My S&W Number 2 Tipper

[McShooty]

I belong to the Missouri Valley Arms Collectors Association (MVACA) and it is an OK organization for one run entirely by volunteers. They have a newsletter and a large vintage arms show in Kansas City in July. They used to have two shows a year, but declining interest in collecting and attendance at shows caused them to go to one show/year only. New blood in collector interest is hard to come by. Some years ago I attended the summer show and saw that Ron Curtis had a table with some S&W tip-ups. I told him I was interested in getting a No. 2 “Old Army” and could I look at his goods. He had a dozen or so No. 2s and some other tip-ups, not very distinguished. Maybe he was culling his holdings. I looked them over and finally asked him “What do you think is the best buy on your table?” This sounds like a dumb question for a knowledgeable gun collector (not me) to ask, but I often ask it of sellers at shows and I think I often learn something useful from their responses. At any rate, after discussion Mr. Curtis and I agreed that the gun shown here was the best buy at $600. So we closed the deal and I took it with me. It has no finish and there is shallow pitting in various areas, but hinge, latch, and cylinder are fairly tight. The bore is not too bad and the grips are good. I thought it could be a shooter if I could find ammo that would work. What I like best is that the serial number of 6207 puts manufacture in 1862, smack dab in the middle of the Civil War.


I know, as many of you do, that Ron Curtis has been interested in antique S&Ws, and that a book on No.2s was in the works. He has a data table of known guns but I think the book has never appeared and I know nothing further. My gun is in the list, apparently shipped to Ben Kittredge and Co., Cincinnati. Ohio. I will describe some shooting experience below, so stay tuned.

 

[McShooty]

For shooting I thought my best bet was the machined .32 Long cases sold by Dixie Gun Works. The comparison cartridge picture shows a 32 S&W CF Long and a 32 S&W (short) at far left and far right, resp. Second from left is a 32 Rimfire Long and second from right is a 32 Rimfire Short. Center left and right are machined Dixie long and short cases loaded with a 0.310 round ball. You can use a .22 blank as a primer in the offset hole machined in the Dixie case. Then fill the case with black powder, I used Pyrodex P, and seat a 0.310 lead round ball in the case mouth. Cases with this load worked OK. In fact, it was a fire breather sending the ball down range at better than 1000 fps. Accuracy was so-so. The group I show was fired at seven yards. Using these cases is tedious and they are too heavy to obturate so blow-by turns a case completely black upon firing. Also, the smallest ding in the case mouth makes it hard to seat a ball. Anyway I got the experience I wanted and I do not intend to shoot this probably tender antique very much.

There is a chance to say here that I think the No. 2 would be a good platform for a replica in, say, .22 Rimfire. A full loop trigger guard would be needed and better support for the cylinder. Wonder if Uberti has ever thought of this.

 

[cgt4570]

I actually bought a 50-round box of CIL ammo at a local gunshow yesterday for $100. Gentleman had picked up 10 various boxes from an estate and was selling 4 of them. 2 long, 2 short. The other long and the 2 short were Navy Arms. I don't have a Smith that shoots them, amazingly, but I've got 2 Remingtons. A medium frame rolling block and a deluxe #4 boys rifle.
I can't believe no one will step up and make a production run. Seeing what the little bit left is selling for (up to $5 a round!), there's a real market.

 

[McShooty]

The 50 count for $100 is actually not too bad. Some modern handgun ammo is going for $2 ea and more.

 

[opoefc]

CIL & Fioche occasionally make runs of these .32RF rounds. A query with them & Navy Arms right get new info. Only Up date I have on Ron Curtis is he calls me every 6 mos, or so to chat, as we go back many years, and he is in a rest home in CA. and told me in last contact about 7 or 8 mos ago that he does not have long to live and was looking for someone to take over the Model Two data base & web page, but I have not seen an obit for him. His book is in manuscript form and is massive, but lackes the info on the Civl War shipped Kittridge Model 2s to the Ky Cavalry. (This Kittridge info is owned and kept confidential by Dr. Roy Jinks, S&W historian) Ron has sent the manuscript to several authors but all declined to be co-authors, as the printers say the book will not sell enuff copies to make any profits ( often the case with single model S&W revolvers ) Ed

 

[McShooty]

Thanks for the info, Ed. I am very sorry to hear that Ron Curtis is on his last lap and I hope someone could be found to finish publication of the book.

 

[Skautdog]

I certainly do not have the expertise, but I agree it would be most helpful and an historical treasure if someone(s) could finish the work started by Mr. Curtis.

 

[Exmilcop]

Up her in the Great White North, .32 rimfire ammo comes up at auction and the prices are nuts! CIL ammo is around $190.-$250. and Navy Arms stuff usually goes for well over $300./box for either short or longs. Don't even get me going on how much a good condition S&W revolver will go for compared to what you guys pay in the states.