New 52 Help with Fitting Cases for Mag and Loading

[chiltech500]

Howdy,

Just rec'd a new 52, in that new because it sat in someones safe with not being shot after purchase. The mags showed little to no wear other that having been racked a couple of times.

The bad news is that the springs are weak and my loads stick in the mags. I have read from here and the High Road's reloading forum and taken folks advice but not as much as should be yet, i.e. the DEWC's are almost flush and roll crimped to diameter .378. I used Federal cases and measured a few and they seemed about the length suggested, about - .010 from the manuals. But still had problems. The cases seemed to fat/thick to move smoothly in the mag and my OAL was probably too long.

I will shorten to flush and make sure I have a good roll crimp but need help finding the right cases - I tried a bunch of Federals and they were not thin enough, tried a few Winchesters but not that much better.

Suggestions on cases and length of case. I do have a trimming lathe

 

[505Gibbs]

For starters - if it really did nothing but sit in a safe I really doubt that the springs have taken a set and are weak - IMO.
A slight roll crimp is all that is needed and case length should be no more than max recommeded for a 38 Spl.
You could try and flush the indide of the mags with brake cleaner and then blow them out well and then give their insides a light spray with Rem dry lube.

 

[Model52guy]

Hi,
After many rounds, I found the best results for my 52 is:
Size and deprime the case
Trim to 1.145"
( be sure to trim after sizing as the case will "grow" .005-.006" during sizing)
De-burr inside and out side case mouth
Seat 148 gr LWC flush with the case mouth
Put a light roll crimp

I use the same headstamp/ configuration cases for my 52. Just makes it easier when I pick up brass at the range to get all mine back. I find when I resize my own brass, it comes right back to the original length.
Regards

 

[gibekim]

It may be the mags

Both replys to your post are spot on correct. However, even the most consistent ammo will have problems in a finicky magazine. Model 52 mags, especially newer ones, are widely thought to be unreliable. I've had several. They are fixable. If the round doesn't sit high enough in the mag, the breach face will push the case slightly downward as is moves the round into the chamber. As the rear of the round moves down the mouth moves up and causes a feed jam. You need to do 2 things if this is causing your problem. First, lightly stone the inside sharp edges off of the 2 hook points on the top of the mag. This the area where the base of the round enters and exits the mag. Second, do this at the range, with calipers measure the width of the top opening in this same area. Then carefully take needle nose pliers and tweak the opening wider a few thousandths at a time, firing several test rounds after each adjustment. You will eventually find the sweet spot for the mag.
I trim my rounds to 1.145 but do not sort by head stamp. I can fire all five rounds in rapid succession in all of my mags with no problems at all. Even the ones with the plastic followers.

 

[H Richard]

I haven't owned a 52 for some time now, but I used to shoot one in competition, and never had any problem with mine. Crimping is critical to a 38 WC gun. My recommendation is taper crimp in a separate operation from seating. If you do roll crimp, be sure to seat the bullet completely flush and do a "slight" roll crimp over the edge of the flush bullet. In a discussion with Roy Jinks years ago he recommended trim the cases about .015-.020 shorter than spec, and leave that much soft lead exposed over the end of a taper crimp. This evidently slides up the feed ramp better. I did this and probably shot over 10,000 rounds with out a problem.

 

[boatbum101]

R-P cases are the thinnest . I too trim to 1.145 , taper crimp to .379 .

 

[chiltech500]

I find all of your information relevant since spending several hours examining my new mags, stoning a bit and testing numerous different cases depths and crimps. The following I find spot on since my gun and mags were unused and newer because I have the mags with plastic followers :

First, lightly stone the inside sharp edges off of the 2 hook points on the top of the mag. This the area where the base of the round enters and exits the mag. Second, do this at the range, with calipers measure the width of the top opening in this same area. Then carefully take needle nose pliers and tweak the opening wider a few thousandths at a time, firing several test rounds after each adjustment. You will eventually find the sweet spot for the mag.
I trim my rounds to 1.145 but do not sort by head stamp. I can fire all five rounds in rapid succession in all of my mags with no problems at all. Even the ones with the plastic followers.

I have found that the shorter round and a crimp at about .378 to work smoothly in the mag without having trimmed any cases yet. I could work those rounds up and down in the mag without sticking points (unlike prior)/ However I have not tested mag to chamber yet. That's where the above advice may become necessary about bending a fraction the hook points, I'm hoping to get away with not needing that.

I may want to ease up my roll crimp a tad because it's so aggressive that it will push a flush seated bullet below case mouth level when I apply the crimp. But I think this is irrelevant until I trim a set of cases.

 

[elpac3]

Ditto on the taper crimp. Seat your bullet case mouth flush. The 52 will do its best work with a HBWC. I use the Hornaday, 148 HBWC, seat case mouth flush then taper crimp as a final step. Never had a failure.

 

[chiltech500]

I have a Dillon progressive which comes with a roll crimp on the 38 dies, I wonder if they have a taper crimp 38 die, or could I get away with using the 9mm taper crimp?

 

[gwpercle]

First make sure it will shoot factory target ammo first.
It may be a reloaded ammo problem or it could be a gun issue, as it stands you don't know which.
The factory ammo will also give you an accuracy baseline for your reloads.
The model 52 is a fine target gun.
Gary

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

I HAVE FOUND THAT THE REDDING PROFILE CRIMP DIE MADE THE MOST ACCURATE 38SPL WADCUTTER 50YD AMMO. IT IS A COMBO TAPER AND SLIGHT ROLL CRIMP.

SWAGED 148GR HBWC, REMINGTON MOST ACCURATE, ZERO BULLETS CLOSE 2ND,HORNADY 3RD. SEATED JUST BELOW FLUSH

POWDER CHARGES, 2.7 GR WST OR 2.8GR BULLSEYE OR VV310. 3.2GR 231 , 2.3GR CLAYS OR TRAILBOSS

WINCHESTER OR FEDERAL PRIMER

WITH ANY OF THESE LOADS FROM SEVERAL MODEL 52'S AND CUSTOM PPC REVOLVERS FROM THE RANSOM REST

 

[chiltech500]

Thanks so much PPC, turns out I have WST, 231, VV310 and VV320.

I will buy this Redding die. My roll crimp station has pushed the flush seated bullet from the seating station to just below flush in some instances. This may be related to the case length because I have not sorted cases or trimmed yet. Based on what some have said I may not need to...

 

[H Richard]

For Chiltech500. Almost all dies will be adjustable in the loader. Just back the seating die out enough to keep the roll crimp from the case mouth, then add a Taper crimp die as a separate step. I use a 550 and there is no problem.

 

[garbler]

Both replys to your post are spot on correct. However, even the most consistent ammo will have problems in a finicky magazine. Model 52 mags, especially newer ones, are widely thought to be unreliable. I've had several. They are fixable. If the round doesn't sit high enough in the mag, the breach face will push the case slightly downward as is moves the round into the chamber. As the rear of the round moves down the mouth moves up and causes a feed jam. You need to do 2 things if this is causing your problem. First, lightly stone the inside sharp edges off of the 2 hook points on the top of the mag. This the area where the base of the round enters and exits the mag. Second, do this at the range, with calipers measure the width of the top opening in this same area. Then carefully take needle nose pliers and tweak the opening wider a few thousandths at a time, firing several test rounds after each adjustment. You will eventually find the sweet spot for the mag.
I trim my rounds to 1.145 but do not sort by head stamp. I can fire all five rounds in rapid succession in all of my mags with no problems at all. Even the ones with the plastic followers.

Good info here. I've had a couple of early 52's then swapped for a Clark mid-range and both wadcutter guns required tuned mags for best performance and on-the-line reliability. Before S&W was gutted all the 52's and 41's were fitted up and tested in the Custom Shop, ( BTW it was a real custom shop full of honest to goodness mechanics ), fired and test targeted. Gil Hebard talked years ago about sending the factory samples of your loaded ammo or giving them specs so they would tension and tune the magazine lips for the shooter.

Years ago the factory provided that kind of service since happy Bullseye shooters were great advertising. Then Steve Melvin arrived in the mid to late 80's and that kind of expertise sort of went away. I bought one new mag for my last 52 back in 1992-94 and it would not work with my standard loads which were loaded on my Star press using same Federal nickel brass and bullets -- no changes. Competing in three leagues a shooter soon learns from others on the line what works and what doesn't and the 52's and 41's made in the past 20 or so years have a history of poor reliability from what I've seen. They can be tuned and set up to perform admirably but they should perform to Bullseye standard right out of the box -- that is what they were made for

Good luck

 

[chiltech500]

Quick update, I was successful with my rounds without trimming. The crimp was adequate at .378 and flush mounting did the trick. I had stoned the hooks and around the top of the mags a bit. Won't know if good enough for accuracy till I mount a dot. Reading glasses and iron sights don't serve me too well anymore.