Need more electrical advice

[oldman45]

I have four rather pricey but fairly old ceiling lights or vanity lights that contain multiple bulbs. These bulbs screw into a ceramic socket and a glass globe surrounds the bulb.

My problem is there is one socket on each of the lights that appears to have a short. I can wiggle the bulb and the light works. Let go of the bulb and it may continue working for a while or it might go off immediately.

My question is simple. Can a person (me) change the ceramic sockets out? If I take the bulb out, remove the globe and then disassemble the light, will I be able to buy a new ceramic socket to replace the bad one?

 

[dougb1946]

The replacement socket is available at most hardware stores. It should be an easy replacement.

 

[rags]

I concer and yes, you can do it! Turn the switch off and the breaker...

rags

 

[Rule3]

A suggestion. Find the replacement part first before removing the old ones. Take a picture if need be.

 

[Indiana George]

All good advice above ^ ^ ^

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

I concur with Indiana George!!!

 

[oldman45]

Thanks guys. I will go to Home Depot tomorrow and buy the sockets. Now I just have to find which breaker box has the breaker for each light. This house was built 18 yrs ago by a man that owned an electrical repair business. He sold it about 9 yrs later and I have been in it since. There are several outlets with reverse neutrals, no grounds and such as well as having dead outlets. The problem is there is a large circuit panel in the garage, another in a bedroom closet and another on the wall in the mother in law cottage but only one meter. Different lights are in different panels. The master bedroom is handled by the panel in another bedroom. The kitchen is carried by the one in the garage. The security system, night lights and a few others are ran from the panel in the mother in law cottage. There is a total of 42 breakers in the three panels. Way too hot down here to kill the entire power while working on the electrical circuit.

Thanks again.

 

[OKFC05]

My problem is there is one socket on each of the lights that appears to

have a short. I can wiggle the bulb and the light works. Let go of the bulb and it may continue working for a while or it might go off immediately.

Technically, that's an open circuit, not a short.
However, it raises the specter of an internal wire broken with age/heat that could short out against the fixture. Suggest you inspec ALL the wiring inside the fixture for safety after you are sure the circuit is dead off. Beware that they might have put the switch in the neutral instead of in the hot where it belongs. Check for voltage inside the fixture even after it is off. I use a small Santronidcs induction AC detector (like a fat pen) to make sure there is no AC on any of the wires, and it has caught many a dangerous situation.

 

[DeathGrip]

My problem is there is one socket on each of the lights that appears to
Technically, that's an open circuit, not a short.
However, it raises the specter of an internal wire broken with age/heat that could short out against the fixture. Suggest you inspec ALL the wiring inside the fixture for safety after you are sure the circuit is dead off. Beware that they might have put the switch in the neutral instead of in the hot where it belongs. Check for voltage inside the fixture even after it is off. I use a small Santronidcs induction AC detector (like a fat pen) to make sure there is no AC on any of the wires, and it has caught many a dangerous situation.

Never trust electricity to be off without testing it yourself!!!

Just because you can plug something in and it don't work don't mean it's still not hot.

I've seen botched wiring that can kill and I see it more often than I should.

 

[nushooter]

I am a licensed electrician in Maine. Make sure the light(s) is/are off. Remove the bulb that is acting up. Look up into the ceramic socket. In the center of the socket you will see the contact that makes connection with the bulb. 9 in 10 times, that little metal tab has been flattened from screwing the bulb in too hard. Try to get your finger or a thin screwdriver in there and pry the tab down a little.

From your description of the wiring, it sounds like there may be some reverse polarity in the house, so even if the light switch is off, there may be live voltage at the light. The best thing would be to turn the light on, have someone watch the light, you turn off the circuit breakers or remove fuses one at a time until the light goes off. The "spotter" can yell to you that the light is off.

As someone else stated, the wiring in the socket may be burned/broken and need to be replaced, but to check the center contact is maybe a quick, simple fix.

 

[Fkimble]

Have you swapped out the bulbs in the sockets that act up. I've seen the filament broken but still making contact. A little vibration or movement will disturb the contact or make it go back into contact..

 

[blujax01]

Long ago, I added "Qualified Electrician" to my list of oxymorons. You said the wiring in the house is bolloxed and all four of these fixtures are acting up?
It's rare that a socket goes bad. It's even more rare that one socket in four identical fixtures goes bad.
Over time, heat causes expansion of the wire strands in a splice and can loosen the connections. It's very common to find a wire has slipped partly out of a wire nut or is loose in the bundle if multiple wires are nutted together. When you inspect the fixture, look closely for exposed cooper conductors. Gently pull on the wires in the nut and see of any fall out. Tighten all wire nuts as you go.

Good luck!

 

[oldman45]

Have you swapped out the bulbs in the sockets that act up. I've seen the filament broken but still making contact. A little vibration or movement will disturb the contact or make it go back into contact..

Yes,, they have been swapped several times over the years. For some reason, bulbs in these locations go out more often than others in the same fixture. One fixture over a bath mirror has six bulbs. Three of those bulbs has not been replaced in the nine yrs I have lived here. I know this because the former owner used an off brand bulb and I only use GE or Phillips. It ticks me off that the ones with the bad sockets are the ones I have to change most often.

 

[oldman45]

Long ago, I added "Qualified Electrician" to my list of oxymorons. You said the wiring in the house is bolloxed and all four of these fixtures are acting up?
It's rare that a socket goes bad. It's even more rare that one socket in four identical fixtures goes bad.
Over time, heat causes expansion of the wire strands in a splice and can loosen the connections. It's very common to find a wire has slipped partly out of a wire nut or is loose in the bundle if multiple wires are nutted together. When you inspect the fixture, look closely for exposed cooper conductors. Gently pull on the wires in the nut and see of any fall out. Tighten all wire nuts as you go.

Good luck!

Maybe "bad" is not the correct term for these sockets. I will try to describe it in layman's terms as best I can. When the bulb is removed, the ceramic socket will be loose and turns with the bulb. The ceramic is brittle and somewhat chips off as it is being dealt with. Once back in place, the ceramic socket feels tight but has to be "jiggled" in order to get the bulb to come on. Sometimes it holds and some times it will not.

Not wanting people to think I am cheap to avoid hiring an electrican, I hired one twice so far. Each time they repaired a few outlets and once changed a ceiling fan out. Each time my charge was around $600. I tried to work out a deal with the electrical contractor to get ALL my outlets corrected along with any other electrical issues. Each gave me a figure of over $800 a day for one electrican and said it may take a couple days to get the basics done. The last time one was out here, he took about 3/4 hr per outlet to rewire each outlet. He was here six hours any got eight outlets done. That to me seems high. I have about 50 outlets in this house. Not all are faulty but it is adding up paying for few fixes.

 

[blujax01]

If the ceramic shell or the phenolic insert show signs of flaking, cracking or other degradation, it's long past time to replace them. Also, if the sockets are backing out when yo unscrew a bulb, the wiring behind the socket is getting twisted.
You will find that it will be much cheaper to change out the whole fixture.

 

[oldman45]

If the ceramic shell or the phenolic insert show signs of flaking, cracking or other degradation, it's long past time to replace them. Also, if the sockets are backing out when yo unscrew a bulb, the wiring behind the socket is getting twisted.
You will find that it will be much cheaper to change out the whole fixture.

You may be right but the fixure in the bath sells in the $250 price range. The lamp kit for the ceiling fan is only about $70. Then multiply this by four since there are four fixtures with the problem and it gets expensive and we are not talking about fixing the problems with the wall outlet.

Then again, I may just be cheap.

 

[enfield]

. . . .The last time one was out here, he took about 3/4 hr per outlet to rewire each outlet. He was here six hours any got eight outlets done. That to me seems high. . . .

You were cheated, IMHO.

 

[oldman45]

You were cheated, IMHO.

I share your opinion. Guess I can blame it on union labor and company greed.

The fact is there are about 70-80 houses in this subdivision ranging in price from $300-700K. Of those, six have burned down in the nine years I have lived here. At least five of those were blamed on electrical fires. It is my idea for the kind of money paid for these homes, they should have fewer electrical problems.

I figure the man that built this home for his primary residence would have done better in wiring it since he is a Master electrician and owns his firm. Maybe he wired many of the homes around here. I still wonder why he put three electrical panels in the house when there is only one service line coming to the house.

Paying an electrician to run wire, check wiring, rewire connections and such is not cheap and I do not expect it to be but I would think they could do more in the time they are here.

I was quoted a hourly rate of $80 per hour per man and a $75 trip fee. Those visits add up.

 

[handejector]

I am a licensed electrician in Maine. Make sure the light(s) is/are off. Remove the bulb that is acting up. Look up into the ceramic socket. In the center of the socket you will see the contact that makes connection with the bulb. 9 in 10 times, that little metal tab has been flattened from screwing the bulb in too hard. Try to get your finger or a thin screwdriver in there and pry the tab down a little.

Good advice. I have fixed many fixtures exactly this way.

Others made the point to check the wire nuts connecting the four bulb sockets together. Also good advice, but probably not your problem.

You say the fixtures are old, and that can be GOOD-
The wires on modern fixtures connect to the contacts in bulb sockets with rivets in most cases. The contacts are the tab mentioned earlier that is in bottom center of the socket, and the threaded shell the bulb screws into. Those rivets loosen over time from movement when you install/remove bulbs and from heat expansion. Tough to fix, but you might pull it off if you are very handy, assuming a replacement socket is not readily available. If a matching replacement is available, use it.
However, on many older fixtures, the wires connect to sockets with SCREWS! The screws will be on the back of the socket. They also loosen sometimes. If present, check for tightness. Don't overtighten and strip.

 

[DCWilson]

The fact is there are about 70-80 houses in this subdivision ranging in price from $300-700K. Of those, six have burned down in the nine years I have lived here. At least five of those were blamed on electrical fires. It is my idea for the kind of money paid for these homes, they should have fewer electrical problems.

And did building inspectors sign off on the wiring before the walls were closed up? If you have that many electrical fires in a single subdivision, and if there is evidence of non-code-compliant wiring in the homes that haven't burned yet, I suspect incompetence, corruption, or both. Incompetence can be addressed with a complaint to the state licensing board. Some guys deserve to get their tickets pulled. I also foresee the possibility of a class action lawsuit against the contractor or some of his subs. People who make money by putting other people's lives at risk deserve to have their careers and reputations ruined.

Caje, are you reading this thread? Even if this is outside your usual path of travel, I bet you know somebody who could look into it.