My 10mm Saga

[PowerDemon]

Has anyone thought of using a spacer in the magazine to increase spring pressure? I would be willing to sacrifice a round or two if it meant the pistol would function properly.. I saw some of the Gen 3 G20 guys did that using a .460 Rowland spring. I wonder if we could do something similar for these pistols.

 

[PowerDemon]

Rule of thumb - Don't buy newly introduced firearm until it's been in production for at least 1 year .

In a perfect world nobody should buy the first edition of anything. But someone has to do it. If nobody did they'd never be able to develop a good product!

 

[Frank Black]

Yes, on the FTF photos forwarded to Smith, I provided the ammunition detail for their review. I also test fired all of the same ammunition lots through my old Gen. 2 Glock model 20 and experienced no issues whatsoever.

The following is a list of ammunition with which my MP 2 routinely failed to function:
Fiocchi 180 gr. FMJ rated @1250 FPS
Underwood 200 gr. Hard Cast rated @1250 FPS
Hornady 10mm Auto 180 Grain XTP rated @1275 FPS

On the 10mm's energy curve, the Fiocchi and Hornady 180grn 10mm ammo @ 1250fps are mid- to upper mid-range loads. Full-power would be 1300-1350fps for that bullet-weight.

So, if the M&Ps won't run hitch-free on mid-range 10mm factory ammo, you can forget expecting them to digest the high-performance stuff.

All three of my Glock 10mms have had NO issues firing mid-range, upper-mid range, and full-power ammo, not to mention handloads of similar power.

I believe that Smith has a design failure with the MP 2 in 10mm and a remedy will only come with a focused reengineering effort.

Agree.

As an aside, Underwood and Buffalo Bore ammunition is very commonly used in woods-carry handguns in the northern Rockies.

And, maybe especially, in Alaska where full-throttle (i.e., "real") 10mm ammo is kept stocked in relative abundance on the shelves of any retail outfit selling ammo up there, which includes grocery stores in some places.
And ditto for Double Tap's 10mm ammo.

 

[Tannhauser]

In a perfect world nobody should buy the first edition of anything. But someone has to do it. If nobody did they'd never be able to develop a good product!

Exactly. It makes no sense. If every time a gun maker released a new design no one bought them, they'd consider that design a failure and stop making them.

For me, the better rule of thumb is am I buying a gun because I'm interested in it or am I buying a gun because I NEED it.

If the latter, I would personally always stick to a design that, in the configuration being offered, has been on the market for a while and has developed a reputation for consistency in QC.

I bought the M&P 10 because I was interested in it. I've also been willing to make some modifications. I had no expectation that S&W would get it 100% right out of the box across all the guns released on the first shot. That's not how it works in 2022.

I know that many people still have the idea that gun makers shouldn't ship a design until they're completely certain the design is 100% good to go. That's not how the world works anymore.

 

[Tannhauser]

On the 10mm's energy curve, the Fiocchi and Hornady 180grn 10mm ammo @ 1250fps are mid- to upper mid-range loads. Full-power would be 1300-1350fps for that bullet-weight.

So, if the M&Ps won't run hitch-free on mid-range 10mm factory ammo, you can forget expecting them to digest the high-performance stuff.

All three of my Glock 10mms have had NO issues firing mid-range, upper-mid range, and full-power ammo, not to mention handloads of similar power.


Agree.


And, maybe especially, in Alaska where full-throttle (i.e., "real") 10mm ammo is kept stocked in relative abundance on the shelves of any retail outfit selling ammo up there, which includes grocery stores in some places.
And ditto for Double Tap's 10mm ammo.

What barrel length pistol are you basing your velocity numbers for the various tiers of 10mm power?

I ask out of curiosity because loading 180 gr JHP in new starline brass I went up to book max with Blue Dot and got nowhere near 1300 fps. A bit over 1200 out of the M&P 4.6" barrel was it, and for the bullet I was testing by far the best accuracy was a few tenths below book max at 1200 fps.

I don't really think I could even get 1300 fps out of Blue Dot. I was running every load over a LabRadar, and as I approached the max charge the increase in velocity with each increase of .3 gr of powder was very small.

 

[Racer X]

What barrel length pistol are you basing your velocity numbers for the various tiers of 10mm power?

I ask out of curiosity because loading 180 gr JHP in new starline brass I went up to book max with Blue Dot and got nowhere near 1300 fps. A bit over 1200 out of the M&P 4.6" barrel was it, and for the bullet I was testing by far the best accuracy was a few tenths below book max at 1200 fps.

I don't really think I could even get 1300 fps out of Blue Dot. I was running every load over a LabRadar, and as I approached the max charge the increase in velocity with each increase of .3 gr of powder was very small.

Maybe that's why there is a 6" Glock 10mm, with aftermarket barrels up to 9" (that I have seen)

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

Same problem, both my 4" and my buddies 4.6".
SNIP

Welp, that answers my question. I was gonna post and ask if Smith has a longslide model coming out. 5.5" barrel, like the MP9 2.0 that I EDC.

Now I guess I'll wait until Smith sorts this issue out. Many carry a 10mm for dangerous game backup. For me that would be Texas hogs. It must cycle reliably.

BTW, I don't see any barrel length other than 4.6" on Smith's website. Perhaps I overlooked it.

 

[mitchjt]

Being a 10MM fan and Smith loyalist I have been waiting for this 10MM for years. I used to be one of the first to buy, remember 356 S&W? I was right there. Now I wait and see. When Smith or someone here states the problem is solved I will buy one. In the mean time has anyone tried the new Sig X10?

 

[Autonomous]

The Sig X10 looks good.
10mm new releases seem to have more than their share of issues, hopefully Sig hasn't rushed this one to market.

 

[Ethang]

I was able to shoot an early release sample and was very impressed, but my round count was small and the ammo was lower end Freedom rounds. My rep said the factory prototypes had been developed with full power rounds, and had performed well. Given the amount of issues being reported I am wondering what has happened with the production release.

 

[10mm_Bob]

Just adding my .02 on this thread. I picked up one of the M&P 2.0 10mm's (4" barrel) at my LGS over the weekend. I always test anything I buy there at their range before bringing it home. I ran 200rds of range ammo through it with no problem, and then ran 10 rounds of Doubletap 165 gr. Golden Saber (1425 fps in 4.5" barrel). Had no issues. I don't usually shoot the heavier rounds like everyone is talking about here, but I may try a few and report back if I see issues. The one thing I noticed when just checking it out in the store was that the spring feels pretty soft for a 10mm. As you can see from my member ID, I'm kinda a fan of the 10mm, and currently own a few. With every 10mm I've ever owned, I always change the spring to fit the load. I think the factory springs are "for the masses" who shoot primarily range ammo or the typical "weak" 10mm loads. I'll definitely get a spring kit for this one and dial it in like I have with all my 10mm firearms. I reload for my 10mm stuff, so my practice ammo is usually close to my carry ammo. I didn't buy this one to carry, but I like the feel of it a lot, and may get a holster for it in case I change my mind. If I carry a 10mm, it's a custom 1911 I had built by Dave Severns (Dan Wesson Razorback with a bobtail). I happened to be carrying it when I bought this M&P one, and shot my carry ammo through the new one to see how it handled it. With summer here in Florida, I'll likely switch to carrying my Springfield Hellcat til the cooler weather comes back and cover shirts aren't unbearable LOL. Anyway, I'll have to see if I can figure out what spring weight Smith & Wesson is using stock, and increment up from there til I find that "sweet spot" where the slide just works smoothly and the recoil is more of a "roll" than a punch.

 

[CP38]

I have just received an email advising me that my MP 2 10mm is on its way back to me from Smith's repair shop. I will certainly report on what they did and did not do once it is in hand.

 

[DesertFox]

Fondled the new XD in 10mm, which speaks to me more so than the M&P offerings. Prefer the 1xx6 feel to the M&P feel I guess.

 

[Euclid]

CP 38 - Have you tested your recently returned pistol yet?

 

[CP38]

The following tasks were listed on a S and W work order that accompanied my returned firearm:

Evaluate/Repair
Replace Extractor
Polish Barrel/Chamber
Passed Range Test

The feed ramp has undergone a significant reshaping and was also polished baby-butt smooth (see photo).

I fired 50rds of Fiocchi 180 gr. FMJ, 40rds of Underwood 200 gr. HCFN and 50rds of Sellier and Bellot 180 gr. FMJ during today's range session. I had only one FTF with an Underwood round and one Sellier and Bellot round (range ammo) that did not go completely into battery. Because I believe that I may have limp-wristed the preceding Underwood FTF round, I am feeling a lot better about the woods carry reliability of my MP 2 10mm. After I get 500 rounds or so through this guy, I'll come back to this thread and provide a more detailed report. Oh by the way, the paper punching accuracy of this pistol is excellent.

 

[reynman83]

4" 10MM RMR and FTF Issues

I have a 4" 10MM Model that has been sent back to S&W just last week for these FTF issues that are being discussed. In my case, it didn't matter what ammo was used. S&B 180gr FMJ to LAX 180gr FMJ to Fiocchi 180gr JHP to Winchester Defender 180gr JHP. Anything and everything would have a FTF at some point. The hotter JHP loads more than the others. 250-300rds thru it. I also used the "CORE" RMR Mounting solution provided in the box to mount a SwampFox Justice to it. After coming loose twice, the mounting plate posts sheared into my Optic, and the RH slide mount screw decided to finally shear and leave itself in the slide. At that point it went back to SW. Awaiting a result from them currently. Every other SW MP that I have (Shield Plus x2, M2.0 40C, MP15) have been nearly flawless in appearance and operation. This 10MM though has been one thing after another. Can only hope they make it right. They are moving their operation to my city (Maryville, TN) soon.

 

[Christopher207]

I have a 4" 10MM Model that has been sent back to S&W just last week for these FTF issues that are being discussed. In my case, it didn't matter what ammo was used. S&B 180gr FMJ to LAX 180gr FMJ to Fiocchi 180gr JHP to Winchester Defender 180gr JHP. Anything and everything would have a FTF at some point. The hotter JHP loads more than the others. 250-300rds thru it. I also used the "CORE" RMR Mounting solution provided in the box to mount a SwampFox Justice to it. After coming loose twice, the mounting plate posts sheared into my Optic, and the RH slide mount screw decided to finally shear and leave itself in the slide. At that point it went back to SW. Awaiting a result from them currently. Every other SW MP that I have (Shield Plus x2, M2.0 40C, MP15) have been nearly flawless in appearance and operation. This 10MM though has been one thing after another. Can only hope they make it right. They are moving their operation to my city (Maryville, TN) soon.

Thanks for sharing, keep us posted.

 

[CP38]

I want to share the conclusion of this saga with the board. I sent my M and P 2.0 compact 10mm pistol back to Smith and Wesson THREE (3) times for them to repair the chronic failure to feed issues that I had been experiencing with it. They were unable to correct the reliability problems with this pistol and my request to replace it with a functioning firearm went unanswered. To make matters worse, the occurrence of light primer strikes was also increasing with use. In my "opinion", the root problem is that the compact chassis lacks sufficient rigidity to accommodate full-house 10 mm loads. Again-just my opinion.

In any event, I went to a local LGS and disclosed the issues and history of this pistol, which resulted in
the inevitable haircut on the trade in value. However, I still wanted to retire my old Glock gen 2 model 20, so I purchased a Springfield XD Elite 4.5" barreled 10mm. Clearly the Springfield is not a compact, but I have put north of 250 rounds of full-house 10mm through it without experiencing any issues whatsoever and for my woods carry purposes it works just fine.

A 10mm M and P pistol that works as advertised:

 

[mark_lives_things]

Sorry you had that experience. Still hoping S&W will make some acknowledgement of their missteps with this gun.

 

[Burke888]

I've now sent my M&P 4.6" 10MM back to Smith and Wesson three times. Three different RMA numbers. My first two trips back I included pictures. This last trip back I didn't include any pictures. Funny enough this time they simply said they range tested the gun and were unable to replicate the issue.

I don't know what else to do at this point. There seems to be some type of issue with the pistol itself. I've tried the home remedies of the Wolff .45 ACP Guide Rod and springs (both 22lbs and 24lbs), a new third magazine, and even aftermarket heavier magazine springs. No luck. I continue to get failure to feed issues just like at the top of this post.