My stupid 15-22 questions.

[27 Beck]

Well, we sure are different in our outlook about this, 27 Beck.

I, for one, am less concerned about looks and cool factor. If the Colt 22 was actually made by Colt, not made of pot metal and it had functional controls, I would probably have bought the Colt 22.

I would like to have larger mag capacity. The curved "cool looking" mags are not very functional for 22 beyond 25 rounds. Straight mags, as are the 10 rounders, function far better for 22 and hold a lot more rounds.

You, should not carry ARs in tactical cases with mags inserted, anyway. Not good practice.

Long mags are not good when shooting from a bench? Then use shorter mags at the bench. Ten round mags should become available soon, and they would be good for that.

High capacity mags are for other things. I do though, think that 50 round drums are, pure "cool factor" kids stuff myself. But that's just me, apparently.

Yes, we are different in our outlook on things.

And no where in my post did I say the mags were inserted in the firearm. I guess you do not know what a tactical gun case looks like or how it functions.

 

[Lynn]

Yes, we are different in our outlook on things.

And no where in my post did I say the mags were inserted in the firearm. I guess you do not know what a tactical gun case looks like or how it functions.

Oh, ouch ... .

And the additional length makes them not fit good in tactical cases that have mag pockets.

Maybe not, in the extra cool one, that you have.

 

[paulgl26]

i just got one of the cases that you are talking about with 3 side pockets for mags it is a 32 inch and it was 26$(on sale at cabela's)

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well, longer mags would take on the look of the mags the Colt M4 .22 uses. And the additional length makes them not fit good in tactical cases that have mag pockets. And, longer mags are difficult to shoot when shooting from a bench.

I use an inexpensive 32 inch Uncle Mikes tactical case which is a real good fit for the 15-22.

Yup... tactical case mag pockets aren't going to accept anything much longer than the 15-22 25rd mag. It's already longer than an AR 30rd mag which most all tactical bags are designed to accomodate.

I'd like to have a couple 10rd mags for sighting in new optics from the bench. The 25rd requires the lift of my Midway shooting bag as a rest. Plus... I'd just like to try a 10rd mag to see if it feeds without hanging up rounds.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well, we sure are different in our outlook about this, 27 Beck.

You, should not carry ARs in tactical cases with mags inserted, anyway. Not good practice.

Typically, I keep a post ban 10rd magazine inserted in my Bushmaster AR15. It's a good place to store it because I have the four mag pockets on my ACE tactical case filled with other magazines. What's wrong with that? I certainly hope it's not a critical safety issue to have a magazine in a functional position when not in use..... Geeesh... I'd have to start disassembling all my rifles with tubular magazines... do you now how much of a pain that will be on my Marlin 30-30?

.

 

[Lynn]

Typically, I keep a post ban 10rd magazine inserted in my Bushmaster AR15. It's a good place to store it because I have the four mag pockets on my ACE tactical case filled with other magazines. What's wrong with that? I certainly hope it's not a critical safety issue to have a magazine in a functional position when not in use..... Geeesh... I'd have to start disassembling all my rifles with tubular magazines... do you now how much of a pain that will be on my Marlin 30-30?

.

Ya know common emotional bias, prejudice and mind set, have a powerful effect upon human perception, and in this day and age, the effects of this are both being keenly felt and used to full advantage.

Gun laws vary, often quite widely, from state to state and even county to county or parish to parish.

Such local restrictions, are very often quite vague and open to interpretation, and this is routinely taken advantage of by the state.

Gun laws are purposefully crafted to be vague and confusing, in order to allow the discretion of Law enforcement officers, judges and juries, that they may be selectively applied and enforced. They do this to factor in the evaluation of 'the intent' of gun owners, their level of personal responsibility and yes in the eyes of the LEO and/or a potential Judge and Jury, the mental and emotional fitness of the gun owner 'in question'.

So if you would like to avoid, being 'perceived as' one of those gun owners in question, then I suggest that you be very careful about, exactly in what manner you transport any firearm.

It is just my personal opinion, and what could I possibly know, but I for one do not want to trigger an emotional response from those who have been, aaah, "sensitized" lets say, to those "evil black rifles". I promise you, that the way our 15-22s look, in the eyes of the "sensitized", trumps both their light caliber and your membership in the Elks Club or what have you, and common sense and respect for the average civilian and The Constitution are in very short supply these days, among "the sensitized".

So then, you just go ahead there, ChattanoogaPhil. You transport your 15-22 in a, scary as all get out to them, 'tactical' carry bag with lots and lots of 25 round mags and even an unloaded detachable 10 round mag in the port there. Doing so may even be legal in your state, county or parish. Now personally, gun laws being so vague and open to interpretation, I would not chance it. All of this is only going to get worse too. You can bank on that. A word to the wise.

 

[Thomas_H]

So then, you just go ahead there, ChattanoogaPhil. You transport your 15-22 in a, scary as all get out to them, 'tactical' carry bag with lots and lots of 25 round mags and even an unloaded detachable 10 round mag in the port there.

I don't buy into this line of thought anymore. In fact I believe thinking this way actually sets us back. You do not gain acceptance by hiding. You cannot normalize something that no one can see. A tactical range bag is a far cry from carrying your 15-22 across your chest in a 3 point sling. You cannot let other people's irrational fears control your behavior.

You can however act like a good upstanding citizen. And if anybody questions your tactical range bag with a bunch of standard capacity magazines haning off the side, take the time to politely educate them on the subject. For that matter, offer to take them shooting so you can innoculate them against the PC BS propaganda.

I am however on board with the statement that you need to know the laws in your state regarding transporting firearms.

 

[Lynn]

I don't buy into this line of thought anymore. In fact I believe thinking this way actually sets us back. You do not gain acceptance by hiding. You cannot normalize something that no one can see. A tactical range bag is a far cry from carrying your 15-22 across your chest in a 3 point sling. You cannot let other people's irrational fears control your behavior.

You can however act like a good upstanding citizen. And if anybody questions your tactical range bag with a bunch of standard capacity magazines haning off the side, take the time to politely educate them on the subject. For that matter, offer to take them shooting so you can innoculate them against the PC BS propaganda.

I am however on board with the statement that you need to know the laws in your state regarding transporting firearms.

I admire your turn of phrase, Thomas, and I also think your argument is quite logical. These are not logical times though unfortunately.

I agree that your advice is both sound and reasonable, regarding educating those private citizens, who may express apprehension about a tactical carry bag. The more reasonable, among the public, are not those who give me pause though.

I think the days of acceptance are behind us now. I will be pleased as punch if I can keep my two little 22s. I don't own a 223 anymore. I traded my mini 14 in for my new 15-22. We have one long barrel 223 single shot for hunting deer, and we have a black powder hunting rifle for bigger game.

Now, I hope the mass hysteria now growing beyond all sane bounds of reason, wont get so bad up in these parts that they will feel threatened by my two semi auto 22s. But gosh, one person on the gun forum here today, even took exception to my use of the word "they" and "them", implying that I am the paranoid one. The same person also pointed out my mention, of the biblical last days, as a "bad sign" I suppose. You see how blind crazy people are getting these days? So, yeah, I am going to err on the side of caution.

 

[Thomas_H]

I honestly do not believe that there is a true mass hysteria against firearms. You are falling into the media trap. And the best way that I can describe that trap is "A lie left unchallenged soon becomes truth".

The media keeps telling us that everyone is freaked out about firearms, and no one appears to be challenging that fact, so it must be true. The mass hysteria that you are hearing about is a small percentage of people screaming very loudly. Either out of sheer ignorance, or they have another motive to benefit themselves at the expense of others.

The truth is that millions of people carry firearms every day without incident. Millions use firearms every year to defend themselves, often without firing a single shot. More and more people are coming to the realization that the .gov cannot protect you every second of the day, and the well-being of yourself and your family is in your hands, not the officer who will be there in 15 mintes when you call 911.

[/THREAD HIJACK]

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Ya know common emotional bias, prejudice and mind set, have a powerful effect upon human perception, and in this day and age, the effects of this are both being keenly felt and used to full advantage.

Gun laws vary, often quite widely, from state to state and even county to county or parish to parish.

Such local restrictions, are very often quite vague and open to interpretation, and this is routinely taken advantage of by the state.

Gun laws are purposefully crafted to be vague and confusing, in order to allow the discretion of Law enforcement officers, judges and juries, that they may be selectively applied and enforced. They do this to factor in the evaluation of 'the intent' of gun owners, their level of personal responsibility and yes in the eyes of the LEO and/or a potential Judge and Jury, the mental and emotional fitness of the gun owner 'in question'.

So if you would like to avoid, being 'perceived as' one of those gun owners in question, then I suggest that you be very careful about, exactly in what manner you transport any firearm.

It is just my personal opinion, and what could I possibly know, but I for one do not want to trigger an emotional response from those who have been, aaah, "sensitized" lets say, to those "evil black rifles". I promise you, that the way our 15-22s look, in the eyes of the "sensitized", trumps both their light caliber and your membership in the Elks Club or what have you, and common sense and respect for the average civilian and The Constitution are in very short supply these days, among "the sensitized".

So then, you just go ahead there, ChattanoogaPhil. You transport your 15-22 in a, scary as all get out to them, 'tactical' carry bag with lots and lots of 25 round mags and even an unloaded detachable 10 round mag in the port there. Doing so may even be legal in your state, county or parish. Now personally, gun laws being so vague and open to interpretation, I would not chance it. All of this is only going to get worse too. You can bank on that. A word to the wise.

Since this thread is so FUBAR anyway... I guess I'll reply.

I would like to put a "10 round mag in the port there" but the 10rd mags seem to be unavailable at this time.

As a Tennessee CCW permit holder, it is my responsibility to 'know' the laws that govern my actions regarding weapons transport, carry or otherwise. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and certainly "not good practice".

FYI, a "tactical carry bag" is typically not designed to accomodate rifles. The overall shape is usually like a range bag but often larger with more pockets and compartments designed to fit a wide array of tactical gear. They are popular among law enforcement.

I've never thought of tactical carry bag as looking "scary as all get out". And since I have never seen a transparent tactical carry bag, I'm not sure who would be scared of the bag contents... anymore than someone jumping in fright at the sight of a professional photographers bag.

Tactical rifle cases are often designed with a recognizable shape which tends to advertise contents. That being said, they are typically kept 'inside' the vehicle while transporting, not strapped to the hood embroidered with Sons of Anarchy. So I'm not sure who's sensitivities you're trying to avoid shocking while in transport.

As far as trying to appease hoplophobic bedwetters, I don't subscribe to such notions.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I guess you (Lynn) do not know what a tactical gun case looks like or how it functions.

I'm working on that.

 

[Lynn]

I guess I just didn't speak plainly enough.

The average person out there, does not concern me, not at this time at least.

It is if and/or when, you get pulled over for a tail light out or what ever, and the local gendarmes spot what they darn well know is a tactical carry bag, or a plain-jane bag for that matter, that the fun really starts. Depending on what kind of day, week month or life, a LEO is having or has had, things can go deep south real fast.

You may be the most reputable, clean cut looking man or attractive woman ever, the right color and economic class too, who remains polite and cooperative as all get out, and yet they then want to check and see what you have in that rifle bag.

First they ask, do you have any weapons or firearms, sir or ma'am? Where are we going today? The range? What range? May I take a look inside please?

Now believe it or not, The Law of The Land now says that your refusal to consent to a vehicle search alone, is enough to get you detained (temporarily placed under arrest) and have even your pockets and or purse searched. If they want to find a violation, chances are very good they will. You would not believe, and neither do you even know, just what is or is not illegal these days.

Think that can not or does not happen? Not to good people like you at least. You're a VET. You have no priors of any kind. You are an attractive working class mother of three. You are obviously OK. Well, it does happen all the time, to people just like you.

Now if, and/or when, you next start grousing about "your constitutional rights", or you even respectfully and politely assert that you have such, you are then very likely to undergo much deeper scrutiny.

No I am not a "cop hater", not by a long shot, and so please don't accuse me of that. Then again there are LEOs and there are cops.

Many cops, not just a few bad apples, but many of those who are local state and federal, have absolutely no regard for any of us, nor The Law and that, to them, pesky US Constitution.

Now you may be just fine in court, later on, but you may at the very least loose time in jail waiting to make bail. Or if you are broke at the time, you can wait in a cold dirty jail cell, a whole lot longer for even arraignment, let alone a trial, than "the law" or the "constitution" or even common decency says you should ever have to, in a free society.

Your guilt or innocence, and certainly your intent even if you have unknowingly violated the law, often means nothing at all, and your naive assumption, that such do matter, can end up costing you very very dearly.

So myself, I keep the letter, and knowing how vague and complex laws usually are, I know that is often not enough. So I pray.

If it can be misconstrued and paranoid assumptions can be made by those who are the most highly 'sensitized', to anything that "may indicate" one is a lawbreaker let alone a criminal, or a domestic terrorist and/or a domestic insurgent, such very well may occur.

That is life today as it really is. I don't give a fig, about the naive presumptions regarding such things, made by so many people. It is a very different world now. Far too many, think that "security" and civil order, matters far more than freedom and the civil rights that go hand in hand with liberty.

The gun hysteria I spoke of earlier, is far from uncommon among Judges, Law Enforcement and law makers, and sheer and utter, unrestrained hare brained slobbering full blown hysteria among the public at large, is always just a Presidential Press Conference away. We are in the mess we are in, because people believe what they are told by authority, and your personal belief to the contrary does not change that obvious fact of history. I deeply and sincerely, wish it were not so, and I would be delighted to learn i am wrong. I know far better than that though.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

It is if and/or when, you get pulled over for a tail light out or what ever, and the local gendarmes spot what they darn well know is a tactical carry bag, or a plain-jane bag for that matter, that the fun really starts. Depending on what kind of day, week month or life, a LEO is having or has had, things can go deep south real fast.

You may be the most reputable, clean cut looking man or attractive woman ever, the right color and economic class too, who remains polite and cooperative as all get out, and yet they then want to check and see what you have in that rifle bag.

First they ask, do you have any weapons or firearms, sir or ma'am? Where are we going today? The range? What range? May I take a look inside please?

Now believe it or not, The Law of The Land now says that your refusal to consent to a vehicle search alone, is enough to get you detained (temporarily placed under arrest) and have even your pockets and or purse searched. If they want to find a violation, chances are very good they will. You would not believe, and neither do you even know, just what is or is not illegal these days.

I almost always have a loaded firearm in whatever vehicle I'm driving or riding. So.... when I get pulled over I produce my Drivers License and CCW permit, and immediately advise the officer I have a loaded firearm(s) in the vehicle or upon my person regardless if in open sight or not. The officer would NEVER have to ask first.

Upon my informing the officer of having a loaded firearm, the response has always began with 'thank you...'. I have never been asked why, what, where or anything of the kind. Perhaps one day I will meet up with a jerk in a uniform, but my approach will always be the same. Comply, smile and be polite.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

ps. Lynn, this kinda stuff belongs in the Lounge, not in Long Guns. Over and Out.

 

[Lynn]

Apples and oranges. I said nothing about hand guns.

 

[Thomas_H]

My last reply on this thread.

Lynn,

What I was trying to get at with my earlier reply is you are falling into the trap that the anti gunners have set up for you. They want to make you out to be some kind of socially unacceptable social devient. They want you/us to become reclusive. To go hide our hobby where others can't see it. To denormalize the gun culture, and marginalize us as some kind of wackos. Again, there in no mass hysteria. There is hoever, a coordinated campaign to turn the perception of a gun owner as a lunitic on who could snap at any minute. There is nothing hysterical about the methods that the anti rights crowd use. It is a cold calculated methodical plan of action. You cannot properly defend your rights from attack without understanding the standard MO, and in turn anticipating their next move.

I'm not saying that we don't need to worry about gun owner's image. Your image as a gun owner has nothing to do with what firearm you are carrying. An AR is no different than any other firearm. If someone thinks it looks offensive, then it's our job to educate an innoculate them. Not hide it away so someone won't get the wrong impression. Otherwise you have already lost the battle.

And to the OP, sorry about the thread hijack. I hope all your questions were answered to your satasfaction.

 

[Lynn]

My last reply on this thread.

Lynn,

What I was trying to get at with my earlier reply is you are falling into the trap that the anti gunners have set up for you.

Let's see if that holds up to critical analysis.

Read my entire response, and think about what I about to say, before responding please.

They want to make you out to be some kind of socially unacceptable social devient.

They already have long ago! If you, really cannot see that, then I doubt your critical thinking ability.

Those against having a well armed citizenry, have already painted us all as dangerous extremist potential crazies, on the edge of going postal, and they have for decades strongly reinforced the belief that only the military, the police and government agents should be allowed to have such guns.

They want you/us to become reclusive. To go hide our hobby where others can't see it. To denormalize the gun culture, and marginalize us as some kind of wackos.

Oh really? Let's examine that assumption.

I am sure they would much prefer, to show on TV NEWS huge gatherings of semiautomatic gun owners, with many tables holding literature and lots of booths displaying tactical accessories for them to misrepresent, and of course lots of people range shooting nearby, in rapid fire, would really serve their agenda.

No matter how orderly, legal, safe and patriotic such a gathering would be, it would be even subtly misrepresented and bent to serve the Anti Second Amendment agenda. It goes without saying, that those I have seen on TV NEWS openly carrying AR 15s, like that guy at one of Obama's speeches recently, are certainly not helping us. That sort of stupidity sure helps them though. That is why it was shown on ever TV NEWS show there is.

Our, wise discretion, is the last thing our foes want.

Again, there in no mass hysteria.

Just repeating something I did not say, as if I did, wont make the folks here believe I said it. I think you underestimate their intelligence.

I did not say there is presently public mass hysteria about this. Not conscious overt hysteria anyway. No, not yet, but it wouldn't take much, and you darn well know it.

I said, the public is primmed and ready for it, and using the media, those who want us all disarmed, can easily trigger it to their advantage.

There is hoever, a coordinated campaign to turn the perception of a gun owner as a lunitic on who could snap at any minute.

Once again, that is just what I have been saying all along, Thomas. You knew that though.

There is nothing hysterical about the methods that the anti rights crowd use. It is a cold calculated methodical plan of action.

Obviously that is exactly, what I have been saying all along, as if you didn't know, and obviously I want folks here to be aware of these things.

I know many here are already aware. Just in case though I reiterate these things. It is imperative that we fully understand, by becoming consciously aware of the many overt and covert, heavy handed and subtle, tactics used by our foes.

You cannot properly defend your rights from attack without understanding the standard MO, and in turn anticipating their next move.

There you go again. I have been saying this all along.

hmmm .... I wonder why you keep doing that?

I'm not saying that we don't need to worry about gun owner's image.

I am saying that worry wont help us. In fact I have not tried to make anyone "worry" about anything.

You are trying to reframe my words to make it appear as though I have. How subtle of you, Thomas. That is a basic NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) tool called reframing, and it is used by The Media daily. It is also used by governments, all over the world, to manage the perceptions of their subjects, er, citizens.

NLP Reframing - Slight Of Mouth Patterns For The Modern Jedi

I am giving a heads up, making people aware of where we stand, in a manner which is outside the controlled and subtly manipulated context, that is tactically used by the media against us.

Your image as a gun owner has nothing to do with what firearm you are carrying.

That is sheer nonsense, being so obviously contrary to common sense, I doubt very much that you believe it either.

An AR is no different than any other firearm.

That is like saying, an old beater, is no different than a brand new Corvette.

Even if your assertion, were objectively correct, the media has been for decades used to nullify it.

In the eyes of law enforcement and the military etc., and yes you better believe it the public as well, good (docile unquestioning compliant) citizens would never even want an "evil black rifle", because the Media has so long been repetitively and relentlessly telling us so.

If someone thinks it looks offensive, then it's our job to educate an innoculate them. Not hide it away so someone won't get the wrong impression. Otherwise you have already lost the battle.

It is not that simple, and it is certainly not that easy either.

The public and Law Enforcement and The Military, have by the media and the educational system etc., already long been "inoculated" (emotionally conditioned) or "sensitized", and they all continue to be very strongly and deeply "inoculated" on a daily basis.

People of all walks of life have been deeply "sensitized", to associate anything that even looks like an "evil black rifle", with crazies going postal, violent criminals and even 'potential' extremists and/or terrorists. Hey, I saw it on TV! It has to be true! They have at the same time been conditioned, all their lives, to think that only the military and law enforcement have any legitimate reason to have them.

So clearly neither you nor I or anyone else, is going to undo all of that conditioning, by openly displaying such weapons before those who are so deeply sensitized. It is not that easy.

And to the OP, sorry about the thread hijack. I hope all your questions were answered to your satasfaction.

By the way. I am the OP.