Need help with .38 Lead

[Virginia John]

I have been loading for a few months and I have recently switched to lead bullets. I am loading for a Model 82 Taurus .38. It handles all FMJ very well, it also does .357 diameter lead fairly well. However, it seems to be having a problem with .358 diameter lead. It fires it just fine and the bullet finds it's mark but there is some perceived pressure blowback. I am loading 158 gr SWC on top of W231 3.4 gr. When the round is fired the expended case seems to blow back in the cylinder. When I have fired about 3 rounds the cylinder wants to lock up. Looking in the back space on the cylinder you can see where the expended case has moved back and is blocking the rotation. Push the spent case in and the cylinder rotates. The cases show no signs of high pressure. Could I be doing something when I am loading them or is the is the ,358 diameter bullet just too tight for the forcing cone and barrel? What can I do to fix this situation?

Thanks,

 

[arjay]

Thats a very mild load,below the minimum in one of my books..Normally the case slams into the recoil shield and goes back into the cylinder.Try some loads in the middle of the range and see what it does.

 

[Virginia John]

According to my data sources this is the middle of the range for 158 SWC lead and W231.

 

[arjay]

Interesting.My manuals are about 20 years old and show a max almost a full gr over your load and a min slightly above it.

 

[Virginia John]

I appreciate your attempt to help and don't mean to be arguementative but here is the data right off the Winchester web site. It wraps, so you need to read around corners.
110 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 4.6 948 12,600 CUP 5.5 1096 16,300 CUP
125 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .358" 1.445" 3.8 876 10,300 CUP 4.8 1071 16,900 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 4.3 826 13,300 CUP 4.9 934 16,300 CUP
135 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .358" 1.418" 3.7 872 12.500 CUP 4.7 1024 17,000 CUP
140 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 4.2 809 13,900 CUP 4.6 861 15,800 CUP
146 GR. SPR JHP Winchester 231 .357" 1.370" 4.0 773 12,700 CUP 4.5 876 15,500 CUP
148 GR. HDY LHBWC Winchester 231 .358" 1.160" 3.5 869 14,200 CUP 4.0 956 15,900 CUP
****158 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .358" 1.475" 3.1 782 11,900 CUP 3.7 834 14,600 CUP ****
158 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 3.8 661 12,600 CUP 4.3 779 15,900 CUP
170 GR. SIE JHC Winchester 231 .357" 1.450" 3.8 683 12,200 CUP 4.1 752 15,800 CUP

 

[Rule3]

The current Hodgdon online load data is:

158 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.475" 3.1 782 11,900 CUP 3.7 834 14,600 CUP
How are you crimping? Do you have a good heavy ROLL crimp in the cannelure (crimp groove)

Are you sure it's the base of the case locking up the cylinder or are the remaining bullets going forward and locking up the front of the cylinder?

A picture of your loaded round would help a lot.

 

[Virginia John]

Yes, I have a good crimp in the cannelure. Yes, I am sure it is the base. When I first noticed this, I took my fingernail and pushed the expended case into the cylinder and was able to advance the cylinder to the next round. At 1.475" the round can not go far enough forward to lock up the cylinder.

Thanks,

 

[smithnframe]

Are you full length resizing the cases?

 

[Titegroups]

Maybe the primer backing out and the cases not sliding back far enough to fully reseat it. If it were me and after close examination of the gun for other problems I'd load a few a bit hotter and see if that took care of it. I'd check charge weight and OAL also to make sure I wasn't off and overcharging also first. I wouldn't think the cases would bind on the recoil sheild. Just my thoughts. Cylinder end play?

 

[Virginia John]

Resizing cases full length. The gun works fine with .357 diameter lead and FMJs are no trouble at all.

 

[waho]

How clean is the cylinder? In mine, unfired rounds are pretty loose.

 

[RobsTV]

Besides loading data, is there another reason why you are using that amount of powder. Most 38's shoot +P naturally. Handloads dot com is a great sight to view load data from different manufactures as well as tests done by users.

What type of scale are you using and is it confirmed accurate? Or something like a Lee Dipper?

With an old 38 spl, I found the 158gr lead cast bullets shoot best with 4gr of w231/hp38. They shoot fine at even 4.65gr, but 4gr is a little more accurate. I would slowly increase the powder and see if it helps.

 

[alwslate]

Virginia John the Winchester web site you refer to is actually Hodgdon
data. They now market the Winchester powder line. For unknown
reasons they have sharply reduced Winchester's older data for 38 spl
lead bullet loads with 231. From my Winchester 2001 manual; 38 spl
158 gr SWC 231 powder, 4.0 grs = 12,600 psi and 4.5 grs = 15,800
psi. I agree with some of the others, your load may be a bit too
light. 4.0 grs is very popular and seems to cause no problems.

 

[rigrat]

I've been running 4.5 w231, 4.0 Bullseye and have tried 3.8 of AA#2. All are pretty good loads.

 

[SMSgt]

Are the outsides of your spent casings blackened?

 

[walnutred]

What you're describing sounds a whole lot more like too little pressure than too much. Like several others have said, if the crimp and OAL is fine I'd bump up the load a little.

 

[Virginia John]

Thanks guys. I will try upping the load and let you know the results.

 

[Rule3]

I would "scrub" out those cylinders also. Use a 40 caliber brush or something. Something is not "kosher"

 

[Virginia John]

Boosted the load to 4.0 W231 - same problem. Took the gun apart and saw why. When I took the side plate off, it looked like the trigger return spring was trying to walk off the post that holds it in. It appears that the screw that holds the detent for the cylinder lock had worked itself loose and that allowed enough play to allow the trigger to move forward slightly which allowed the return spring to try to work itself loose. Did a spring job (Wolff 10 lb trigger and hammer) that I was going to do anyway and everyone is now happy. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[noylj]

Never had that problem. The head space from the rim to the breech should be minimal and there should be no room for the case to move back and stay back. Have you checked the cylinder for play? Usually the problem is hot loads where the primer backs out and stays out and binds things up.