTF with 45ACP rounds in double action. 100% firing with single action using the same moonclips. Maybe 50% with moonclips - seems to work better with faster rate of fire (cylinder turning rather than slow double action pull).

Primer strikes are not faint - but they are light - and a bit off center. Double action second strikes will generally not ignite the primers but a single action pull always does.

So - simple solution - shoot single action problem solved. Ok, but I want to understand why. Clearly the moonclips are softening the blow the primers receive - and it would seem causing an off center strike (maybe because the rounds are sitting higher?).

Another piece of data - if I load the 45 ACP rounds without using moonclips I get better double action ignition but still do get 30-50% failure to ignite. So maybe the madness isn't moonclip related after all?

What might be the cause? (Mainspring screw seems fully screwed in and not "too tight". Action is fine, with a slight takeu p i the single action trigger (as noted in earlier thread).

Is this common? Any solution 25-2 shooters have discovered?

Thanks!

Todd

 

[bigggbbruce]

Check that the strain screw is tight. DA light primer strikes are the first that happens.

Oops. Reread and saw you checked that.

 

[walter o]

Maybe someone dressed the strain screw ? Try slipping a spent primer on the strain screw end and against the main spring, see if that helps.

 

[Talan2000]

How tight is tight?

Ok guys, thanks for the fast responses.

So Full Disclosure - I'm not sure how to measure how "tight" the strain screw is...it's flush with the grip frame and not loose. Is it supposed to be torqued in some specific amount? How would I measure that? Should I just really bear down on it?

Not sure I followed the spent primer guidance? Can you elaborate? Oh I see - put a cap on the end of the screw...and I guess "dressed" is fancy talk for filed down ? I'll go get the gun and see if my amateur eyes can tell anything

I'm convinced there is something that has been lightened to cause this -and from reading here the only thing that I can figure is that it is the strain screw...especially since FTF happens in double action with no moonclips.

T

 

[bigggbbruce]

WalterO is saying that maybe the strain screw has been filed. (common Bubba trigger job) I don't have the specs. on length but putting a primer cup between the spring and screw to give it more tension, may ignite your rounds.

Geeps I'm slow.. already figured it out..

 

[Talan2000]

Ok guys, thanks for the tips.

I removed the Hogue grip and inspected the screw. It measures almost exactly 1/2in in length (left it in the frame and measured from frame to end of screw so not super precise) and the screw shows no appearance of having been shortened or molested in any way (no cuts or blueing scratches) ...

There's no gap at all between the mainspring and the screw - not enough for a spent primer to fit in anyway - but I guess one would back off the screw enough for it to fit and then tighten to add a primer cap width in length...I may try that but I'd feel better if I knew the screw was supposed to be .61 or somesuch.

I took a pic of the firing pin as well as that is the only other thing I can think of - but I really doubt that as it smashes the primers plenty deep in single action...anyone know the factory length of the firing pin?






Todd

 

[mmande]

That is not a factory strain screw. They were never threaded all the way to the end. As suggested above put a spent primer cap, with the anvil removed, between the screw and the spring. The spring should tighten so that it has the same angle as the frame cut shown in your picture. You can see a gap or difference in that angle now.
I hope that this helps.
Mike

 

[tomcatt51]

That is not a factory strain screw. They were never threaded all the way to the end.

Or it's been filed down to shorten it.

An 8-32 socket set screw makes a good strain screw replacement to get you functioning and verify that's the issue and is easy to adjust. You can screw it in 'til you get reliable ignition. It's a common thread and they're available in many hardware stores, Ace, True Value, etc. You'll want to Loctite it but the stock strain screw should also be loctited. Purple Loctite 222 is appropriate.

As to why it only mis-fires in DA:
Cock the gun SA. See where the hammer sits, how far back. Now pull the trigger in DA. You'll see the hammer never comes back that far in DA. That's why you can get light DA strikes but it's just fine SA.

 

[aphelion]

What it oughta look like -

 

[Talan2000]

Wow thanks guys I guess bubba got me! I will look for an 8-32 screw at the hardware store. Anyone know the length it's supposed to be? And where one could order a real replacement? (Numritch?). Are these screws the same for all n frames?

Thanks for the picture! That's very revealing!

Stuck at love field today due to storms wish I could be working on this gun

T

 

[S&WIowegan]

Your gun has definitely been "bubba ed" . The strain screw in your gun is not OEM. Don't worry about what the "right" length for the 8/32 screw is...just buy several lengths and try them out until you find reliable ignition with the screw turned all the way in. No rocket science here, just common sense.

One other possibility is that bubba might have removed the mainspring and bent it to give a lighter trigger pull. Don't worry about this until you've done the strain screw fix.

Good luck.

 

[srgvaz]

I would contact s&w for a correct replacement screw. Bubbu already fixed it with a hardware store screw.

 

[jimmyj]

Replace mainspring and tension screw with new ones.
check chambers to ensure that they are clean and smooth
Check moon clips to ensure that they are completely flat

 

[tomcatt51]

I will look for an 8-32 screw at the hardware store. Anyone know the length it's supposed to be?

Usually 1/2" for square butts. Get a socket set screw (8-32) with no "head". It will allow a considerable range of adjustments. All my stainless S&W revolvers have had their strain screws replaced with 8-32 socket set screws but they're hidden under my Herretts grips. Factory strain screws will give a better appearance with grips that don't cover the grip frame but the socket set screw will work 'til you can get one. You'll probably have to trim a new factory screw, if you can find one. S&W does, they're trimmed to length and one of the few really "fitted" parts.

As you're seeing some of our "purists" hate this "improper" mod (and even its' being suggested) but it works very well. Use purple Loctite 222 on whichever you go with.

 

[Inusuit]

What it oughta look like -

This falls in the one picture is worth a thousand words department. Thanks for the excellent information.

 

[steelslaver]

How to adjust a new screw. Install new screw tight, Fire 6 rounds, should all fire. Turn out one turn, fire 6. If they all fire turn out another 1/2 turn and check again. Keep doing this until you get fail to fires. Once you get fail to fires turn in 1/2 turn and fire a bunch of rounds to make sure it never fails. Once you know where it always fires turn it all the way in tight and keep track of how many 1/4 turns it takes to go from always fires to tight. Lets say it takes 6 1/4 increment turns to tighten. With 32 to the inch turns each complete turn is .03125 and each 1/4 is .0078. So you need to remove 6X.0078 or .0468. Measure total length of screw and subtract. Leave it a little long and slightly domed. I would rather some extra and complete reliability than be right on the edge. CCI primers have a reputation of being hard to fire, so using them for testing isn't a bad idea. If you reload you can do it in the shop just using primed cases.

 

[Mercury]

While temporarily out of stock, Midway carries them. I would imagine that Brownells does too.
Follow this link for a picture of what it looks like:
Smith & Wesson Strain Screw S&W 24 25 27 28 29 57 Round Butt Matte

...Mercury

 

[H Richard]

You have been give good information, but one other source of misfires in a Mod 25 is not seating the moon clip firmly. If just dropped in there can be a few .000" between it and the cylinder face, enough to absorb the impact of a hammer-fall. Normally a second strike should set it off as the impact of the first one should set it in place.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Search "Smith Wesson Strain Screw" on Ebay. Plenty of them there.

 

[Talan2000]

Well guys, I know you have probably been losing sleep over this so I thought I'd give you the conclusion.

Ordered a replacement screw from ebay - thanks for the heads up - but ended up not using it.

Took the gun to my local old school gunsmith who had a pile of original screws laying around. The existing strain screw had been bubba-ed as we all knew -- upon removal it was clearly not a smith screw and it had been filed down. He replaced it.

I also had a problem with the trigger. It had a hitch in single action and light strikes in double action (see strain screw). Bubba had worked on the hammer as well.

The smith reground the "notch" in the hammer and it is now crisp in single action. Haven't had a chance to go to the range to test light strikes in double action but I feel confident that it's all good now.

Yeah