NB we do not guarantee our revolvers when used with smokeless or nitro powders

[Askeladden]

Think i found this picture when browsing completed auctions at icollector. It shows that there's been a debate in the era as well.

 

[glowe]

If you think there is some debate about this issue today, think of the confusion almost 120 years ago when smokeless powder was introduced. The point is that S&W changed their position on smokeless powder a few years later without making any changes to their revolvers.

 

[DWalt]

I believe it's generally considered that this S&W position on smokeless powder was taken in the very early period of its use due to what lawyers term as an "Abundance of Caution." Smokeless powder was new technology at the time, had no history of use, and was not well understood.

 

[jetjky]

Wow, that is a beautiful gun. What is it and where can I find one?

 

[JSR III]

I may be slipping but what does the NB mean at the beginning of the claim?

 

[Askeladden]

*nevermind*

 

[Askeladden]

I may be slipping but what does the NB mean at the beginning of the claim?

It's like a caution or a heads up if you will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene

I believe it's generally considered that this S&W position on smokeless powder was taken in the very early period of its use due to what lawyers term as an "Abundance of Caution." Smokeless powder was new technology at the time, had no history of use, and was not well understood.

I agree. I bet some folks loaded their cartridges like they did with black powder and expected S&W to fork over a new revolver.

Wow, that is a beautiful gun. What is it and where can I find one?

It's a Smith and Wesson Safety Hammerless. Should not be hard to find one on auction sites or with antique dealers.. maybe you can find one on this forum as well. And yeah, they are beautiful.

 

[DWalt]

I may be slipping but what does the NB mean at the beginning of the claim?

It's Latin - N. B. = Nota Bene, meaning "Note Well," or "Be Aware."

 

[DWalt]

"I agree. I bet some folks loaded their cartridges like they did with black powder and expected S&W to fork over a new revolver."

I think that's part of the reason behind the stamping. If a reloader of that time got hold of a can of smokeless powder, not knowing any better, he might well use the same measuring scoop for it as he used for black powder, and with disastrous results. S&W didn't want to take any responsibility for that.

To this day, some gun manufacturers have language voiding their warranties if reloads are used in their guns. I know Mossburg does.

 

[Skeetr57]

In the early days there were two types of smokeless powder, "bulk" and "dense". Bulk powder was meant to be loaded with the same measures as black powder, but dense powder needed to be loaded by weight. Many shooters didn't know or understand the difference and loaded dense powder with their old black powder scoop measure, leading to blowups. Also lot to lot consistency wasn't as good as it is today, leading to other problems.
DuPont manufactured bulk shotgun powder into at least the 1950's and maybe later.

 

[DWalt]

"In the early days there were two types of smokeless powder, "bulk" and "dense". Bulk powder was meant to be loaded with the same measures as black powder"

True, but I think that the bulk powders were intended mainly for shotshells. At that time, reloading shotshells was much more common than reloading metallic cartridges. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the advent of repeating shotguns, most every hunter carried reloadable brass shotshells and loaded their own before going afield.

 

[twaits]

It's like a caution or a heads up if you will.

Nota bene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I agree. I bet some folks loaded their cartridges like they did with black powder and expected S&W to fork over a new revolver.



It's a Smith and Wesson Safety Hammerless. Should not be hard to find one on auction sites or with antique dealers.. maybe you can find one on this forum as well. And yeah, they are beautiful.

That particular gun though will sell for 3 to 5 times what one with a longer barrel will sell for. The short "Bicycle guns" always bring a premium if factory original.

 

[Askeladden]

Yeah i should have pointed out that the bicycle versions have a higher premium, but is it really that much?

 

[Jim Watson]

Bulk shotgun powder will overload a rifle and probably a pistol.
Long gone anyhow, unless Trail Boss is an attempt to return to those thrilling days of yesteryear.

 

[twaits]

Yeah i should have pointed out that the bicycle versions have a higher premium, but is it really that much?

In my observations yes. Sometimes you can walk into a good deal on them. But not on Gunbroker unless one is poorly listed and no one else sees it. They are really popular, with good reason. Rarity and they look so great with a short barrel.

 

[rhmc24]

Copy of S&W letter to me re smokeless in S&Ws.



S&W info included with the letter says they warrant their product when
used with factory loaded smokeless. Apparently they were concerned
that some reloaders might load by volume a la black powder practice.

 

[Faulkner]

In my observations yes. Sometimes you can walk into a good deal on them. But not on Gunbroker unless one is poorly listed and no one else sees it. They are really popular, with good reason. Rarity and they look so great with a short barrel.

My grandfather bought this bicycle gun at a hardware store in Memphis back in the '30's and carried it in his front pocket for decades, which is why the finish is all gone. I inherited it with a box of period Peters ammo with "KLEANBORE" priming which I assume to be smokeless . . . I don't suppose there is anything clean bore about black powder.

 

[Skeetr57]

Kleanbore was Remington's trade marked name for non-corrosive primers, and came about after the days of black powder factory loads.

 

[DWalt]

It's not the type of powder (smokeless or black) that makes it corrosive. It's principally the primer. Prior to the late 1920s, most commercial priming compositions contained chlorates. Upon ignition, these deposited chloride salts in the barrel, which attracted water and caused corrosion. U. S. military cartridges (with one main exception - .30 Carbine) continued to use corrosive chlorate primers until about the time of the Korean War. Modern priming compositions do not contain chlorates.

 

[JSR III]

It's not the type of powder (smokeless or black) that makes it corrosive. It's principally the primer.

Why is it then that flintlock rifles need to be cleaned immediately or they begin to erode?