my beliefs on the M&P accuracy issues
- Thread starter Jake D
- Start date
How about a green dot !! Wife has a 4.25 CORE with a rm05g on it . And even the stock 4.5lb trigger was gritty but a striker block change and some polishing dropped it to 4lb 3oz and got it 75% toward gritty proof. Maybe a trigger only to finish it up in the future. .
How are the accuracy issues with the green dot?
My 4.25" Pro Series never had a gritty trigger I just didn't like the long pull and reset. I fitted the full Apex mods got the trigger pull and reset down to about 1/4". Haven't measured the trigger weight but it must be sub 4lbs. Whatever it is it's just right for me. Not too heavy not too light.
tcanthonyii
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I have to agree with the op, the factory trigger is just plain awful and causes the accuracy problems. I shoot mine just fine but I can see where it's a problem. The trigger isn't heavy at all.
I can compare a ruger sr9c and an m&P 9c. They both have 7lb triggers. The difference is my sr9c and sr40c have smooth triggers and the pull is the same all the way through. The smith has a stock gritty trigger that starts out soft and ends hard which make the trigger feel like the 12 lbs on my redhawk but no where near smooth. The apex trigger changes the angle and helps the trigger out. Why on earth smith doesn't make at least the plunger change is beyond me but every other gun in this market has a better factory trigger.
I can compare a ruger sr9c and an m&P 9c. They both have 7lb triggers. The difference is my sr9c and sr40c have smooth triggers and the pull is the same all the way through. The smith has a stock gritty trigger that starts out soft and ends hard which make the trigger feel like the 12 lbs on my redhawk but no where near smooth. The apex trigger changes the angle and helps the trigger out. Why on earth smith doesn't make at least the plunger change is beyond me but every other gun in this market has a better factory trigger.
EnticeTheMalice
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I shoot better with my Shield 9mm than I do with my full size M&P 9. I think the reason I shoot better with the shield is for one reason only. My full size M&P has a stock trigger and my shield has an apex sear installed, which puts the trigger pull on it at 3.18 pounds. I really need to put a full apex kit in my FS M&P or trade it for a glock 17 because after shooting a stock G17 it felt like the trigger and gun were built for my hand.
I have had my FS9 since January 2012, and in that time I have run over 7000 rounds through it. I spend a lot of time focusing on fundamentals. I just put the apex sear in 2 weeks ago , should have done it from the beginning. What lead me to believe it was the heavy trigger was having spent some time with a Glock 26 that my girlfriend just got from her mom(retired Leo) . A lot of people say that Glocks have these awesome triggers, what I noticed was that it was really just a lighter trigger pull.
ATF My wifes 4.25" core had all the same grittiness of the standard model just a lighter trigger pull. I did a basic break in with a stock core- no optic then ordered the apex striker block only and did some polishing of the sear and connector . Cores trigger pull was 4lb 8oz new stock. After 400 rounds it was 4lb 5oz and after the polishing and striker change it dropped to 4lb even. The longer pull was ok for me as I am a old sa/da revolver shoot and carried kahrs . Easier to take up the slack and stage the trigger. I just don't shoot for accuracy during breakin. Just banging rounds and reloading . Beside at this point of my life I would need a fine post and gold bead front sight and better rear sight to shoot a respectable group.
Now with the apex block and polishing the trigger pull was 85% toward being smooth . The trijicon RW05g green dot is a 9moa dot so its covering 2 1/4" at 25 yards. It makes the 9mm core easy to shoot ragged holes at 10 to 12 yards with some 124gr bayou bullet reloads. . I use a 4" red aiming dot at 25 yards so a bit of red can be seen around the green dot and with some 124gr underwood speer hp +P it will place all the rounds inside a 3 1/2" to 3 1/4" group. Not measured ., just inside the 4" circle . I can not expect more from Myself the trigger and the one load tried at 25 yards. A slower more normal defense load might be more accurate. , maybe a heavier or liter or different bullet . I did not try the reloads at 25 yards.
I added a straight fss to my 40 with safety. 4lb pull now . Gona change sites too. Need something narrowed up for better groups.
Now with the apex block and polishing the trigger pull was 85% toward being smooth . The trijicon RW05g green dot is a 9moa dot so its covering 2 1/4" at 25 yards. It makes the 9mm core easy to shoot ragged holes at 10 to 12 yards with some 124gr bayou bullet reloads. . I use a 4" red aiming dot at 25 yards so a bit of red can be seen around the green dot and with some 124gr underwood speer hp +P it will place all the rounds inside a 3 1/2" to 3 1/4" group. Not measured ., just inside the 4" circle . I can not expect more from Myself the trigger and the one load tried at 25 yards. A slower more normal defense load might be more accurate. , maybe a heavier or liter or different bullet . I did not try the reloads at 25 yards.
I added a straight fss to my 40 with safety. 4lb pull now . Gona change sites too. Need something narrowed up for better groups.
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Hardluk. Dawson Precision make some excellent fine sights. A 9 MOA dot is very big and not really suited for target practice. A smaller dot or the triangle would be better, but using a dot just goes to show that the accuracy of the M&P is more of an operator error than the gun itself.
I'm not a target shooter I prefer to shoot metal targets at an outdoor range.
I'm not a target shooter I prefer to shoot metal targets at an outdoor range.
Nonsense. Anyone can learn to shoot well if they have decent vision and hand/eye coordination and they are willing to work for it. Exceptional shooters are those who refuse to accept mediocrity and keep pushing themselves. Learn to shoot well and you will shoot well with anything.
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ATF 9moa sight is only 2 1/4" at 25 and for anyone try'n put rounds on a BG or steel it is more than accurate enough and easier to see quickly. Reason I like the rm05g is no battery and never off and has tritium insert and makes a good all around optic for a handgun . I have hunted with a 3" moa red dots on revolvers since the mid '70s now with my an old DW's 44mag and a burris 135 speed dot but also know a smaller dot on a handgun is not the best option when try'n a fast close up shot . Get a hog run'n at you at 15 yards and your suddenly point shooting and try'n to get behind a tree as that 3moa dot at 10 yards is only marking a .33" dot and where the heck is it !! . But its fine for controlled shoots and for longer range . Not so great up close for defensive needs on a handgun.
I'm not a target shooter ether , probably why my groups were not better . I most times shoot my revolvers from some kind of rest . I shoot enough to know a firearm and my load and prefer shooting deer or pigs for the freezer but I mainly practice defense shooting . Draw and fire drills and point shooting . The trijicon is my wifes and she is happy with it and that's what matters. I have not shot a match in some years and found them boring inn general. That will draw some flack .
Oh you may want to take notice what seasoned pro uspsa shooters use for dots since your a steel shooter. The 6 to 8" dot is the norm with a few 4" and some using 12moa dots for steel challenge matchs .
I'm not a target shooter ether , probably why my groups were not better . I most times shoot my revolvers from some kind of rest . I shoot enough to know a firearm and my load and prefer shooting deer or pigs for the freezer but I mainly practice defense shooting . Draw and fire drills and point shooting . The trijicon is my wifes and she is happy with it and that's what matters. I have not shot a match in some years and found them boring inn general. That will draw some flack .
Oh you may want to take notice what seasoned pro uspsa shooters use for dots since your a steel shooter. The 6 to 8" dot is the norm with a few 4" and some using 12moa dots for steel challenge matchs .
A handgun designed for defense....
A handgun that is designed primarily for defense may not be a great target pistol. To use it that way you have to learn to deal with it. I have a DAO trigger and once I figured out how to detach my trigger finger from the rest of my hand, things greatly improved. I still don't make 2" groups, but I'm trying.
A handgun that is designed primarily for defense may not be a great target pistol. To use it that way you have to learn to deal with it. I have a DAO trigger and once I figured out how to detach my trigger finger from the rest of my hand, things greatly improved. I still don't make 2" groups, but I'm trying.
Nonsense. Anyone can learn to shoot well if they have decent vision and hand/eye coordination and they are willing to work for it. Exceptional shooters are those who refuse to accept mediocrity and keep pushing themselves. Learn to shoot well and you will shoot well with anything.
You're absolutely right, anyone can learn to be a good shooter. The problem is that the AVERAGE person does not take the time and put in the effort to become a good shooter. Instead they would rather just blame the gun. Hell I have friends that are cops and only shoot when they have to qualify. One probably needs to shoot at least once a month just to maintain their current skill level and a lot more in order to improve their skill level.
Hardluk. All I know about dots are Aimpoints and Eotechs so the 9 MOA would seem massive to me, but if your lady is happy that's all that counts.
I gave up on worrying about grouping a long time ago. Although it has it's uses, I'd rather shoot groups of steel discs in a row, it has more purpose in the real world. But hey everyone to their own. If anyone can shoot a 6" steel disc at 50 yards 1 shot out of three they're shooting.
Good luck Buddy.
I gave up on worrying about grouping a long time ago. Although it has it's uses, I'd rather shoot groups of steel discs in a row, it has more purpose in the real world. But hey everyone to their own. If anyone can shoot a 6" steel disc at 50 yards 1 shot out of three they're shooting.
Good luck Buddy.
Aimpoint and eotech on carbines most likely ? It ain't about just may lady ,its what I found being used by many pro's . Went a local uspsa meet to see what the locals were using and forund 8" dots at 2 pistol 6" os a couple. Wife liked them . Only then did we start looking at what brands to get as My wifes not new to dots ether . Shot red dots for years on a 22 ruger pistol .
Maybe its time to ed-u-ma-cate yourself to whats used by the big dogs for optics on handguns too. But I ain't turning a optic in its side as many do. Now ya need a core too .... I enjoyed my wifes pistol and have round a fair number of rounds thru it with the green dot . Might be a day when I carry one. For now my plane jane will do.
So your good enough with your pro to place rounds reliable at 50 yards?? Darn good shooter. That 9" green dot would cover 4 1/2" of that 6" disc at 50 yards . You don't think you could place rounds on reliably if the skill is there and the handgun for it is used .? Not sure if any m&p is . Pretty much near there limits or maybe beyond them them for any but a custom .
Let me grab my revolver and 50 yards should not much of a challenge . But I might need a rest , tree, shooting sticks will do then a hundred yards as fair game. . Well maybe I can be as good as I once was. The revolver still is .
Wife 2 m&ps and my 40 on the bottom. before the apex straight trigger fss kit. .
newgun12-27002_zps8a0a9a61.jpg Photo by hardluk1 | Photobucket
Maybe its time to ed-u-ma-cate yourself to whats used by the big dogs for optics on handguns too. But I ain't turning a optic in its side as many do. Now ya need a core too .... I enjoyed my wifes pistol and have round a fair number of rounds thru it with the green dot . Might be a day when I carry one. For now my plane jane will do.
So your good enough with your pro to place rounds reliable at 50 yards?? Darn good shooter. That 9" green dot would cover 4 1/2" of that 6" disc at 50 yards . You don't think you could place rounds on reliably if the skill is there and the handgun for it is used .? Not sure if any m&p is . Pretty much near there limits or maybe beyond them them for any but a custom .
Let me grab my revolver and 50 yards should not much of a challenge . But I might need a rest , tree, shooting sticks will do then a hundred yards as fair game. . Well maybe I can be as good as I once was. The revolver still is .
Wife 2 m&ps and my 40 on the bottom. before the apex straight trigger fss kit. .
newgun12-27002_zps8a0a9a61.jpg Photo by hardluk1 | Photobucket
keithherrington
Member
Hardluk you're right I don't use and I have no use for a red dot on a handgun but love them on my shotguns. I have no aspirations to be an Olympic shooter, just enjoy shooting. If the pros told you to buy that dot I don't question it. I can't see much of a target beyond 80 yards anyway so unless I bought a scope I couldn't do any better than I can now.
Getting back to the original discussion your wife using a dot shows that accuracy issues are more operator related than gun related.
Getting back to the original discussion your wife using a dot shows that accuracy issues are more operator related than gun related.
keithherrington
Member
Well, I just had a very pleasant surprise at the range today...
I have recently purchased two new M&Ps; one a 9 with a 4.25" barrel and one a 45 with a 4" barrel. I'd shot the 45 earlier and was gratified to see both its accuracy and sight regulation were spot on. But today I shot the 9 with my target load, my carry load and my practice load. Much to my surprise the accuracy and sight regulation with both the carry load and target load were virtually identical, slightly above point of aim at 25 yards and when I did my part, all in the black. Still not as tight as the 45 shoots but very close. Also, much to my surprise the trigger was much smoother than any other M&P I've ever shot. Even the weight was very reasonable. It appears S&W has paid attention to customer complaints and have improved the M&P in response.
Keith
I have recently purchased two new M&Ps; one a 9 with a 4.25" barrel and one a 45 with a 4" barrel. I'd shot the 45 earlier and was gratified to see both its accuracy and sight regulation were spot on. But today I shot the 9 with my target load, my carry load and my practice load. Much to my surprise the accuracy and sight regulation with both the carry load and target load were virtually identical, slightly above point of aim at 25 yards and when I did my part, all in the black. Still not as tight as the 45 shoots but very close. Also, much to my surprise the trigger was much smoother than any other M&P I've ever shot. Even the weight was very reasonable. It appears S&W has paid attention to customer complaints and have improved the M&P in response.
Keith
keithherrington
Member
Just got my M&P 45 back from the Performance Center
Had the action job done by the PC and a tritium front sight installed. $192 total including shipping. Action is superb as expected. Next stop accuracy testing at the range.
Keith
Had the action job done by the PC and a tritium front sight installed. $192 total including shipping. Action is superb as expected. Next stop accuracy testing at the range.
Keith
glwanabe
Member
My M&P 40 puts the round exactly where the barrel is pointing when the trigger breaks. When I'm in doing it right I keep it tight. As of right now my pistol is great in telling me what I'm doing wrong on my pull. Yes the trigger could be lighter, and smoother but I'll wait till I have at least 1000 rounds through it before I mod the pistol. Most issues are with the shooter and not the weapon.
Everything outside of the black is my own poor technique. I haven't shot pistol since I last qual'd in the Army in on the M9 in 1995.
This was mags 10, and 11 through the pistol.
Everything outside of the black is my own poor technique. I haven't shot pistol since I last qual'd in the Army in on the M9 in 1995.
This was mags 10, and 11 through the pistol.
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