Navy Men: What's a Bo'sun?

[Skeetr57]

I was in the Army, and my first exposure to the US Navy and some of its unique ways and traditions came when I attended EOD school, which is run by the Navy for all services. During my last assignment before I retired in 1986, I was in charge of a training division of an Army school that included Army, Navy Air Force and Marine students and staff. The senior Navy man present was a Warrant Officer Grade 4, who was informally addressed as Gunner. At that time, EOD was not a rating in the Navy, so all personnel carried their original rating in spite of being assigned full time to EOD duties and being SCUBA qualified divers. That meant that for promotion, they had to be tested in a rating that they had not worked in for years. Graduation certificates had the name and rank abbreviation on them, such as BM3, GM4 or whatever. I could decipher the older abbreviations as they were pretty clear, but some of the newer rating abbreviations were beyond me, so I went to the Gunner for assistance in interpreting them, but he couldn't help either, so we had the certificates changed to just show the rank without the rating. One of the Navy guys had previously been stationed with the EOD unit at Pearl Harbor, and one of their duties was diving on the wrecks remaining from WWII, including the USS Arizona to remove explosive items that are found. He had technical drawings on his office wall showing the Arizona as it sits today. They were interesting as they show that the gun turrets are missing, as well as the bridge superstructure and the damage inflicted that sank her..

 

[Delos]

My failing memory - gun turrets on a sinking ship

I was in the Army, and my first exposure to the US Navy and some of its unique ways and traditions came when I attended EOD school, which is run by the Navy for all services. During my last assignment before I retired in 1986, I was in charge of a training division of an Army school that included Army, Navy Air Force and Marine students and staff. The senior Navy man present was a Warrant Officer Grade 4, who was informally addressed as Gunner. At that time, EOD was not a rating in the Navy, so all personnel carried their original rating in spite of being assigned full time to EOD duties and being SCUBA qualified divers. That meant that for promotion, they had to be tested in a rating that they had not worked in for years. Graduation certificates had the name and rank abbreviation on them, such as BM3, GM4 or whatever. I could decipher the older abbreviations as they were pretty clear, but some of the newer rating abbreviations were beyond me, so I went to the Gunner for assistance in interpreting them, but he couldn't help either, so we had the certificates changed to just show the rank without the rating. One of the Navy guys had previously been stationed with the EOD unit at Pearl Harbor, and one of their duties was diving on the wrecks remaining from WWII, including the USS Arizona to remove explosive items that are found. He had technical drawings on his office wall showing the Arizona as it sits today. They were interesting as they show that the gun turrets are missing, as well as the bridge superstructure and the damage inflicted that sank her..

Gun turrets missing? I forgot what I once read on that issue. Whether it was the explosion inside the ship or the tilting of the ship as it sinks?
The Japanese did a lot of planning and developing new weapons for the attack on Pearl. I have forgotten how many aircraft carriers (the new rulers of the sea then) were used against Pearl Harbor and how many hundred airplanes.
I was curious about the new armor piercing bombs they developed to penetrate our ships armored decks. And their use of miniature submarines for that attack.

It is possible I suppose, that the explosions inside the ship from the armor piercing bombs blew off the gun turrets?

It really bothered me whenever I later read the apologists claim we were the bad guys for using the atom bomb. We were trying to play catch-up and finally got ahead.

My favorite (garbage-lie) story was one claiming a radarman at pearl had seen the airplanes coming and warned the officers who were at a party and ignored it. Really silly when you read that we had to bomb enemy in the daytime because radar was not perfected until late in the war. Having radar meant you could bomb industrial cities at night. At one time it was a big deal for everyone to turn off their house lights so pilots could not find your city. After radar darkening a city was getting moot.

Early in WWII being a bomber crew was really dangerous, and submarine duty the safest.

I have also mostly forgotten the vacuum tube that made radar possible. Klystron Tube perhaps? I need to look it up. It was very top secret effort between our scientists and the English scientists. If I recall the tube had horseshoe like cutouts around the tube to get high energy into very small waves (or however described).
(Here we are)
Radar Basics - Klystron Amplifier

At one time I would joke that Henry Ford won WWII, and maybe WWI by inventing the powered assembly-line long before. But the engineers and code breakers played a big role. Everyone doing their best work at all levels made it happen.

And the very friendly boatswains mates I have worked with, and for, at times were probably well adjusted from all that fresh air and sunshine they get. They actually get to see the ocean as you cross it. (They would tell us lies about the lead seaman boatswain being the toughest, and anyone that could whip him became the new leader) (They obviously spent to much time around the marines who were out doing pushups on deck, or jogging around the deck).

 

[Fishslayer]

When I was crew aboard a Specter class patrol boat (PB-776 if you been there ) at COSRIVRON-1 I worked with a BM2 who had cross rated from EW (Electronics Warfare). He was country boy & went by "Boats." We actually asked his wife one time what his first name was. She said "Boats."

He said he got tired of looking at lines on a screen in a dark room all day so cross rated to BM. Ran into him a few years later when I was visiting the USS Ogden. He'd made BMC. Not really surprising.

 

[Cpo1944]

Some of the gun turrets and other salvageable items were removed from the Arizona . The 14 inch guns were placed in various locations around the Islands to use as shore batteries . Many other things were used as spare parts for the surviving / repairable ships. Nothing was wasted. I don`t know why some of the guns and turrets were left onboard, but I`m glad they were, else we wouldn`t have them today.
Some of her small boats survived as well I wonder what became of them?

 

[mtgianni]

In a related interest What is a Petty Officer? Like a petty criminal does he just deal with small time stiff? I do mean no offense to those who served but the literal meaning seems too odd.

 

[Kinman]

I was in the Army's Navy, our Bo'sun was the chief deck guy, he was usually a SP/5, top enlisted guy on the boat with exception to the Skipper who was usually an E6 and the Chief Engineer also a SP/5. The Bo'sun and the Chief Engineer were equals and ran different departments on the boat. On larger boats the Skipper and Chief Engineer could be Warrant Officers, the Bosun an E6 and he would have an equal ranked E6 in the engine room. Back in Virginia at Fort Eustis was where the Army had most of their boat training back in the 60's and 70's, probably still do to some extent.

 

[Delos]

Rank names and such

In a related interest What is a Petty Officer? Like a petty criminal does he just deal with small time stiff? I do mean no offense to those who served but the literal meaning seems too odd.

It just means he is less than the Commissioned Officers or Warranted Officers. As one rises in rank there are more to supervise. A Seaman in supply would only work for supply lead seaman or petty officers. Seldom would he have anything to do with Petty officers in another job rating.

Basically The Commissioned Officer of your division tells the Chief Petty Officer what extra is needed today. The Chief tells all seamen and petty officers at muster anything that pertains to all of us. The first Class Petty Officer is in charge of all equipment and each of his second or third class petty officers are in charge of smaller areas. As an Electronics Tech 3rd Class petty officer I was responsible to my 1st class petty officer most often, and the two seaman electronics techs working for (with) me kept all the High Frequency Transmitters working. Some Transmitters were in a room 13 flights of stairs above us and some were near either end of the ship just under the flight deck. We had telephones, intercoms, and sound powered headset phones for power outages. Each rank knows a little bit more about his job and how the ship works. But with a typical navy experience (tour of duty) being 4 years their is little time to teach the new and promote the older before most leave after 4 years, perhaps as 2nd class petty officers. So most upper rank is held by college educated commissioned officers or career enlisted men. They are the ultimate journeymen in their job field. (Short answer - an aircraft mechanic petty officer would never go to the machine shop and boss anyone around. Everyone stays in their job field). (Obviously rank is more about how much money you make, and how much responsibility you can be given in your trade).
A Chief Petty Officer is obviously a career man and really valuable (journeyman in any civilian field). Obviously a Chief Petty Officer Machinist Mate gets paid the same as a Chief Petty officer Electronics Tech, or a Chief Petty Officer Boatswain Mate.

It is not like the Army where all they do is go camp, play war games, and barbecue. (Oops)


My word processor dictionary reminds us Petty is a French word.
When the Normans conquered England they were at first French speaking. Many of our good words are French and our bad words are Anglo/Saxon.

Petty
4. subordinate: subordinate in rank or importance

[14th century. < Old French peti , petit "small"]

 

[red14]

I was a Boatswain Mate Striker and a Assault Boat Coxswain on the USS Thubin (AKA19) 1956-1957 My boat a LCM 6 ( Landing Craft Mechanize)

USS Thuban (AKA-19) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Made two trips to the Med and went into Alexandria Bay Egypt to rescue Nationals during the six day war with Israel versus Egypt. We sailed with the Six Fleet. The APA Chilton and Cambria and LSD Fort Snelling LSD 30 were with us all the time. Played war games in Turkey practicing Beach landings. We would pull along the troop carriers and the Marines would come over the side of the ship climbing down the cargo nets into the boats.

We would then move away from the ship and go around in circles with a group of five or six boats. When all troops were loaded we would go to the beach. Buy this time the 125 Marines in the boat would be sick as dogs some puking their guts out.

Deck force, chipped and wired brushed a lot of paint. Three colors in the Navy, Red Lead, Haze Gray and Deck Gray. We were underway all the time never in port for very long.

That was a long time ago.

Dad was a Boatswain Mate on the AKA1(USS Arcturus) in WWII. He said ''he was responsible for everything on the ship, and got credit for nothing''. His words. He also said he was the driver or manned the machine gun during troop landings. He was in five battles, and had the boat next to him blown out of the water on two different occasions. He participated in the invasions at North Africa, Sicily, Salerno, Southern France and Okinawa.

 

[therevjay]

OK I understand now what a "Bo'suns mate" is. But isn't the ships Bo 'sun something like a First Sgt or Sgt. major in the Army or Marines?

Also.

"It is not like the Army where all they do is go camp, play war games, and barbecue."

Damn it all! I knew they put me in the wrong Army! Like Goldie Hawn I was supposed to be in the Army with the condos, sailboats, camping trips and barbecues. ****! ****! ****!

 

[Badkarma 1]

Bo'suns, without them the Navy wouldn't function! Also there wasn't an "A" school for them either, they went straight from boot to the fleet. They know every nook and cranny of the ship their on.
Petty Officer=Non Commissioned Officer
Chief=God! Dale

 

[Nevada Ed]

Before I got to fly "Advanced Party" I spent a little time on the "White Russian".
First time I got out of the rear 5 inch, I noticed what the muzzle blast of this "Little" weapon could do.
There on the back bulkhead was a life raft with a full size protective canvas tarp cover................that after the practice, had turned into a peace of rags.
Sorry to hear of one of you getting the muzzle blast, just glad to know that you can hear.........I had one of my ear drums broken. Not a fun time.

I was sent to "Civilian life" for the rest of my hitch with the CB's since they were short a GM...............sort of missed the rocking chair "Rack", though.

 

[Frizzman]

Yep..Deck Ape...Primarily works with skyhooks and chow line...IQ and shoe size are the same...I was a Snipe...Machinists Mate(MM)...It was kind of a hot and dirty job and I wished I was on the weather deck plenty of times...I thought about being a Boatwains Mate but since I could read, write and count past ten without taking my shoes off, the navy considered me over qualified for being a BM...HAHAHA

 

[ISCS Yoda]

What a great thread! I'm glad I found it.

OK I understand now what a "Bo'suns mate" is. But isn't the ships Bo 'sun something like a First Sgt or Sgt. major in the Army or Marines?

No.

"Bos'n" is a "rating", not a "rank" (it does get confusing when rate and rating are mixed up). A rating in the Navy is similar to an MOS in the Army, a "military operational specialty" if I remember correctly - in other words, your job, the career path you're on that deals with the work that you do.

After that, as this gets VERY detailed, I draw your attention to these websites:

List of United States Navy ratings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Field 13 -- Field Artillery

There are plenty more out there. Just look for the terms "rating" or "MOS".

As for rank, well, that's different and very easy once you know but ever so hard to explain to those who don't. Paygrades in all services are the same. The names are different service to service in some ways and exactly the same in others. There are charts on line you can look for.

Always fun to read such items - great thread!!

***ISCS GRJ USN Retired***

 

[DWalt]

"I was a little impressed that our pilots carried small S&W revolvers. I was not sure what they were going to do with them out hunting submarines over the ocean. Maybe if they had to ditch they could shoot a shark or something. But they never know when they might be near an Island."

For Naval aviators, the revolver served two purposes - as a survival weapon for downed pilots or crew on land, or as a distress signal at sea - or both. Most revolvers were loaded with tracer rounds that could be seen for some distance at night.