need load for .357 158 gr over Bullseye

[oddshooter]

It appears some folks want to go straight to the highest velocity or pressure they can safely get from a load combo.

I don't just start at minimum because of pressure concerns, but because of group size concerns.

I have consistently found that most combos of bullet and powder produce my smallest groups somewhere in the middle of the powder weight range, after I do my research for min and max. Handloading 5 combos, I think I've done it right when I have 2 near min weight and 2 near max weight; with the 1 middle combo showing the smallest group.

Accuracy is the altar at which I prey; not max velocity. And since each gun is a law unto itself, I see no other way than testing with multiple combos.

Prescut

 

[scattershot]

I like 4 grains, for about 1,000 fps.

 

[alwslate]

I like 4 grains, for about 1,000 fps.

In a 4” barrel .38 spl 4 grs of Bullseye might get you close to 900 FPS with a 158 gr cast bullet. In .357 brass you’ll be well below that.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I used to work and play in black bear country a lot and frankly they never worried me too much. It was big cats and bad people I looked out for.

I use a lot of Bullseye with 158's but I load them to standard 38sp pressures. For 357 I step up to 296, 2400, etc. I think Alliant's max load with Bullseye and 158 cast tops out at 900fps and I bet that's with a longer barrel.

 

[Forrest r]

I think Alliant's max load with Bullseye and 158 cast tops out at 900fps and I bet that's with a longer barrel.

A link to what I consider the best of the allaint manuals they put out. Starting in 2008 alliant started using the format they still use to this day.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant_2005.pdf

The newer manuals leave a lot to be desired. On page 42 of the manual in the link above you'll find 357mag load data.

5.6" bbl 13xxfps 158gr lswc 6.5gr bullseye

My typical plinking load for the 357mag is 6.5gr of bullseye and any 150gr to 160gr cast bullet out of 6" bbl'd 357's. Everything I've chronograph was +/- 1300fps.

While not a "hot" load by any means, it's extremely accurate and recoil is manageable in lite firearms.

 

[alwslate]

A few loads with Bullseye that I have chronographed out of my guns.

.38 spl, Federal brass, Win mag primer 4.0 grs Bullseye, 158 gr cast SWC = velocity of 866 FPS from my 4” model 10-5

.357 mag, Winchester brass, Win mag primer, 5.3 grs Bullseye, 158 gr cast SWC = velocity of 1012 FPS out of my 4” model 27-2

Same except 6.1 grs of Bullseye = velocity of 1089 FPS out of the same gun.

4.0 grs of Bullseye in .357 brass is below starting level in my Speer and Lyman manuals.

 

[mikerjf]

The Buf Bore is an impressive round; I’m sure it’s more than I could handle out of a 60. (Mine is a 2”.) Your approach seems rational to me - actual encounter results show that shots-fired against a bear almost always works, even for clearly inadequate calibers.

My 60/357 gets carried for gators, hogs, black bear, moose, cougar, and canines. Only really had a run in with a cougar (same one, twice) and didn’t have to fire the 1911 I had at the time... actually I was frozen with disbelief at having a cougar in my yard, where previously I’d run into raccoons, a beaver, and a badger, so maybe it was inevitable. Still, in outer suburban Minneapolis it felt unusual.

The outstanding thing about animal attacks, IMO, is that they ain’t shooting back.

 

[342ti]

I think Factory loads are your friend, in your situation. Load what you have for light-medium range fun/hunting round.

 

[BE Mike]

If available, I'd suggest nickel plated .357 brass. Less likely to stick in cylinder charging holes. I'm not a fan of maximum loads. I always like to stick with something under. I usually get good accuracy and performance. In your case a solid bullet is a good choice. You are looking for good penetration. I suggest oversize grips on that S&W model 60. They make a huge difference on ability to hit what you want.

 

[scattershot]

In a 4” barrel .38 spl 4 grs of Bullseye might get you close to 900 FPS with a 158 gr cast bullet. In .357 brass you’ll be well below that.

You are correct, of course. The load is indeed 4.0 Bullseye, but the velocity is 800 fps, not 1,000. I was thinking of another load that I use frequently. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Many moons ago I tried Bullsey in one 38 & 357 magnum load from a old M19-5 6" barrel.

After looking at the groups and the fps of these loads.........

I never wasted Bullseye powder again with the heavy 158 gr. lead bullet in the 357 case and only with the 148 gr target loads with a 38 case.

 

[John Hill]

I just checked their website and the 180gr HEAVY OUTDOOR load was available... Just an FYI.

Cheers!

P.S. Good to know you had other options and made your most reasonable choice. I was sincere when I said I was not trying to be critical.

I checked Buffalo Bore web site and they do have the Heavy Outdoor load. They charge $75 plus tax for 20 rounds delivered. WOW! They want $34 plus just for UPS shipping.
I don't feel that I would be able to properly place my shots with my 3" Mod 60 with standard grips. I would have to carry my 6" Python and don't want to use it for a normal daily carry.

I have only killed one black bear and that was with my 30.06 with 180 grain round nose Sierra. I've never had one actually threaten me and I hike all of the time. If given a chance they go the other way and want to get away.

I'm inclined to just carry my 1911 with 7 rounds of factory FMJ 230 gr with an extra clip of 6 rounds. If a bear takes all 13 of those and kills me, it just wouldn't be my day.

Thanks to everyone for your many comments and all of the advise.
John

 

[STORMINORMAN]

That's outrageous as far as the shipping is concerned: ammo is not a hazardous material, so why so much?

I never purchased anything directly from them: probably won't in the future, either!

Cheers!

P.S. Went and checked Midway and actually they had similar hardcast loads in 9mm, 45acp +P & 40 S&W, but none in 38 /357...

 

[BE Mike]

That's outrageous as far as the shipping is concerned: ammo is not a hazardous material, so why so much?

I never purchased anything directly from them: probably won't in the future, either!

Cheers!

P.S. Went and checked Midway and actually they had similar hardcast loads in 9mm, 45acp +P & 40 S&W, but none in 38 /357...

You might find something available here that would meet your needs: Please Wait... | Cloudflare

 

[STORMINORMAN]

You might find something available here that would meet your needs: Please Wait... | Cloudflare

Nice ammo. Unfortunately, there is not 1 round in stock in 357 Magnum...

 

[mtgianni]

I read 11 bhn, tumble lube bullets and think I would stop at the first sign of leading. That will be your indicators far more than velocities. If you want to push it, get a different mold and lube. When you do that you will also be better served with a slower powder.
I have several lee molds and the only ones I use TL on are in 32 long at 750 fps.

 

[sniper]

I want to load some 158 gr SWC cast lead for .357 over Bullseye. I don't have any manuals that address my specific need
Bullet is Lee #TL358 SWC
Lead measures 11.0 BNH hardness
I have plenty of Bullseye.
My Lyman Cast Bullet handbook 4th edition gives load for Lyman #358665 (Linotype) Starting 6.2 gr and max 6.9 gr.
Does my Lee bullet with my BNH differ much from this?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
John

Years ago, the reloading guru for the American Rifleman told me the go-to load for .357 and Bullseye was 3.5 gr.

 

[38SPL HV]

Sounds like the 38 Spl, 3.5 grs BE and 158 gr lead bullet is a classic…

I don’t use Bullseye in 357 cases, preferring powders as Unique, N340, Accurate #5 and True Blue for mid range to mid upper range loads. Magnum loads get 2400…

 

[Warren Sear]

...Actual high pressure signs like flattened primers do not even occur until around 70-80,000 psi so what are you looking for with 10ths of a grain at loads around 32-33,000 psi?

That right there!!! There are NO pressure signs within the range of pressures used in typical handgun cartridges, even magnums.

The first sign of pressure you will get is the top strap of the revolver hitting the roof.

 

[glenwolde]

A link to what I consider the best of the allaint manuals they put out. Starting in 2008 alliant started using the format they still use to this day.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant_2005.pdf

The newer manuals leave a lot to be desired. On page 42 of the manual in the link above you'll find 357mag load data.

5.6" bbl 13xxfps 158gr lswc 6.5gr bullseye

My typical plinking load for the 357mag is 6.5gr of bullseye and any 150gr to 160gr cast bullet out of 6" bbl'd 357's. Everything I've chronograph was +/- 1300fps.

While not a "hot" load by any means, it's extremely accurate and recoil is manageable in lite firearms.

That's an interesting PDF. It's the original printer's file used to print the paper manuals. I wonder how they got that.